the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mantequilla, Nov 20, 2009.


  1. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Brian Mitchell vs Tony the Tiger Lopez II

    The commentary suggests this was more action packed than the first based on punch stats...but the quality of the punches from both of them were not as hard fast or crisp as the first fight which was vastly superior in entertainment value for me.

    Tony apparently sparred more for this fight than any other he had. He also supposedly trained to be in better condition, and his team reiterated that moments prior to the fight. However failing to make weight would suggest otherwise. He did look bigger but to me much slower and his punches were wider and looping and his performance while solid over the first half it still was not the equal of his first. He also seemed to fade in terms of condition and stamina after rd 7, where he did fine for 9 in the first one. Either age or the quality of his camp showed him to not be as sharp as he had been. A very sloppy Tiger

    Mitchell looked very sharp and jabbed better and took control down the stretch making sure the outcome was never really in question during the final 3 rounds. His punches looked softer and less crisp as the fight progressed which was disappointing as he looked much better in fight 1 down the stretch. Still he was much sharper than Tony down the stretch and at the end of the day this is the most important thing.

    The rounds are much closer than the official cards or mine which is 1 point closer than 2 of the official cards. But this time while close it was still a clear Mitchell victory!

    RBR
    1 Even
    2 Lopez
    3 Lopez
    4 Lopez
    5 Mitchell
    6 Mitchell
    7 Mitchell
    8 Mitchell
    9 Mitchell
    10 Mitchell
    11 Mitchell
    12 Lopez

    116-113 7-4-1 Brian Mitchell

    Partly I wonder if this is the end of a prime Lopez (although I don’t want to diminish Mitchell’s work), or if perhaps he just cannot adapt. Guys like Azumah have a rep for excelling in rematches, where Lopez seems to struggle with adaptable boxers like Mitchell Molina and Thobela in rematches.

    Decent fight but fell short of the excitement of the first encounter.
     
  2. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Tony the Tiger (Canelo Alvarez) Lopez vs Thobela I

    Wow, not sure about the cries of robbery? This announce team is terrible and incompetent at scoring a fight but they at least swayed many fans opinions. I think 116-112 either way is realistic but these guys were atrocious. Lopez was Canelo of his day. Every decision he gets is a gift. Having sorted through his career recently I have not found one yet that I felt was incorrect? Both for him and against him I have sided with the judges rather than the commentary? If you go by commentary Lopez is basically a Jorge Vaca level fighter lol. To me Thobela didn’t engage enough in the first half of the fight and reminded me of portions of Lara vs Canelo. Sure riding a bike is a great strategy to use when in a bike race, but not so much in a fight. I felt Thobela engaged more in the 2nd half and had him up 4-3 over the final 7...but the early rounds sealed his fate. And contrary to the commentary neither guy dominated or controlled the fight there are 6 close rounds 1-5-12 Lopez and 6-7-11 that are close tough to score rounds. The commentary called 2 Lopez rounds even hence their wide scorecard. I think 116-112 either way is realistic but this is again no robbery and Lopez continues to be haunted by the regurgitating of this false narrative. He fought a solid level of comp and deserves credit. Thobela was a good slickster who would learn from this in the 2nd fight which I will score next. I would love to have seen Thobela fight Mitchell, Molina or Azumah. His fight against Mario Martinez was a master class performance.

    RBR
    1 Lopez
    2 Lopez
    3 Thobela
    4 Lopez
    5 Lopez
    6 Thobela
    7 Thobela
    8 Lopez
    9 Lopez
    10 Thobela
    11 Thobela
    12 Lopez

    Lopez 115-113
     
  3. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Tony the Tiger Lopez vs Thobela II

    The commentary was certainly rooting/pulling for Thobela but were still very fair in their view of this fight. The 119-112 card was bad but the verdict is again correct IMO, but to me Tony clearly won 4 rounds (which is why I think the 2 116-114 cards were fair and reasonable!), you can’t convince me he only won 1 round lol.

    Thobela fought the first 4 behind a masterful jab. Tony is a decent jabber but early on he couldn’t jab with Thobela nor time Thobela’s to counter it. Tony adapts very well and weaves inside to turn this into some pretty good infighting. Thobela slows his work rate and gets away from his jab (or Tony won’t allow him to get off), in the mid rounds. Late mid Tony unleashes a beautiful body attack strategy from 5-12, taking away Thibelas jab. But Thibelas hand speed allows him to string together some nice combos along the way. I can see 8-4 Thobela or 7-5 Tony as fair Cards...that 119 card is bad though.

    RBR
    1 Thobela
    2 Lopez
    3 Thobela
    4 Thobela
    5 Lopez
    6 Lopez
    7 Thobela
    8 Thobela
    9 Thobela
    10 Lopez
    11 Thobela
    12 Lopez

    115-113 Thobela
     
  4. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Going through some Jesse James Leija fights right now

    Leija vs Nelson II

    This was a very fun fight. Leija seems to work much better right out of the gate andvwhile Nelson gives him some difficulty outside of the cut Leija suffered in rd 4 this fight was never really in doubt. Nelson seems to be leading up for one big shot but gets caught homself in rd 2. Leija corner does a great job with his cut and it never becomes the factor that it looked like it could. The point deduction from Nelson was bad, fortunately it didn’t really impact the fight except it might then be a SD for Leija. The 114-113 card is to close but the 8 pt Leija card looks just as bad the other way, Leija wins this clear but not 8 pts clear

