the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mantequilla, Nov 20, 2009.


  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yong Kang Kim UD12 Sot Chitalada

    This is Chitalada dropping his title the first time. I just watched the Bernal footage and it's crazy seeing how different Sot fights because of how differently his opponent fight, just such aa contrast. Kim wants to cut about the ring, stay very very loose, do nothing in the first except bob, feint. Sot isn't getting much done his own self. Just some weird exchanges in the clinch.

    Sot gets his nose in front, probably, with some hit and chase single punches, landing a hurtful looking left hook in the third; Kim really rings his bell in the fourth though with a zipping right hand that dips the Thai at the knees; for a moment it look like he might go. So Kim goes man-posssessed, and it is messy and kind of glorious but in the end he comes up short with the pressure attack. 2-2 after 4. Watching a pure-boxer type turn attempted KO artist is usually weirdly entertaining.

    But the fight does stall again. Chitalada is able to win rounds just by landing single right-handed swings to the body while stalking. I really never have seen a walkdown quite like it. The rounds are close, because Sot is landing just here and there so when Sin lands two punches, round becomes confusing. But It's edging towards Sot for me.

    After 8, they're square again for me. Kim seems to have learned his limitations here and he seems to know what he is doing. He's moving in as well as out now, challenging Chitalada's space with a beltline attack and single shots upstairs. It's still not a good fight but it's definitely livened up and Chitalada has not adapted - not at all. He's still boxing his single-shot stalking strategy. Kim in the lead for the first time after the ninth. He's coming for Sot now, two-handed, but in spurts and spells. It's a pretty epic strategy from the Korean.

    Chitalada just about stops the rot by winning the tenth. He's using a left hook and right uppercut more, uppercut especially is a decent scoring shot and it puts him in the lead for significant serious shots landed. He's also back in the role of main-aggressor, though Kim is hanging all over him in the clinches.

    Kim nails the twelfth. He's married the weird aggression to the box-move strategy for the first time and wins this round of boxing. So Sot, who has won one round on my card since the 6th, needs t win the twelfth to get a draw on my card. Doesn't get it. Kim is way, way higher in energy and Sot just couldn't match him.

    7-5 Kim. The decision was just.

    Kim:2,4,7,8,9,11,12
    Chitalada:1,3,5,6,10,
     
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  2. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft The Cincinnati Cobra Full Member

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    Canelo vs Lara

    1. Lara 10-9 (Lara 10-9)
    2. Lara 20-18 (Lara 10-9) Close
    3. Lara 30-27 (Lara 10-9)
    4. Lara 39-37 (Canelo 10-9)
    5. Lara 49-46 (Lara 10-9)
    6. Lara 58-56 (Canelo 10-9)
    7. Lara 67-66 (Canelo 10-9)
    8. Even 76-76 (Canelo 10-9)
    9. Canelo 86-85 (Canelo 10-9)
    10. Even 95-95 (Lara 10-9)
    11. Lara 105-104 (Lara 10-9)
    12. Lara 115-113 (Lara 10-9)
     
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  3. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I've always wanted to see the title bout between Ronnie Shields and Tsuyoshi Hamada. I recall when this took place and saying, 'OK, Shields will win the title this time.' It was one of those sure things that blew me away when I heard the results. Anyways, I found it on youtube and here is how I scored it.

    Round 1: 10-9 Shields
    Round 2: 10-9 Shields
    Round 3: 10-9 Hamada
    Round 4: 10-8 Shields (point deducted from Hamada for low blows)
    Round 5: 10-9 Hamada
    Round 6: 10-9 Shields
    Round 7: 10-9 Shields
    Round 8: 10-9 Shields
    Round 9: 10-8 Hamada (point deducted from Shields for pulling the head down)
    Round 10: 10-9 Hamada
    Round 11: 10-9 Shields
    Round 12: 10-9 Shields

    Total: 117-113 Shields

    Actual scores were 116-111 and 111-108 both for Hamada and 115-113 for Shields.

