the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mantequilla, Nov 20, 2009.


  1. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Guys, I just scored another tough one. The Jose Torres v Eddie Cotton light heavyweight championship contest over 15 rounds. Good quality video, but man, it's like there were so many close rounds on what one is looking for. Here we go, Nevada's 5 point scoring system.

    Round 1: 5-4 Torres
    Round 2: 5-5 Even
    Round 3: 5-4 Torres
    Round 4: 5-4 Torres
    Round 5: 5-5 Even
    Round 6: 5-4 Cotton
    Round 7: 5-4 Cotton
    Round 8: 5-4 Torres
    Round 9: 5-4 Torres
    Round 10: 5-4 Cotton
    Round 11: 5-4 Torres
    Round 12: 5-5 Even
    Round 13: 5-4 Cotton
    Round 14: 5-5 Even
    Round 15: 5-4 Torres

    Total: 71-68 Torres

    Actual scores: 70-67, 68-67 and 69-67 all for Torres

    Cotton had a right to feel like he was jobbed - as he was 40 and had been in the game close to 20 years - but in reality, although a really good effort, I just think he needed to fight with more fire. Whether it wasn't in the tank or it simply wasn't his style, he just came up a bit shy on my score. But having said that, I did have 4 even rounds, which will tell you how close this fight was. I suppose I was more impressed with Torres' punching power in this case rather than the sort of soft-jabbing of Cotton. But Cotton was a canny sort and was good inside, so one has to weigh everything.
     
  2. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails Full Member

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    Alan Rudkin vs Fighting Harada

    Rudkin - Harada

    R1: 8 - 10
    I had Rudkin winning this 'till the false knockdown call. Not a knockdown, but must unfortunately be counted.
    R2: 10 - 9
    Very close. Rudkin with brilliant heart shots.
    R3: 9 - 10
    Harada sharp punch placement - left hooks
    R4: 9 - 10
    Close again; lots of bodywork.
    R5: 10 - 10
    Rudkin working in later this round.
    R6: 9 - 10
    Brilliant skills. Harada nicks it with sharp right hands.
    R7: 9 - 10
    Fierce body exchanges. Rudkin stunned.
    R8: 10 - 10
    Both working exceptionally well. Hard to separate.
    R9: 10 - 9
    Rudkin adapting; beautiful body work.
    R10: 10 - 9
    Rudkin's body work telling now. Close.
    R11: 10 - 9
    Harada mauling now, but Rudkin is more compact and effective.
    R12: 10 - 10
    Very close. Harada with counters, but mostly inactive.
    R13: 9 - 10
    Harada just coming on at the end there.
    R14: 9 - 10
    Harada on activity and hard counters.
    R15: 10 - 9
    An exhausting finale!

    TOTAL (10 POINT MUST): 145 - 142 HARADA

    Notes:
    • @AlFrancis - if it wasn't for the false knockdown at the beginning there, I would have had this a draw at 144 - 144.
    • I tried to not score even rounds as hard as I could, but still ended up with 3!
    • Brilliant skilled fight. Rudkin was truly unlucky to not win a title. I'm not exaggerating in saying he'd probably have titles in at-least 2 weights today. Very underrated fighter even by hardcore fans.
    • Both men were tough and extremely game. Hard to watch and score due to the sneaky work, especially by Rudkin. Make sure you are sharp when scoring this one.
     
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  3. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails Full Member

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    On 5 point must, I would have had it 70 - 67 for Harada with knockdown. 69 - 69 without the knockdown.
     
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  4. AlFrancis

    AlFrancis Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Thanks for taking the time to score it. I think it's a great fight and nobody has seen it more than me. Interesting you picked out that shot in the seventh. I remember watching it with dad once and he picked that out as a shot that temporarily stunned him.
     
  5. AlFrancis

    AlFrancis Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I think we're all agreed, it's not a 74-66, 74-66 from the Japanese judges sort of fight. Nicky Pope USA scored it 72-70-
     
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  6. Jel

    Jel Reserving the right to be inconsistent Full Member

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    James Toney v Vassiliy Jirov

    Terrific, gruelling scrap in which Toney rolled back the years and deservedly won, although I had it closer than the official scores. Not as close as Harold Lederman though! He scored this a draw but our cards diverged in the second half as Jirov's punches ran out of steam and Toney picked him off with the better quality and more varied shots. The final round closed the show for Toney and was a tremendous round by any standard - proper Hollywood finish.

