the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mantequilla, Nov 20, 2009.



  1. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Roberto Duran vs Esteban DeJesus II

    Another very fun fight! Cossell sucks as a boxing analyst but he is always excitable lol.

    Esteban is either not in as good of condition as the first fight or he punches himself out and gets fatigued or Duran’s inside combinations to the body wear him down or some combination of the 3.

    Esteban takes advantage of Duran lowering his right and finding Duran again off balance drops him for a flash KD. He nearly does so again in the 2nd 5th and 8th...Duran does this again in the 10th but his balance is better and either Duran shakes it off like nothing or Esteban just has little power to his shots now.

    Duran does a couple of sloppy things, but his overall skill chin toughness make it hard to exploit that. In multiple fights now he has issues with his right dropping it low and leaving himself open to counter lefts, and sometimes slow bringing it back. So far Esteban is the only one good enough to take advantage of it or exploit it. Ditto Duran’s foot placement and balance, where his aggression or movement leads him out of position and open to flash KD’s. He was not hurt by the left in rd 1 merely off center and Esteban used his momentum against him with a well timed and placed left. Again this happened in 2-5-8, but Duran was not hurt just off balance and did not go down. Interesting that Duran found himself fighting backwards and back to the ropes in 7-9. He did not look sharp in 7, but definitely looked sharper more accurate and crisper inside during 8 and clearly won those. During 9 Esteban forced him back briefly and scored nice, Duran is quality but not great backing up or back to the ropes. His punch volume is high, and what a motor. He does slow down in 5-6 and fight more from midrange. His midrange boxing skills are good but not great as Dejesus gets the better of the jabs and boxing. In 7 Duran again turns up the intensity and increases his volume as Dejesus slows down. By mid 9 Duran is being very patient and methodical in stalking but not overpressimg keeping his footwork clean working behind a solid jab, working the body and very accurate on his punches. In the 10th the writing is on the wall this won’t go 15. Duran very patient systematic and methodical stalking and cutting the ring off as Dejesus wants to circle and move rather than exchange. Dejesus is slow in his punching with wild looping hooks opening him up to more damage. In 11 Duran lands a nice right and his closing follow up is very patient. Dejesus chooses to stay down rather than absorb any more punishment. Good call!

    RBR
    1 Esteban 10-8
    2 Draw
    3 Roberto
    4 Roberto
    5 Draw
    6 Esteban
    7 Duran 10-8
    8 Duran
    9 Duran
    10 Duran

    11th rd KO Duran! Good fight and proves he is a smart patient finisher.
     
  2. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Roberto Duran vs “Guts” Ishimatsu Suzuki

    Duran showcases his excellence! Guts is a game challenger who shows his nickname but is clearly outmatched and out of his league and in over his head.

    Duran does little if anything wrong in this fight. He misses wildly in rd 2 slipping past guts off balance and open, but guts himself has stepped back and out of range and is not able to land. One slip in the aggressive finish of Duran leaves him open to catch a left hook but it does little damage.

    Duran just overwhelmed Guts! He starts patiently in rd 1 out jabbing and boxing guts who wants to box but offensively is out of range and defensively getting overwhelmed by Duran inside. By rd 2 onward Duran’s feints are making guts flinch duck and move, and his offense is wild and out of range. By 3 Duran is baking guts up with the jab and then controlling inside. Working the body hard. In 4 guts gets 2 deductions for low blows, and it is a much slower but still wide Duran round 10-7.

    For 8 rounds Duran continues outboxing and outjabbing Guts. Working inside off of the jab Duran is dominating every facet of the fight. Guts has a few nice sequences but not really any close rounds to even give a glimmer of hope. At the end of 8 Duran lands a solid overhand right, that wobbles guts but the bell rings before Roberto can follow up. The 9th is an onslaught with an aggressive Duran overwhelming Guts with volume who goes down 2 times more fatigue based. Personally the ref or his corner should have stopped it here. 10th more of the same....Duran volume overwhelms guts who goes down....at least 10 punches in a row and guts goes down again...another succession by Duran who drops guts with another barrage....finally the ref waves it off.

    Guts earns his nickname but his guts were the best part of his fight.

    Duran is pitching a shutout giving a systematic boxing performance and assault through 7 rounds...by 9 Guts has gone down twice and is getting overwhelmed. I understand he is a warrior and don’t expect him to quit, but the ref or his corner should protect him. There is little to gain from this continuing....he is 13 points behind on the cards and has no offense to show for it. His corner did a disservice to him and so did the ref.

