the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mantequilla, Nov 20, 2009.


  1. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Rough, I saw this bout live back in the day and re-scored it about a year ago. But I was most interested with your notation that the 12th round knockdown wasn't counted as a knockdown. I think I always assumed it was because it was a KD in every sense of the term, but did the ref count it? I re-watched the end of the 12th and it is difficult to know what Perez is doing. He certainly doesn't seem to be treating it like a KD even though Mancini walks to a neutral corner and is highly buzzed. Perez doesn't appear to pick up a count and looks like he is calling them together before the bell rings. The AP report on the fight says it was a KD and that Perez began to count. So now you have me stymied, Rough. I scored the fight as if it was a KD, but perhaps more research is needed.

    Alexis Arguello - Ray 'Boom-Boom' Mancini

    Round 1: 10-10 Even
    Round 2: 10-9 Mancini
    Round 3: 10-9 Mancini
    Round 4: 10-9 Mancini
    Round 5: 10-9 Mancini
    Round 6: 10-9 Mancini
    Round 7: 10-10 Even
    Round 8: 10-9 Arguello
    Round 9: 10-10 Even
    Round 10: 10-9 Arguello
    Round 11: 10-9 Arguello
    Round 12: 10-8 Arguello (scores a knockdown)
    Round 13: 10-9 Arguello
    Round 14: Arguello scores a stoppage win

    Total through 13 completed rounds: 125-124 Arguello

    Alexis Arguello truly was a 15 round fighter. You may get off to a good start over him as Ray did, but he bides his time with every hook, uppercut, cross, jab and bodyshot which slowly whittles down the resolve, ribs and skin on his opponent before cuing him up for the KO. Remarkable fighter.
     
  2. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft The Cobra Will Always Bite Back... Full Member

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    Éder Jofre KO10 José Medel
    Official Scores(TOS)- 96-90, 97-93, 97-93
    1960-08-18, NBA Bantamweight Eliminator

    Just to see the difference in ability between this Jofre and the one from the Harada fights before I get onto the 2nd Harada fight.

    Rd. Jofre : Medel
    1. 10 : 9
    2. 9 : 10
    3. 10 : 9 (29-28)
    4. 10 : 9
    5. 10 : 9
    6. 10 : 9 (59-55)
    7. 9 : 10
    8. 10 : 9
    9. 9 : 10 (87-84)

    Round by Round
    Not difficult to score at all, Jofre handedly took it in almost every round. Very high skill fight with good action early on and amazing from technical perspective later on. Rounds 5&9 were particularly good. I was really impressed with these two, Jofre especially. He showed excellent skill, willingness to trade, real good defence, quick hands and feet along with a hard punch. Medel showed good skills, that he could take a punch, throw nice short shots and fight well going forward or off the ropes.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2020
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  3. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft The Cobra Will Always Bite Back... Full Member

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    José Medel TKO6 Fighting Harada
    1963-09-26, None-Title Fight

    @roughdiamond told me this was a WAR. Looking forward to it. Checking in to see how good Harada's chin was and to see José Medel in winning ways. Should be fun!

    Rd. JM : FH
    1. 9 : 10
    2. 9 : 10
    3. 9 : 10
    4. 10 : 10
    5. 10 : 10 (47-50)

    Round by Round
    Awesome fight. Really impressed with both yet again, I've already seen the rematch and I'm glad Harada set this one right. He showed a really good chin here even if he was stopped in 6. Medel showed some nice skills here too, along with catastrophic, fight-changing power. He really is a master of fighting off the ropes, he also showed good finishing skills, which this trio of greats all seem to have in common.
     