    RBR
    1 Nelson
    2 Leija 10-8
    3 Leija
    4 Nelson
    5 Leija
    6 Leija
    7 Leija
    8 Nelson
    9 Leija 10-8
    10 Nelson
    11 Nelson
    12 Leija

    115-111 Leija
     
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  5. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Azumah Nelson vs Jesse James Leija III

    Leija does not look sharp right out of the gate and except for some flashes in round 4, just looked slow and tentative all night. Nelson starts aggressive looking for the big punch that he tried to deliver in the 2nd fight but was never able to. Leija gets a nasty cut in rd 5, and after Nelson controls 6 Steele steps in and stops the fight. As is consistent with Steele he seemed to stop it to early (unless the cut prompted him to?), as Leija was losing the round but didn’t seem hurt and was still throwing. Oh well

    RBR
    1 Nelson 10-8
    2 Nelson
    3 Nelson
    4 Leija
    5 Nelson
    6 Nelson by TKO

    Nelson 49-45 at time of stoppage
     
  6. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Jesse James Leija vs Azumah Nelson IV

    Nelson looks horrible at LW and looks even slower than he did against Pea. Leija gives a great tactical strategic fight and never bites on Nelson trying to lure him into his patented overhand right. Leija holds his left high all night picking off every one that he does not simply slip away from. Nelson lands some solid hooks but not enough to warrant giving him more than 4 rounds. Leija jabs brilliant quick with nice snap, beautiful midrange plan outscoring Nelson with speedier combos, and holds his own on the inside. Not sure about the punch stats? Looked like Leija was throwing and landing more but the stats show the opposite? I never did like or trust those stats.

    RBR
    1 Leija
    2 Nelson
    3 Leija
    4 EVEN
    5 Leija
    6 Leija
    7 Leija
    8 Leija
    9 Leija
    10 Leija
    11 Leija
    12 Nelson

    Leija 118-111
     
  7. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I watched the Lyle-Shavers fight again and was once more pretty bummed out about the picture quality on youtube. What a slugfest though!
     
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  8. oldcanvasback

    oldcanvasback Member Full Member

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    Antonio Margarito vs Paul Williams
    1. 10-9 Williams
    2. 10-9 Williams
    3. 10-9 Williams
    4. 10-9 Williams
    5. 10-9 Williams
    6. 10-10
    7. 10-9 Margarito
    8. 10-9 Margarito
    9. 10-9 Williams
    10. 10-9 Margarito
    11. 10-9 Margarito
    12. 10-9 Williams
    116-113 Williams

    Offical: 116-112, 115-113, 115-113 UD Williams

    great fight with lots of action. Williams threw 1,256 punches which didn't allow Margarito (who at this time was averaging 100 punches a round) to get his punches off. Margarito never looked hurt which is no surprise, he had a hard head. I thought Williams would run out of gas for sure because he wasn't just punching, he was moving around the ring, dipping under punches etc. An absolutely exhausting fight plan that worked to a T. Because Williams was a tall southpaw, Margarito's left hook to the head wasn't as effective as usual though he landed some left hooks to the side of the body. The rounds that Margarito won were rounds that Williams moved his feet less and Margarito's right hook counters up stairs (his best punch of this fight) landed clean. Williams looked mildy stunned a couple of times. I wonder if this was the only time Margarito faced a taller Welter?
     
  9. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I watched Foreman-Quawi again and was once more irritated by the latter's performance. Dwight Braxton in the light heavyweights had so much promise, and I remember my dad and I being excited by what seemed to potentially be the Joe Frazier of that weight class. His performance against Michael Spinks is what exposed him as not-that, and it seemed time and again he just didn't have the heart to be much of anything. I do realize the Foreman fight was after his peak (uhhh, if he had a peak besides winning the light heavy title). But Quawi was just disgraceful here. It was fun watching Foreman mop up, though (as usual).
     
  10. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Wouldn't it be more appropriate to give some credit to Spinks for fighting a really good, highly disciplined fight? That seems to be more the case than what you're describing.
     
  11. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Addict Full Member

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    It's true, Michael was firing on all cylinders and fought a super smart fight. I just wanted more from Qawi...I wanted Frazier vs Ali and I got what was kind of a snoozefest imo. After that I was never impressed with Braxton again.

    Trust me, I WANTED Dwight to be the light heavyweight Frazier. When he won the title I was thrilled.

    I never really cared much for Spinks, great light heavyweight that he undoubtedly was. A lot of that had to do with him legitimately beating my favorite fighter in their first fight, and then getting basically knocked around and winning anyway in the second.
     
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  12. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Addict Full Member

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    My favorite light heavyweights are Bob Foster and (sentimentally speaking) Matthew Franklin.
     
  13. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I think your expectations of Qawi are/were unrealistic. The narrative surrounding him was of a Frazieresque swarmer when in reality he was a counter puncher boxer stalker type. The media/public’s fascination with his physical build being similar to Frazier in that regard, pumped up the narrative even more. A shame Qawi is a great And shouldn’t have to deal with unrealistic comparrisons to Frazier
     
  14. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You're right on all counts. I think from now on I'll look at Dwight from that perspective when I watch his fights.

    To be perfectly blunt, however, I thought the Foreman fight was a truly miserable, ignoble, heartless showing by Dwight...it's hard for me to come back from that. But again, that's just me.
     
  15. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    You are aware that he was 35 and basically no longer the same fighter that he used to be? Having said that I don’t think (like Frazier) he was ever going to be effective against Foreman. I am not sure a younger/fresher Qawi would do better. But we need to remember he was a LHW 2 weight divisions up, and 35 near the tail end of his career when looking at this.
     


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