    Duran really impressed me with his patience. He has great power when he is more patient and less focused on volume, and his accuracy increased...but he also can just overwhelm with sheer volume and variety.

    Great performance

    RBR
    Not needed
    Duran 9-0 in rds with 4 & 9 being 10-7.
     
  3. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Member Full Member

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    He was such a master. Back in the day I was at first unfamiliar with him but a fan of Leonard, so I grumbled some when Duran beat him that first time, proclaiming it a mini-robbery. All I had to do was watch it again to see that, indeed, Duran beat Leonard a little like Frazier beat Ali. It was a perfect example of what a malleable master Duran could be...stunning skills, Immortal.
     
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  4. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Roberto Duran vs Ray Lampkin

    I cannot say enough about Ray Lampkin (Duran too)! I know his name but have only watched him in this fight (twice), and no others. As his record implies he was not a great....but on this night he would be hell for any LW ever and over 12 rounds could hold his own against any great including Duran!

    This is an exciting fight, that I won’t breakdown too much! It was fought in a phone booth and was a war of attrition. There are 6 rounds close enough to score either way. Both guys had moments and sequences even in the clearer rounds. Great infighting and defense on display from both guys. Duran just gradually wears him down and lands dynamite at the end!

    This might be Duran’s toughest fight so far, and I think he is more at home here in a slugfest where toughness stamina and machismo rule the day. I think he thrives in other scenarios but I think this is him at his best even though it was close.

    A great fight but can be a bit dirty from time to time. Lots of grappling clinching and throwing and falling to the ground from both guys!

    Duran was great and won! But man what a performance from Lightning Ray Lampkin!!!!!

    RBR
    1 Duran
    2 Lampkin
    3 Lampkin
    4 Lampkin
    5 Duran
    6 Duran
    7 Lampkin
    8 Lampkin
    9 Duran
    10 Lampkin
    11 Duran
    12 Duran
    13 Duran

    Great knock out by Duran to end Lampkins great effort!
     
  5. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Julio Cesar Chavez vs Edwin Rosario

    This is Chavez at his brutal best, and while I know many don’t think so I believe he holds his own or beats any LW ever on this night.

    A great small moves up to face a very good big, and utterly overwhelms him from start to finish.

    The judges award 0 1 & 2 total rds for Rosario on their cards, I awarded round 4 but even that was close, rounds 1 & 9 were the only ones I saw close enough to not disagree if scored even or Rosario but the other 7 rds are clear Chavez.

    Rosario looks the smaller man and Chavez larger and stronger. The only real moments of success Rosario has was in moving and circling landing a quick flicking jab, but in most cases he missed or had little on them and was quickly neutralized by Chavez’s pressure.

    Chavez’s defense is off the charts good and his accuracy is spot on. In one rd Rosario throws 90 + punches and lands 30 (most of little substance) while Chavez is throwing 75 at a 70% land rate. The quick flurries and quick flicking jab were his only solid moments and they were few.

    Chavez defense is very underrated. Inside he is picking off most of Rosario’s punches with gloves arms and shoulders while in mid range Chavez is a hard target to find. Jabbing behind a bob and weave, good hip and body movement, but his head movement and reflexes are special especially on this night.

    Offensively he is great. Patiently stalking and effectively cutting off the ring minimizing Rasarios angles movement and escape routes. Methodically walks him to the ropes or corner behind a jab where he works a good blend of uppercuts and hooks to the body.

    Chavez was great and this night he may have been at his greatest?

    RBR
    Not necessary I gave Chavez 9 rounds and Rosario the 4th....outside of the Cabrera fight which I am doing next... not sure why I went out of order, this is one of the few times I have seen where Chavez wins rd 1 instead of just feeling things out.
     
  6. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Julio Cesar Chavez vs Rudolfo Aguilar

    Wow! Aguilar was a game challanger. I can’t help but think he would have been better served by waiting a year or 2 for this fight and having a slight step up in class prior to Chavez. Perhaps if he had already faced Ali and Fuentes prior to this he could have made things interesting. His team didn’t want to accept this fight after watching Chavez Rosario but Aguilar pushed the issue and the fight was made.

    Aguilar is a tall lanky southpaw, with a nice quick jab, good mobility and movement and fast hands. For 4 rounds he is setting the tempo of the fight by throwing a lot more, but Chavez is setting the range and stalking Aguilar down and landing heavier shots more accurately. Lederman actually scores 2-4 for Aguilar saying he is landing more...but both the punch stats and the eye test paint a different picture. Aguilar is throwing more but only landing at just above 20% while Chavez is landing about 68% and with much more power.