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  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Andre Ward UD12 Sergey Kovalev

    Very handy first round for Kovalev. He lands a have-way right hand and a very stiff jab, does some real rough-housing in the clinch. He's laid it all out early and now Ward knows. Still, Ward is playing iwth the range, just outside, feinting a bit with gloves and head. Man Kovalev was much quicker back then. Bosses the second too; even flashes Ward with a one-two. The thing is, Ward wants to control the range but he also wants to do it without risking anything. Kovalev just isn't having that from a moderate super-middle puncher. So he's walking in behind his jab and Ward has started to give ground. When he feels pressure he jabs and grabs, but he's in against a bigger stronger man. Erly in 3 he tries to grab him round the knees. He already looks a little desperate to me.

    That desperation leads to a series of more committed charges though; he's actually fighting Sergey now. Punching two-handed - taking to give some cleaner shots. He's gone from fighting tentatively to pretty aggressively. It's a good adaption. Ward uses the whole ring in the fourth and then looks to pick and chose religiously. It works. He's winning the fourth, risking very little, but it's desperately close, i mean it should really be scored even because nobody owns it or even approaches owning, but if you're giving it to someone you're giving it to Ward, and that's the way these days.

    After an excellent first two rounds run by Krusher, the fight has become a hotch-potch of plans and a lot of wrestling and pot-shotting; it's not boring, too tense for that, but it's certainly not fun. And it's very much Ward's game. He excells at opportunism. He's a hyena in the ring. Which as far as I am concerned is an enormous compliment. In the sixth, Ward does two daft feints, "two for flinching" type feints and Kovelev responds to both. Ward is in his head and it's his ring right now. Kovalev did land a couple of meaningful punches in this round though and the problem with the pace Ward has slowed the contest to is that if your opponent lands a couple of these he can nick the round. Kovalev wins his first since the second.

    Ward goes to teh body for the first half of the seventh, that's really good variety, returns to the top suddenly and scores accordingly. Woven tapestry on offence. The tenth round is the best of the fight; both fighters score meaningful punches for the first time; unbelievably it is still a desperately close round and unbelievably I probably gave it to Kovalev based on the last punch of the round. All these rounds are even in 1950.

    Kovalev coming on stronger in the eleventh. It's like the pennies dropped and he's throwing with less power. Just trying to arm punch, trying to touch Kovalev, that's it, trying to score. As he's naturally heavy handed it's working for him well. So I have it that the winner of the twelfth round wins the fight on my card.

    The 12th though, I have no clue how to score that ****ing round, it's a mystery to me. I think i'll give it to Kovalev for having a more sensible haircut.

    So I have it 114-113 Kovalev. I'm happy with that score. There were only really two rounds that were clear, the first and the second, and they both went to Kovalev. At any time before ten-points must he wins that fight. Too close to be a robbery though.

    WARD:3,4,5,7,8,9,
    KOVALEV:1,2*,6,10,11,12
     
  5. clum

    clum New Member Full Member

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    Miguel Canto vs. Shoji Oguma III (4/18/78)
    ooooCCCoCoCCCCC
    144-140 Canto (Oguma losing a point in the tenth)

    This is my favorite Canto performance. Canto fans might be disappointed by a fight in which his jab isn't that great and he can't pump out quick left-hand combos, but that's part of why I like it. Oguma is just as interested in controlling the distance between them as Canto is (unlike Betulio Gonzalez, for instance), and he's smart and speedy too, so Canto has to find something that works. He ends up doing much of his best scoring with the right hand, both as a sneaky lead and as a counter.

    Oguma actually outjabbed Canto early. He had the slight reach advantage and for the first few rounds any jabbing exchange was won by the challenger. Canto had the cleaner single shots but was landing fewer blows, in part because he couldn't really land the jab except as a counter. I gave Oguma 1-4 and Canto 5-7, but there wasn't any momentum swing there. The fight still seemed to be progressing as Oguma liked, with them trading in the center of the ring and Oguma occasionally rushing in and pinning Canto to the ropes with body shots. The shift seemed to come in rounds 8-10. Oguma won round eight handily, as he even out-countered Canto, but Canto caught him a couple of times late. Canto followed that with one of his best rounds, highlighted by a beautiful leaping left hook, and then in the tenth Oguma seemed to get the better of the fighting (the video broke up a bit at this point) but lost a point for butting. After that, Oguma's charges lacked the explosiveness that they'd had in the earlier rounds, and Canto seemed the fresher and faster of the two. He dominated the next two rounds and made Oguma pay for almost every mistake. The last few rounds were close but the champion's work seemed just a bit cleaner.