    Shields was a hard-luck fighter who often would slip into a lull and needed a fire under his stool to get going. But in this fight I think he was hard done by. He boxed well enough and kept a lead right going that the awkward Japanese couldn't avoid. And when he wanted to he matched him strength for strength. Hamada made very awkward lunges that he found some success and made life difficult for Shields at several points. But the crowd, who cheered everything Hamada threw, even when it didn't land won the fight for him. That and the two Asian judges. Difficult to know for sure how the verdict was received. The crowd cheered, but then started tossing in seat cushions into the ring. Something like that would be accompanied by boos so I don't know if that is a different custom there. Anyways, I feel Ronnie Shields was robbed. Would love to hear others POV on this fight.
     
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  4. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond You're not going to do it for free Full Member

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    I'll add it to my list. Good write up.
     
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  5. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You know, I should add in regards to the Hamada-Shields fight that I cannot come up with any mathematical computation on how James Jen Kin came up with a score of 111-108.
     
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Masao Oba UD15 Betulio Gonzalez

    Gonzalez sometimes looks a bit sleepy, but Oba's active jab has him awake and involved from the first. It's an excellent opener pitting Gonzalez's punch-picking and defence versus Oba's activity and aggression. Score it any way you like: I gave it to Gonzalez for his work with the right hand in the final forty seconds. This is fascinating. Both men are building their fight plan around their lefts but it is the right hands that score more meaningfully. The second is the first in reverse, but less close.

    After 5 I have it 3-2 Oba but the Japanese is pouncing for his punches, i'm not sure it's tenable as a long term strategy, especially as Gonzalez is so well poised and is so active on his feet. That, on the other hand, may cost him in the later rounds. It's absolutely poised as a contest. Oba is showing just a bit more variety and that's what has him ahead for me.

    After 7, I have Oba running away with it a bit, but of the three close rounds i've given two to Oba (4, 6) and only one to Gonzalez (1). Still, he's aggressive, trebling the jab, more sometimes, and he's had marginally more success with teh right hand for all that the very best punches have probably been landed by Gonzalez. This is interesting because this fight is considered quite controversial; I wonder does Betulio stage a major rally at some point? Could start with the eighth; Oba dominates but then Gonzalez pins him to teh roeps and lands a booming right hand. This, too, is interesting, because Gonzalez has actually been struggling a bit this round, over-pressurising, using straight lines suddenly, missing with the shorter right. Fascinating, absorbing contest (but really, not the boring kind).

    Gonzalez is consistently winning the final forty seconds of every round which indicates that Oba is tiring. That said, it's not always enough to bring Gonzalez the round. He's getting out-worked early and then delivering a slight edge in quality late, while also marrying it to volume. Gonzalez needs early successes if he's going to close the two point gap. He achieves this in the eleventh and in doing so wins two rounds in a row for the first time. Twelfth is a huge, huge round and Gonzalez charges out of his corner to underline this but is perhaps over-eager - I scored the round for Oba who is now well situated. War, simmering for the entire second half of the fight, breaks out in earnest in the 13tth and Oba gets the better of those exchanges. No more lateral movement from Gonzalez now, he can't afford such niceties and is boring in. Oba is tiring. Gonzalez wins the thirteenth on aggression and workrate so I have it seven-six Oba with two remaining. Gonzalez looks in better nick but needs both rounds to win this fight.

    14tht is a classic, a thriller, it goes back and forth and back and forth and would have had a different winner depending on where you stop it in incraments of almost ten seconds. It's berserk. Scoring it either way is fine - Gonzalez came on strong in the final 30 though and Oba wanted the bell. So I'm giving it to the Mexican.

    This makes it a shootout for the win.

    Another very good round - Gonzalez just about out-fought Oba, once more in the dying seconds. A borderline great fight, starting at a very high level based upon principles of footwork and balance, ending in a full-blown war. Anyone getting to the bottom of this post shold watch it.