    Aguilar has fast hands but little power behind them, Chavez gradually wears him down.

    RBR
    1 Chavez KD 10-8
    2 Even
    3 Chavez
    4 Aguilar
    5 Chavez 49-46
    6th Aguilar goes down and the towel comes in, all over

    I don’t think Aguilar would ever beat a Chavez, but I feel like he took this to soon.
     
  7. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Roberto Duran vs Edwin Viruet I

    Maybe I am alone in this but this is a dreadful fight among the worst I have ever watched. But the crowd roared in approval after 8 and after the final bell? The commentary team was dreadful!!!! But if you liked this fight you won’t like my review.

    Commentary: this is one of the best lightweight fights ever.
    Round 5 this is the greatest LW fight ever fought in the metropolitan area.
    Round 8 this is the greatest LW round ever fought in the metropolitan area.
    Round 9 the finest fight ever in the metropolitan area
    Between 9-10 one of the greatest fights ever.

    Maybe I didn’t watch it right this was dreadful to me and I almost shut it off after 7 rounds but figured I had made it this far.

    The winner of the fight....the referee! Who was worse than Joe Cortez! He allowed viruet to clinch and hold without repercussions and the ref single handily stunted Duran’s plan.

    The judges scored 2-3-4 rounds for Viruet? I don’t know how you can score 4 for him unless clowning scores rounds?

    Viruet- a tall rangy mobile awkward fighter who was content to clown and run (literally! I mean he really ran and jogged in circles in multiple rounds), but outside of his jab had little offense. He clinched Duran and tied him up every time Duran got inside or to the ropes. The ref allowed this a neutralized Duran’s infighting.

    Duran- 1 I wonder if he trains and focuses for these 10 round non title fights because he was not sharp. He did a poor job cutting off the ring (although TBF it wouldn’t have mattered, as the ref allowed Viruet to clinch non stop inside). Duran’s jab and midrange skills looked poor and he was getting outboxed from midrange and outside where Viruet’s jab could land.

    I believe it was after this fight that Arcel said he knew how to beat Duran and there are flashes of SRL vs Duran II strategy used in this fight.

    The only thing Duran did was enough to win! Go ahead and watch it if you want! If you enjoy this good for you....if you think it is horrific, well I tried to warn you!

    RBR
    1 Duran
    2 Duran
    3 Viruet
    4 Duran
    5 Even
    6 Duran
    7 Duran
    8 Duran
    9 Duran
    10 Viruet

    Duran 98-93
     
  8. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Philly, I did these two just a couple of months ago, so they're still somewhat fresh. NY scoring on a rounds basis.

    Duran - Viruet I

    Round 1: Duran
    Round 2: Viruet
    Round 3: Duran
    Round 4: Even
    Round 5: Even
    Round 6: Duran
    Round 7: Duran
    Round 8: Duran
    Round 9: Viruet
    Round 10: Even

    Total: 5-2-3 Duran

    Very tough to score and one has to really pay attention to the nuances in the ring. Perhaps Viruet has that kind of style that doesn't jar me. I just felt Duran's heftier shots outweighed Viruet's flashy combos, but not by much. This was a very close fight and those swing rounds could go either way. To bring up a point that I noticed after watching the bout, I looked at the officials scorecards and Harold Lederman who does not score Even rounds, had it 6-3-1 for Duran. An Even round from Harold??? Damn, that had to be close.

    Dejesus - Viruet

    Round 1: Dejesus
    Round 2: Viruet
    Round 3: Even
    Round 4: Dejesus
    Round 5: Dejesus
    Round 6: Dejesus
    Round 7: Even
    Round 8: Viruet
    Round 9: Dejesus
    Round 10: Dejesus

    Total: 6-2-2 Dejesus

    It was controversial at the time and after watching it I see why. It really depends on what you're looking for, but in this fight what makes it difficult is that for 10 rounds Dejesus does a lot of missing and Viruet fights a somewhat negative fight, so one is left weighing who actually did more. I felt very comfortable on my verdict, but I can see how it could be subjective on how you score.
     
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  9. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Appreciate your thoughts and scorecards. I have Dejesus vs Viruet and Dejesus vs Mamby on my radar to score in the next week or so.
     
  10. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Roberto Duran vs Leonicio Ortiz

    Now this was a fun fight to watch!