    1 10-9 (good opening round. Toney started strong before Jirov worked his way into the round. Higher volume from Jirov, higher quality from Toney)
    2 9-10 (Jirov outworked Toney, although it evened up somewhat towards the end of the round)
    3 9-10 (Jirov with a blatant low blow but no point deduction. Jirov otherwise edged it)
    4 9-10 (close)
    5 10-9 (better from Toney, matching Jirov's workrate and landed the better shots)
    6 10-10 (Toney started well, Jirov fought his way back into it and the two battled evenly to the bell)
    7 10-9 (gruelling action, Toney overall landed the better shots but Jirov pushed him hard and Toney looked tired by the end)
    8 9-9 (another low blow by Jirov, ref Steve Smoger takes a point this time; tough round to score - last flurry of the round by Jirov may have just swung it his way)
    9 10-9 (Jirov still keeping up a high work rate but he doesn't seem to have as much on his punches as earlier. Toney fighting well off the ropes and landed the cleaner, more hurtful punches throughout. Clear Toney round)
    10 10-9 (Toney rocked Jirov with some hard combos and showed the more varied offense as Jirov continues to tire)
    11 9-10 (close round but Jirov looked more spritely in this round and just about edged it)
    12 10-8 (what a finish - Toney drops Jirov last 20 seconds - a great final round!)

    Toney 115-112 Jirov
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2020
  7. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    **** Tiger UD10 Henry Hank
    1962-03-31, None Title Fight.
    Official Cards: 10-0, 9-0, 8-1

    Rd. DT : HH
    1. 10 : 9
    2. 10 : 10
    3. 9 : 10
    4. 10 : 9
    5. 10 : 9 (49-47)
    6. 9 : 10
    7. 9 : 10
    8. 10 : 9
    9. 10 : 9
    10. 10 : 9 (97-94)

    Awesome fight. Definitely not a shut out for Tiger imo.

    Hank definitely helped lay the foundations for styles like Pirog's, Toney's & Canelo's.
     
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  8. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Alexis Arguello KO13 Rubén Olivares
    1974-11-23, WBA FW Title
    Official Cards: 8-3, 5-5, 6-5

    Rd. AA : RO
    1. 9 : 10
    2. 9 : 10
    3. 9 : 10
    4. 9 : 10 (36-40)
    5. 9 : 10
    6. 10 : 9
    7. 9 : 10
    8. 10 : 9 (74-78)
    9. 10 : 10
    10. 9 : 10
    11 10 : 9
    12. 9 : 10 (112-117)

    Really good fight, not too hard to score imo. There's no shame in being iced by a young Arguello, similarly, there's no shame in being out-boxed by an aging Olivares. Both of these guys looked excellent here, both looked really sharp too. Lots of class, brilliant fundamentals.

    Olivares showed a vicious body attack, great movement, very good defence and brilliant punch structure. "Rock-a-bye" Rubén's left hook was as potent as ever, coming off the jab fluidly and working downstairs hard. Nice and short inside too. He showed huge heart in the 13th.

    Arguello started slow, as per, but when he started turning it up, it was really fun to watch. His body punching, laser accurate straight right and mixture of uppercuts and hooks about the midsection were still very apparent. He wasn't the fighter he'd come to be yet, but the writing was on the wall.

    Both of these guys were quintessential boxer-punchers.
     
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  9. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Rubén Olivares UD15 Chucho Castillo
    1970-04-18, Undisputed BW Title
    Official Cards: 9-4, 7-6, 10-5

    Rd. RO : CC
    1. 10 : 9
    2. 10 : 9
    3. 8 : 10
    4. 10 : 10
    5. 10 : 9 (48-47)
    6. 10 : 9
    7. 10 : 9
    8. 9 : 10*
    9. 9 : 10
    10. 10 : 9 (96-94)
    11. 10 : 9*
    12. 10 : 9
    13. 9 : 10
    14. 9 : 10
    15. 10 : 9 (145-141)

    *=Swing rounds. Not hard to score here.

    Castillo was tough as nails. Brave little *******.

    Rubén, compared to the Arguello fight, looked quicker, more accurate, sharper, thinner and overall, just fresher. Crazy how noticeable the change was after just 4 years. Partying?
     
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  10. Henry Hank

    Henry Hank Member Full Member

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    One of my favorite fights. Hank gave as good as he got the official scorecards are ridiculous , I wont argue with Tiger being the winner but this was a competitive fight not the shut down they had on the cards.

    Agree with Hank having some Toney like moves him being from Michigan just like James Toney i wouldnt be surprised if Toney didnt pick some of his moves from Hank specially while he was trained by old schooll trainer Bill Miller who used to show videos of old fighters to James.