    Gonzalez clearly thought he'd won. Judges scorecards favoured Oba by one or two points. Boxrec quotes UPI:

    "WBA flyweight champion Masao Ohba pounded out a close but unanimous 15 round decision over Venezuelan Betulio Gonzalez to retain the crown in his first defense. Referee Yusaku Yoshida scored it 72-70 and both judges Hiroshi Ugo and Takeo Tezaki scored it 71-70 in favor of the defending champion. But Gonzalez said after the fight he thought he had won the fight and the 7,000 boxing fans who packed the auditorium apparently thought the same because they booed the decision."

    This is inaccurate. One or two people (quite possibly associated with Gonzalez) could be heard booing the decision, but mostly there was cheering and applause. A very strong finish from Betulio may have made it seem otherwise, but this was a desperately close fight.

    So, 8-7 Gonzalez but I gave the Mexican no fewer than five close rounds.

    Oba:2,4,5,6,7,9,12,
    Gonzalez:1,3,8,10,11,13,14,15

    Very happy to recommend this one.

     
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  7. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

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    McGrain, that is a terrific breakdown on this fight. Well done. I scored this a few months back and I too had it very close. We are at odds with several rounds but I think this was the nature of this fight. Every round was close. Here is my card below and what I wrote.

    Gonzalez-Ohba. 5 point must system in effect.

    Round 1: 5-4 Ohba
    Round 2: 5-4 Ohba
    Round 3: 5-4 Gonzalez
    Round 4: 5-4 Ohba
    Round 5: 5-4 Ohba
    Round 6: 5-4 Ohba
    Round 7: 5-4 Gonzalez
    Round 8: 5-4 Gonzalez
    Round 9: 5-5 Even
    Round 10: 5-4 Ohba
    Round 11: 5-4 Gonzalez
    Round 12: 5-4 Gonzalez
    Round 13: 5-4 Ohba
    Round 14: 5-5 Even
    Round 15: 5-4 Gonzalez

    Total: 69-68 Ohba

    I was so impressed with Gonzalez. So sharp and so economical with his shots. I can see why he had something like 45 KOs to his credit. He didn't really solve the height and reach issue that Ohba presented until the 7th. After that he was playing catch-up and came up just shy in the scoring. What's noticeable is the complete lack of bodywork. They were head-hunting from start to finish. A really good fight and Gonzalez looked like he could have easily done another 5 rounds while Ohba was dragging that last round.
     
  8. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft The Cincinnati Cobra Full Member

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    Toney vs Jirov

    1. Toney 10-9 (Toney 10-9)
    2. Even 19-19 (Jirov 10-9)
    3. Toney 29-28 (Toney 10-9)
    4. Even 38-38 (Jirov 10-9)
    5. Jirov 48-47 (Jirov 10-9)
    6. Jirov 58-56 (Jirov 10-9)
    7. Jirov 67-66 (Toney 10-9)
    8. Jirov 76-75 (Even 9-9)
    9. Jirov 86-84 (Jirov 10-9)
    10. Jirov 95-94 (Toney 10-9)
    11. Jirov 105-103 (Jirov 10-9)
    12. Even 113-113 (Toney 10-8)

    Would love to have seen a rematch. I don't like Jirov but the look of disappointment in his face after the decision was announced made me appreciate how much he wanted it.
     
  9. zadfrak

    zadfrak Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Kind of shows how little body punching is rewarded compared to the headshots.
     
