the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mantequilla, Nov 20, 2009.



  1. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Tony The Tiger Lopez vs John John Molina II
    What a brutal one sided beating. The crowds response of showering the ring was disgraceful! It should never have come to that anyway! Tony’s corner should have stopped this between 6-10 anyhow and spared Tony and the ref from this decision. Tony pretty much couldn’t see out of his right midway through the 3rd combined with the left eye cut in 6....he just couldn’t see to land or defend himself.

    Total shutout for Molina 90-81. I could see 89-82 if you gave Lopez the close 2nd round. But not sure how you can give him the 2 rounds the 3rd judge scored for him. Total brilliant one sided boxing display from John John
     
  2. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Tony the Tiger Lopez vs John John Molina III
    Man, this is a fun fight and while it will never overtake Taylor vs JCC in terms of hype or nostalgia I think this fight was much superior and has a case for FOTY in 1990.

    I hate the narrative that Tony only beat Molina because of home cooking or home town decisions. To me he won I & III and to take away from them seems a shame.

    RBR
    1 Molina
    2 Molina (Molina 20-18)
    3 Molina (Molina 30-27)
    4 Lopez (Molina 39-37)
    5 Lopez (Molina 48-47)
    6 Lopez (57-57)
    7 Lopez (Lopez 67-66)
    8 Lopez (Lopez 77-75)
    9 Molina (Lopez 86-85)
    10 Molina (95-95)
    11 Lopez 10-8 (Lopez 105-103)
    12 Lopez (Lopez 115-112)

    Lopez 115-112
    But man there are 8 closely contested tough to score rounds that I had 4 a piece, this is no robbery or hometown decision, just a great closely contested battle!!!!

    Check this one out
     
  3. oldcanvasback

    oldcanvasback Member Full Member

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    Just watched Ricardo Mayorga vs Oscar De La Hoya.

    Say what you want about old fishnets but he could really fight.
    Smart, strong and tough. Mayorga weighed 172 on fight night and looked every ounce of that while De La Hoya was coming off a nearly 2 year lay off.
    1. 10-8
    2. 10-9
    3. 10-9
    4. 10-9
    5. 10-9
    6. Ref stops bout
    50 - 44 De La Hoya.
    Mayorga always threw everything at opponents - low blows, head butts, shots to the back of the head. His fights always had a lot of action.
    De La Hoya was to smart and straight.
     
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  4. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Tony the Tiger Lopez vs Jorge Paez
    An underrated war, where both men dig deep and took it to each other all night. A fight that is much closer within the rounds than on my scorecard (or the official ones). The rounds are close but fairly easy to score I felt. I remember this fight live and was one of my most anticipated fights as a teen.

    RBR
    1 Lopez
    2 Paez
    3 Lopez
    4 Lopez
    5 Lopez
    6 Paez
    7 Lopez
    8 Lopez
    9 Lopez
    10 Paez
    11 Lopez
    12 Lopez

    117-111 Lopez
    Good fight to check out if you have not seen it
     
  5. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Brian Mitchell vs Tony the Tiger Lopez I

    2 of my favorites as a teen (and today) both get underrated or under appreciated in my mind.

    I really feel this is a close fight and that literally every round could be scored opposite of mine and I would not argue. I found this one of the toughest fights to score.

    Lopez- much better defensively than the narrative about him might suggest and he makes Mitchell miss a lot. He uses his jab very effectively for 10 rounds (dispelling another narrative that he is merely a limited inside body puncher), landing several in succession and follows well to the body. He also showed better counterpunching skills than I have attributed to him previously. He does a great job as Mitchell’s own jab became more effective in timing Mitchell and countering his jab with one of his own. He did solid work both leading and countering. He also to me landed the far heavier blows.

    Mitchell a brilliant slick technician. He is/was a brilliant defensive fighter both fundamentally and with head movement and reflexes. His ring generalship especially over the final 4 rounds or so was top notch. His hand speed and combinations caused all sorts of trouble for Tony. In the beginning Tony’s jab was controlling the fight and distance allowing him use his 4 inches of reach against Mitchell. But by the 3rd Mitchell would begin to utilize his own as his movement allowed him to slip inside. Mitchell is a better infighter than I have previously attributed to him. Mitchell’s superior/excellent conditioning allowed him to control the final 3 rounds. Awesome fighter.

    Awesome fight FOTY worthy IMO. Both guys struggled with swollen eyes, but were able to fight through that at a high level. And although it was Mitchell’s who looked worse it seemed to affect Tony more late. I felt Tony’s eye, late fight accuracy and poor conditioning left the door open for Mitchell to steal this fight.