    Ortiz presents a tough puzzle for Duran to solve. Ortiz has the southpaw style that gives Duran some trouble early on and his straight right should have been used more and more effectively, but in the end it didn’t matter. Ortiz has a really nice tight defense, and makes Duran work hard and throw with a lot of volume to land and be effective. Ortiz keeps his hands high and his elbows tight inside making it difficult for Duran to land anything of substance. As the fight progresses Ortiz slows down, and Duran does not. Duran sweeps the mud rounds on sheer volume and lack of firing back from Ortiz, but Ortiz is still making him work hard to land clear shots. Between 8-14 Duran is able to land better more consistent shots and hurts Ortiz in 3 separate rounds but all close to the bell where he can’t finish Ortiz off. Duran seems to coast in 12-13 and/or Ortiz gets a second wind...I think it was more of Duran just being patient and aware that he was ahead and believing it was a matter of time, rather than a real momentum shirt towards Ortiz. But either way Ortiz fights tough in 12-13.

    By the 14th Duran is teeing off. Ortiz still has nice tight D that Duran has trouble cracking but late in the round he does. Ortiz is a little more open on defense and his elbows are no longer tight to his body. Ortiz just isn’t throwing enough although he certainly has good sequences in most rounds. The 15th is more of the same and while I don’t know how the judges had it, it looks like Duran Ortiz will go to the cards and Duran comfortably ahead on mine.

    With 38 seconds left Tom Berkshire tells the audience don’t go anywhere this is going to the cards and they will be tight. 10 seconds later Duran drops Ortiz with a great right uppercut and it’s all over.

    RBR
    1 Duran
    2 Ortiz
    3 Ortiz
    4 Ortiz
    5 Duran
    6 Duran
    7 Duran
    8 Duran
    9 Duran
    10 Duran
    11 Duran
    12 Ortiz
    13 Even
    14 Duran

    Duran 136-131 at the time of stoppage in the 15th.
     
  11. Jel

    Jel Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Just rewatched this based on the Chavez v Duran thread. I had it a shutout for Chavez although it was competitive for the first 6 rounds but Chavez was relentless in his pressure. The difference between Duran and Chavez in the way they apply pressure is interesting. You can feel the intensity coming from Duran even when he's stalking. Chavez is implacable but cool with it - always intelligent pressure and wastes very few punches. Duran sets up his attacks with lots of feints before teeing off, Chavez creates his attacks in this fight by well timed counter jabs that allow him to close the distance and then work the body. He keeps Rosario in place against the ropes using his elbows and shoulders (but legally) to create a barrier from escape. So once Rosario is there he's forced to stay fighting with his back against the ropes - big mistake. Rosario didn't fight badly, he just couldn't sustain the pace that Chavez set and was gradually worn down.

    I thought Richard Steele's stoppage was excellent. The 8th, 9th and 10th were big Chavez rounds but it was round 11 you could see that the only thing keeping El Chapo up was his heart.

    Great performance by JCC. I wished he'd stayed at lightweight for longer.
     
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  12. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Jim Watt vs. Sean O'Grady

    Round 1: 10-10 Even
    Round 2: 10-9 Watt
    Round 3: 10-9 Watt
    Round 4: 10-9 O'Grady
    Round 5: 10-9 Watt
    Round 6: 10-9 O'Grady
    Round 7: 10-9 Watt
    Round 8: 10-10 Even
    Round 9: 10-9 O'Grady
    Round 10: 10-9 Watt
    Round 11: 10-9 Watt
    Round 12: TKO win for Watt

    Total through 11 completed rounds: 107-104 Watt

    It was a shame in the manner that this bout was stopped. After the 9th it looked like the handwriting was on the wall with the amount of damage O'Grady inflicted on Watt. But that is boxing. The ref should have taken a stern stance and at least warned them about the heads. This is going to happen when you get a southpaw with a right-hander, but he didn't appear to be a strong official.
     
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  13. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Rafael Marquez vs Israel Vazquez 1-4

    Decided to revisit this great trilogy! The 4th fight I wished hadn’t happened and I am glad number 5 didn’t come off.

    These guys were just made for each other! Their styles different but blend seemless for a great contrast of 2 determined guys. I feel this is on par with any of the greatest trilogies ever.

    Marquez the more skilled boxer Vazquez the more punishing hitter. Marquez the quicker and better at creating angles and Vazquez continuously stalking and relentlessly tirelessly pushing Marquez to his limit. Both limited defensively creating multiple attack opportunities and both guys delivered!

    I thought fight one was the best, and then 2 and then 3 with 4 not really worth another rewatch in my lifetime.