    I wouldn't argue with someone who scored it for Oguma, as there were few decisive rounds, but I do think that overall Canto did the better work. He often gets some stick as a one-handed fighter, but in this one you can see him score just as frequently (maybe even more so) with the right. Fight reports said that Oguma was affected by a cut that he suffered around rounds 9-11, which the lousy VQ didn't make clear, so maybe that accounted for Canto's late surge. If you want to see a legitimate scorecard for this fight,
    This content is protected
    's how all three judges had each round.
     
  6. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft The Cobra Will Always Bite Back... Full Member

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    Joel Casamayor TKO6 Diego Corrales
    2003-10-04, IBA Super-Featherweight Title
    Expecting a fun fight here. Cuts stoppage is pretty meh tho.

    Rd. JC : DC
    1. 9 : 10
    2. 10 : 9
    3. 10[-1] : 8
    4. 10 : 9
    5. 10 : 9 (48-45)

    Round by Round
    Good movement and straight shots from Casamayor, Chico was pretty sharp but bewildered. He looked like he couldn't understand why wasn't landing or something.

    Not hard to score at all, just wanted a prep so I could determine how good Joel was before the FOTF. Ok fight, 3 KDs but it wasn't a crazy brawl or anything.
     
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  7. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails Full Member

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    Kid Gavilan vs Billy Graham III

    Gavilan - Graham

    R1: 10 - 9
    What a class opener! Gavilan the aggressor and uppping the work rate on Graham.
    R2: 10 - 9
    Gavilan trying to pour it on. Sneaky headbutt from Graham near the end then. Well timed :D
    R3: 10 - 10
    My God this is getting close! Supreme ability.
    R4: 9 - 10
    Masterful Boxing.
    R5: 10 - 9
    Very close action, and possibly a swing round.
    R6: 9 - 10
    Lots of glancing work due to the skill level. Graham wins on his crisp inside work, and is starting to get the jab down.
    R7: 10 - 10
    Very close. Graham with the jab and lead, Gavilan working more.
    R8: 10 - 9
    Gavilan on the jab now; responding with right counters.
    R9: 9 - 10
    Great action again. Billy more compact.
    R10: 9 - 10
    Graham rapier sharp this round.
    R11: 10 - 9
    Very close again!
    R12: 9 - 10
    Graham with the masterful jab and infighting. He has also made the Keed really respect his power now.
    R13: 9 - 10
    Graham again more compact and effective with his work.
    R14: 9 - 10
    Close. Graham's short hooks take this. Great action.
    R15: 9 - 10
    Great finale!

    TOTAL: 145 - 142 GRAHAM

    Notes:
    • Magnificent, magnificent bout. ATG / Legendary skills is truly an appropriate term here, especially for the criminally forgotten Graham (shout out to @red cobra for being the original appreciator and introducer of Graham for me a long while back!)
    • A thinking mans fight, but not boring, with plenty of high class action.
    • Graham ultimately won on being the more compact, crisp fighter, especially with his inside work. Gavilan was hitting shoulder and elbows all night.
    • Second time watching this, first time scoring. Renowned by hard-cores for it's perceived 'scoring difficulty', it definitely lives up to it IMO.
     
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  8. red cobra

    red cobra Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Thank you my man,...I appreciate that!!
     