    I know the popular narrative is that Mitchell was robbed and Tony got a home town decision. I hate that Pacheco started this false narrative after the first Lopez vs Molina fight (Tony won IMO) staying that Molina won the first 6 rounds...FALSE! I don’t think robbery or gift is fair to either fighter and felt Lopez had as much of a claim to winning as Mitchell and can see 7-5/8-4 for either guy without being upset or questioning it. Once again if you can get by the crowd/commentary biases and appreciate this fight and these fighters it is a fight well worth watching or revisiting.

    RBR
    1 Lopez
    2 Lopez
    3 Mitchell
    4 Mitchell
    5 Lopez
    6 Lopez
    7 Mitchell
    8 Lopez
    9 Lopez
    10 Mitchell
    11 Mitchell
    12 Mitchell

    114-114 Draw on my card and both guys fought incredible.

    I felt like Tony was controlling the fight and his jab and body work were mopping rounds. I had him up 6-3 after 9 rounds. But his conditioning and accuracy plummeted in the final 3 rounds allowing Mitchell to steal a draw. I don’t mean steal like he didn’t deserve it, but more that Lopez let this slip away.
     
  6. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Brian Mitchell vs Tony the Tiger Lopez II

    The commentary suggests this was more action packed than the first based on punch stats...but the quality of the punches from both of them were not as hard fast or crisp as the first fight which was vastly superior in entertainment value for me.

    Tony apparently sparred more for this fight than any other he had. He also supposedly trained to be in better condition, and his team reiterated that moments prior to the fight. However failing to make weight would suggest otherwise. He did look bigger but to me much slower and his punches were wider and looping and his performance while solid over the first half it still was not the equal of his first. He also seemed to fade in terms of condition and stamina after rd 7, where he did fine for 9 in the first one. Either age or the quality of his camp showed him to not be as sharp as he had been. A very sloppy Tiger

    Mitchell looked very sharp and jabbed better and took control down the stretch making sure the outcome was never really in question during the final 3 rounds. His punches looked softer and less crisp as the fight progressed which was disappointing as he looked much better in fight 1 down the stretch. Still he was much sharper than Tony down the stretch and at the end of the day this is the most important thing.

    The rounds are much closer than the official cards or mine which is 1 point closer than 2 of the official cards. But this time while close it was still a clear Mitchell victory!

    RBR
    1 Even
    2 Lopez
    3 Lopez
    4 Lopez
    5 Mitchell
    6 Mitchell
    7 Mitchell
    8 Mitchell
    9 Mitchell
    10 Mitchell
    11 Mitchell
    12 Lopez

    116-113 7-4-1 Brian Mitchell

    Partly I wonder if this is the end of a prime Lopez (although I don’t want to diminish Mitchell’s work), or if perhaps he just cannot adapt. Guys like Azumah have a rep for excelling in rematches, where Lopez seems to struggle with adaptable boxers like Mitchell Molina and Thobela in rematches.

    Decent fight but fell short of the excitement of the first encounter.
     
  7. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Tony the Tiger (Canelo Alvarez) Lopez vs Thobela I

    Wow, not sure about the cries of robbery? This announce team is terrible and incompetent at scoring a fight but they at least swayed many fans opinions. I think 116-112 either way is realistic but these guys were atrocious. Lopez was Canelo of his day. Every decision he gets is a gift. Having sorted through his career recently I have not found one yet that I felt was incorrect? Both for him and against him I have sided with the judges rather than the commentary? If you go by commentary Lopez is basically a Jorge Vaca level fighter lol. To me Thobela didn’t engage enough in the first half of the fight and reminded me of portions of Lara vs Canelo. Sure riding a bike is a great strategy to use when in a bike race, but not so much in a fight. I felt Thobela engaged more in the 2nd half and had him up 4-3 over the final 7...but the early rounds sealed his fate. And contrary to the commentary neither guy dominated or controlled the fight there are 6 close rounds 1-5-12 Lopez and 6-7-11 that are close tough to score rounds. The commentary called 2 Lopez rounds even hence their wide scorecard. I think 116-112 either way is realistic but this is again no robbery and Lopez continues to be haunted by the regurgitating of this false narrative. He fought a solid level of comp and deserves credit. Thobela was a good slickster who would learn from this in the 2nd fight which I will score next. I would love to have seen Thobela fight Mitchell, Molina or Azumah. His fight against Mario Martinez was a master class performance.

    RBR
    1 Lopez
    2 Lopez
    3 Thobela
    4 Lopez
    5 Lopez
    6 Thobela
    7 Thobela
    8 Lopez
    9 Lopez
    10 Thobela
    11 Thobela
    12 Lopez

    Lopez 115-113
     
  8. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Tony the Tiger Lopez vs Thobela II

    The commentary was certainly rooting/pulling for Thobela but were still very fair in their view of this fight. The 119-112 card was bad but the verdict is again correct IMO, but to me Tony clearly won 4 rounds (which is why I think the 2 116-114 cards were fair and reasonable!), you can’t convince me he only won 1 round lol.