    Fight I RBR
    1 Marquez
    2 Marquez
    3 Vazquez 10-8
    4 Marquez
    5 Marquez
    6 Marquez
    7 Even
    Vazquez retires on his stool before round 8 with Marquez up on my card 68-65 at the time of stoppage

    Fight II RBR
    1 Marquez
    2 Vazquez
    3 Even
    4 Marquez
    5 Vazquez
    Vazquez knocks Marquez down and has him in a bad spot when the ref stops it. I felt the stoppage was premature and disappointing. Not sure the result would change but I felt like us fans and both fighters deserved to find out. I had it even 48-48 after 5 with Vazquez on his way to a 10-8 or potentially a 10-7 round at stoppage.

    Fight III RBR
    The only decision fight and a close controversial one that neither guy deserved to lose. Marquez would lose a pt in rd 10, that the ref had warned him about low blows and made a justifiable decision...a shame that without that this would have been a draw. A draw would probably be more fair even though I had Marquez by a pt.

    1 Marquez
    2 Marquez
    3 Marquez
    4 Marquez 10-8
    5 Marquez
    6 Vazquez
    7 Marquez
    8 Vazquez
    9 Vazquez
    10 Marquez 9-9 with deduction
    11 Vazquez
    12 Vazquez 10-8
    Marquez 113-112 on my card
    Outside of the 4 & 12th every other rd was close enough to be scored even or towards the other guy. 2 judges had it 114-111 for each guy and both to me are fair...the 3rd had it 113-112 Vazquez with the deduction taking the fight from a draw to a Vazquez SD victory.

    Fight 4 does not warrant my commentary except to say Marquez evened the series up which seems suitable. Neither guy is at their best and Marquez is just not quite as depleted and past it as Vazquez

    Great series!!!!
     
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  14. Jel

    Jel Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Jofre v Harada 1

    1 9-10
    2 9-10
    3 10-10 (Jofre wakes up, excellent action)
    4 8-10:
    Wow! Jofre badly wobbled and hurt. Brilliant from Harada who never let him off the hook once for the rest of the round. Jofre showed great resilience just to make it through.
    5 10-9:
    Double wow! Remarkable recovery in this round from Jofre who unloads on Harada and wins his first clear round of the fight. What true champions are made of.
    6 9-10:
    a relative breather of a round after the insanity of the previous two, very close but feel Harada just edged it
    7 10-9 (Jofre takes it with the better flurries)
    8 10-9 (Jofre shades it again)
    9 10-10 (difficult to score)
    10 9-10 (tight round again, just gave it to Harada on busyness)
    11 10-9 (another tight one, but Jofre got in the better shots)
    12 9-10 (some excellent action but Harada generally in charge)
    13 10-10 (Harada started quickly, Jofre came back but no real clear advantage for either man - another drawn round)
    14 10-9 (Jofre landed the more significant punches)
    15 9-10 (Harada shaded it, although there was mostly holding)

    7-5 rounds to Harada with 3 even
    Jofre 142-145 Harada

    I scored this on the 10 point must system although that wasn't the scoring method of the time - 5 point scoring system, I think - but I'm less familiar with that. I guess it would have been 68-70 based on my card (depending on how the 4th was scored) but not sure. Very happy for someone to enlighten me on this!

    Anyway, great fight and Harada deserved the win although Jofre gave a great performance too. The 4th and 5th were the standouts with both guys deserving huge credit.

    The level of mutual respect was great to see as well. None of the bull**** posturing and false bravado that you always see in fights these days, just two great, great pros going at it. Today's fighters could learn an awful lot from these two in more ways than just how to fight.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2019
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  15. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Lupe Pintor vs Ejiro Murata
    SD Draw

    This is a fun hard to score fight! I thought there were 9 close debatable rounds. I had 3 even rounds and the judges had 3-4-5 even rounds on theirs. Tough fight to score.

    Murata with the quick jab, quick combinations and better accuracy. Or Pintor pressing the action landing the heavier shots but not really throwing combinations. I felt like he was loading up for a big punch but missed frequently. His upper cut looked ready to rip Muratas head off but he missed wildly on most of them.

    I feel like Murata edged this but can’t call it a robbery since I feel there were 9 close rounds. I don’t like the 5 pt Pintor card because it seems like every close round would have to go his way. I think 2 pts to either guy or anywhere in between is more likely.

    RBR
    1 Even
    2 Murata
    3 Pintor
    4 Murata
    5 Even
    6 Pintor
    7 Murata
    8 Murata
    9 Murata
    10 Pintor
    11 Pintor
    12 Murata
    13 Even
    14 Pintor
    15 Murata
    Murata 7-5-3
    Murata 145-143
     
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