  9. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft The Cobra Will Always Bite Back... Full Member

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    Fighting Harada UD15 Alan Rudkin
    1965-11-30, Undisputed BW Title
    Official Cards - 74-66, 72-70, 74-65

    Rd. FH : AR
    1. 10 : 8
    2. 10 : 9
    3. 10 : 9
    4. 9 : 10
    5. 10 : 9 (49-45)
    6. 9. 10
    7. 9 : 10
    8. 10 : 9
    9. 10 : 9
    10. 9 : 10 (96-93)
    11. 10 : 9
    12. 10 : 9
    13. 10 : 10
    14. 10 : 9
    15. 9 : 10 (145-140)

    Lots of close, swing rounds and very subjective, especially down the mid-stretch. Harada took a clear early lead(with a KD) and pulled back late. Rudkin, whilst very comfortable didn't manage to make that ground back up and had his chance to seized by Harada over rounds 11-14.
     
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  10. AlFrancis

    AlFrancis Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Always interesting to see someone else's take on this fight. Like you say, a lot of subjective rounds. McGrain also said this when he scored it. I might be a bit more bias I don't know :) but I think what is often neglected when looking at this fights is dad's constant body punching which definitely took it's toll on Harada. The doyen of boxing in Britain at the time was Peter Wilson of the Daily Mirror. He didn't give Harada any of the last 5 rounds from ringside. He said Dad's body punching was cutting him in half. I must say he was a fan of dad because he scored the Harada, Rose and first McGowan fight to him, the Harada and Rose fights by the tightest of margins. He also scored the second Ben Ali to dad by a comfortable margin and called it a load of Barcelona Bull, He wasn't on his own with that judgement as all the British press made dad the winner, and against McGowan. First round is interesting a 5.3 for Harada. Was that really a knockdown? Dad said it wasn't. He didn't even really have a bad round apart from that and it could be that 5.3 created a 3 point sway in the scoring. He boxed well in the second too. I'd say Harada did appear to be throwing the eye catching looping shots but dad's work was a lot tighter with the body shots and short punches on the inside. Harada was a real bully in the ring and liked to pin his opponents on the ropes where he'd whale away. Dad's back might of only touched the ropes only a couple of times in the whole fight as he usually just turned Harada in these situations. I'm not going to argue dad won this fight but it was definitely a lot close than the Japanese judges scored it. I think Nicky Pope actually scored 7 or 8 rounds even. By the way does anybody on here speak Japanese? I'd love to read a transcript of the commentary see how the commentary team at ringside scored it. Harada definitely was a smart fighter, a general. He knew when to coast and when to explode into action. I reckon it's a real quality high level fight with great skills shown from both lads.
     
  11. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails Full Member

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    Hey Al, I'm going to score this later, and I'll definitely keep this in mind. I scored the Gavilan Vs Graham wider than some for Graham, due to similar type of tighter work you mentioned. Hopefully I can give a good scoring account.
     
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  12. AlFrancis

    AlFrancis Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Look forward to it, whatever way you see it Rough.
     
  13. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Rough, this was my score, which I sored on the NY rounds basis

    Kid Gavilan - Billy Graham III (NY scoring which was the rounds basis)

    Round 1: Even
    Round 2: Gavilan
    Round 3: Graham
    Round 4: Gavilan
    Round 5: Gavilan
    Round 6: Graham
    Round 7: Gavilan
    Round 8: Even
    Round 9: Graham
    Round 10: Graham
    Round 11: Graham
    Round 12: Graham
    Round 13: Even
    Round 14: Graham
    Round 15: Graham

    8-4-3 Graham

    Rough, if you scored it on the rounds basis, your score would be 8-5-2 for Graham. We had very similar scores. Taking out our even rounds, which were close swing rounds, we actually only disagreed on two rounds. Not too shabby in a tight 15 rounder.
     
  14. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails Full Member

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    Well, if your score is similar to mine I consider that a success for me, since your scores are always extremely well done.

    And this was a tight one. I do not begrudge a tight Gavilan verdict one bit, as @Jel had it.
     
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  15. Jel

    Jel Reserving the right to be inconsistent Full Member

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    It was definitely a tough one to score - one of those ones where you think 'if the round ends now, I'm not sure who to give it to'... and then the round would end!
     


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