    Thobela fought the first 4 behind a masterful jab. Tony is a decent jabber but early on he couldn’t jab with Thobela nor time Thobela’s to counter it. Tony adapts very well and weaves inside to turn this into some pretty good infighting. Thobela slows his work rate and gets away from his jab (or Tony won’t allow him to get off), in the mid rounds. Late mid Tony unleashes a beautiful body attack strategy from 5-12, taking away Thibelas jab. But Thibelas hand speed allows him to string together some nice combos along the way. I can see 8-4 Thobela or 7-5 Tony as fair Cards...that 119 card is bad though.

    RBR
    1 Thobela
    2 Lopez
    3 Thobela
    4 Thobela
    5 Lopez
    6 Lopez
    7 Thobela
    8 Thobela
    9 Thobela
    10 Lopez
    11 Thobela
    12 Lopez

    115-113 Thobela
     
  9. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Going through some Jesse James Leija fights right now

    Leija vs Nelson II

    This was a very fun fight. Leija seems to work much better right out of the gate andvwhile Nelson gives him some difficulty outside of the cut Leija suffered in rd 4 this fight was never really in doubt. Nelson seems to be leading up for one big shot but gets caught homself in rd 2. Leija corner does a great job with his cut and it never becomes the factor that it looked like it could. The point deduction from Nelson was bad, fortunately it didn’t really impact the fight except it might then be a SD for Leija. The 114-113 card is to close but the 8 pt Leija card looks just as bad the other way, Leija wins this clear but not 8 pts clear

    RBR
    1 Nelson
    2 Leija 10-8
    3 Leija
    4 Nelson
    5 Leija
    6 Leija
    7 Leija
    8 Nelson
    9 Leija 10-8
    10 Nelson
    11 Nelson
    12 Leija

    115-111 Leija
     
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  10. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Azumah Nelson vs Jesse James Leija III

    Leija does not look sharp right out of the gate and except for some flashes in round 4, just looked slow and tentative all night. Nelson starts aggressive looking for the big punch that he tried to deliver in the 2nd fight but was never able to. Leija gets a nasty cut in rd 5, and after Nelson controls 6 Steele steps in and stops the fight. As is consistent with Steele he seemed to stop it to early (unless the cut prompted him to?), as Leija was losing the round but didn’t seem hurt and was still throwing. Oh well

    RBR
    1 Nelson 10-8
    2 Nelson
    3 Nelson
    4 Leija
    5 Nelson
    6 Nelson by TKO

    Nelson 49-45 at time of stoppage
     
  11. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Jesse James Leija vs Azumah Nelson IV

    Nelson looks horrible at LW and looks even slower than he did against Pea. Leija gives a great tactical strategic fight and never bites on Nelson trying to lure him into his patented overhand right. Leija holds his left high all night picking off every one that he does not simply slip away from. Nelson lands some solid hooks but not enough to warrant giving him more than 4 rounds. Leija jabs brilliant quick with nice snap, beautiful midrange plan outscoring Nelson with speedier combos, and holds his own on the inside. Not sure about the punch stats? Looked like Leija was throwing and landing more but the stats show the opposite? I never did like or trust those stats.

    RBR
    1 Leija
    2 Nelson
    3 Leija
    4 EVEN
    5 Leija
    6 Leija
    7 Leija
    8 Leija
    9 Leija
    10 Leija
    11 Leija
    12 Nelson

    Leija 118-111
     
  12. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting New Member Full Member

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    I watched the Lyle-Shavers fight again and was once more pretty bummed out about the picture quality on youtube. What a slugfest though!
     
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  13. oldcanvasback

    oldcanvasback Member Full Member

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    Antonio Margarito vs Paul Williams
    1. 10-9 Williams
    2. 10-9 Williams
    3. 10-9 Williams
    4. 10-9 Williams
    5. 10-9 Williams
    6. 10-10
    7. 10-9 Margarito
    8. 10-9 Margarito
    9. 10-9 Williams
    10. 10-9 Margarito
    11. 10-9 Margarito
    12. 10-9 Williams
    116-113 Williams

    Offical: 116-112, 115-113, 115-113 UD Williams

    great fight with lots of action. Williams threw 1,256 punches which didn't allow Margarito (who at this time was averaging 100 punches a round) to get his punches off. Margarito never looked hurt which is no surprise, he had a hard head. I thought Williams would run out of gas for sure because he wasn't just punching, he was moving around the ring, dipping under punches etc. An absolutely exhausting fight plan that worked to a T. Because Williams was a tall southpaw, Margarito's left hook to the head wasn't as effective as usual though he landed some left hooks to the side of the body. The rounds that Margarito won were rounds that Williams moved his feet less and Margarito's right hook counters up stairs (his best punch of this fight) landed clean. Williams looked mildy stunned a couple of times. I wonder if this was the only time Margarito faced a taller Welter?
     

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