  10. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft The Cincinnati Cobra Full Member

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    Toney vs Mike McCallum

    1. McCallum 10-9 (McCallum 10-9)
    2. Even 19-19 (Toney 10-9)*
    3. McCallum 29-28 (McCallum 10-9)
    4. McCallum 39-38 (Even 10-10)
    5. McCallum 49-47 (McCallum 10-9)
    6. McCallum 58-57 (Toney 10-9)
    7. McCallum 68-66 (McCallum 10-9)
    8. McCallum 77-76 (Toney 10-9)
    9. McCallum 87-85 (McCallum 10-9)
    10. McCallum 96-95 (Toney 10-9)
    11. Even 105-105 (Toney 10-9)
    12. Toney 115-114 (Toney 10-9)*

    *I can see 2 10-8 rounds here, should you give Toney the "slip in the second" and the 12th round was a brutal beatdown, can definitely see a 10-8, just wouldn't give it myself
     
  11. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft The Cincinnati Cobra Full Member

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  12. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft The Cincinnati Cobra Full Member

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    Toney vs Michael Nunn

    1. Toney 10-9 (Toney 10-9)
    2. Even 19-19 (Nunn 10-9)
    3. Nunn 29-28 (Nunn 10-9)
    4. Even 38-38 (Toney 10-9)
    5. Nunn 48-47 (Nunn 10-9)
    6. Nunn 58-56 (Nunn 10-9)
    7. Nunn 68-65 (Nunn 10-9)
    8. Nunn 77-75 (Toney 10-9)
    9. Nunn 86-85 (Toney 10-9)
    10. Nunn 96-94 (Nunn 10-9)
    11. Even 104-104 (Toney 10-8) TOS
     
  13. The Undefeated Lachbuster

    The Undefeated Lachbuster Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Defensive genius, good power, solid chin. Complete package fighter. He's proof that if you can beat larger men if you're better than them at boxing

    He's somewhere 100-80 on my top 100p4p list. Personally I was never a fan of his but his accomplishments are undeniable. Beating Holyfield was his best moment
     
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  14. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

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    George, I scored this recently and we're not far off, although I only scored the completed rounds, but we're right there.

    Michael Nunn vs. James Toney

    Round 1: 10-9 Toney
    Round 2: 10-9 Nunn
    Round 3: 10-10 Even
    Round 4: 10-9 Nunn
    Round 5: 10-9 Nunn
    Round 6: 10-9 Nunn
    Round 7: 10-9 Nunn
    Round 8: 10-10 Even
    Round 9: 10-9 Toney
    Round 10: 10-9 Nunn
    Round 11: TKO for Toney

    Total: 98-94 Nunn through 10 completed rounds. You have to zone out on Dan Goosen commentating at ringside a bit because I believe he had parted ways with Nunn by this time and more times than not when Toney landed he stated that Nunn was hurt. I do think he was very shaky at the end of the 10th though, despite the fact that I gave Nunn the round. I thought he had done so much work earlier in the round that I couldn't forget it. I think the worst thing that happened to Nunn was KOing Kalambay in the first round. He seemed to think he was a slugger. Dundee tried everything to get him moving but he stayed in close too much. Interesting fight.
     
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  15. Jel

    Jel Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Kid Gavilan v Carmen Basilio - 1953 World Welterweight Championship

    Top notch fight featuring two all-time greats at this weight, reigning champ Gavilan against future champ Basilio in a fight that was tighter than a gnat's ass.

    I decided not to score it because I just wanted to enjoy it but regretted that as the fight went on as it was obviously very close so would have been good to have a tally to view at the end.

    Basilio seemed confident at the end that he'd got it and he seemed to land the more significant punches in the fight, not least the ones that dropped Gavilan early in the fight. But as it wore on, Gavilan kept the more steady punch output using his jab to keep the fight at distance, which suited him better. Basilio was looking for opportunities to counter but stopped using his jab as much so Gavilan probably edged rounds based on that.

    When they got in close, the fight exploded for those brief moments but it never broke out into a full-on war. The fact that those moments became fewer as the fight wore on was a sign that Gavilan was probably edging things his way.

    The fight took place in Syracuse, NY so obviously it was an unpopular decision but a split decision seemed like an inevitable outcome. Still, Basilio could certainly consider himself unlucky. He landed the bigger punches and scored the only knockdown and the rounds were close enough most of the time that they could have gone either way.
     
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