    Hank is also the grandpa of Tony Harrison who recently lost a rematch with Jermell Charlo. Tony is a skilled but very fragile fighter. If he had half the toughness of his grandpa he would be a pound for pound type of fighter but hey you cant have it all.
     
  11. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    It was a very good fight, this and the Zaragoza stuff? You have good taste my man. Yeah, had to be very bias to say that Hank didn't win any rounds, or even only won 2.

    I've thought since watching him, that Toney looked a little like Benton.

    Didn't know that about Harrison, I know who he is but not that him and Hank were related. Thanks.
     
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  12. Jel

    Jel Reserving the right to be inconsistent Full Member

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    Oct 20, 2017
    James Toney v Reggie Johnson

    Thanks to @George Crowcroft for reminding me about this fight.

    Wow - excellent fight that I haven't seen for about 25 years. Back in the 90s, me and a friend would order boxing tapes and because they were £15 a pop and we were skint teenagers, we'd share out the fights we wanted to order and then go round to each other's houses and watch them together. We were both Toney fans so we split his best fights between us on our respective tape orders - I got the Nunn and first McCallum fight and my mate got the Johnson and second McCallum fight.

    Anyway, nostalgia aside, this was a high quality fight from start to finish. Johnson started brilliantly and controlled things from the outside, including scoring that surprise but superb knockdown, one of the rare occasions Toney was down in his stellar career. And he was hurt too. The legs didn't come back for a little while after the KD. Toney gradually got a foothold in the fight though and while Johnson can consider himself somewhat unlucky not to take the title after that performance, I felt he was a little too conservative at times and didn't throw quite enough to take rounds clearly, particularly over the second half where I felt that Toney's rounds were a bit clearer wins for him than Johnson's were. Still, lots of close rounds throughout and enough for either man to think he deserved victory.

    Scorecard and RBR breakdown below:

    1 9-10 (very strong start by Johnson, excellent counters)
    2 8-10 (terrific counter left puts Toney on the deck and hurt him too)
    3 9-10 (another round in the bag for Reggie. He's boxing superbly)
    4 10-9 (Toney edges his way into the fight and stops the rot)
    5 10-9 (close, gave it to Toney for the harder shots but could easily go the other way. Johnson is one slick fighter)
    6 10-9 (tough round to score. How much weight do you put in the right hand that put Johnson into the ropes? He wasn't badly hurt, more off balance so it probably looked more spectacular than it was but was the lasting impression of the round. Johnson otherwise landed the more consistent shots)
    7 10-10 (another close one, Johnson maybe not doing quite enough offensively and Toney again landing the more noteworthy punches but this is tight.)
    8 10-9 (Toney seems to have Johnson in some trouble early but Reggie comes back before Toney finishes the stronger)
    9 9-10 (both fighters looking tired and another pick em kind of a round. I thought Johnson's body work and countering edged this one but there's not a lot between them)
    10 9-10 (Close again but Johnson did the tidier, cleaner work)
    11 10-9 (Crucial, clear round for Toney)
    12 10-9 (Toney gets cut badly but presses the fight and Johnson is a bit too defensive)

    Toney 114-114 Johnson

    So a draw on my card and that sums up the tight nature of the contest.

    An observation to share about Toney and his fights around this time. In 1991, he fought Michael Nunn, Reggie Johnson and Mike McCallum - that is a tough set of fighters and all of them are masterful on the back foot. Because of this, I think Toney appeared to people as a puncher, which maybe led to an impression that he wasn't as slick defensively as the guys he was fighting. He didn't have the reputation yet that he'd earn up at super middleweight and beyond as a master counter puncher because he largely had to make the fights against guys like Nunn and Johnson, who were most comfortable fighting off the back foot. This wasn't Toney's natural game (as would be shown even more clearly against Roy Jones) but it's to his credit that he managed to find a way back into both the Nunn and Johnson fights when having to make both fights. We'd see much more of his counter punching prowess later in his career than here.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2020
  13. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails Full Member

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    Jul 25, 2015
    Jorge Linares vs Antonio DeMarco

    Linares - DeMarco

    R1: 10 - 9
    Linares extremely sharp.
    R2: 10 - 9
    Linares incredibly balanced. Closer round.
    R3: 10 - 9
    Beautiful uppercut.
    R4: 10 - 9
    Close round - closer than HBO talk.
    R5: 10 - 9
    Truly fantastic movement from Linares.
    R6: 9 - 10
    Firefight! DeMarco working in now.
    R7: 10 - 9
    Close. DeMarco adjusting now.
    R8: 10 - 9
    Linares winning, but it's very tumultuous.
    R9: 10 - 9
    Heart from Linares. Not too effective though, winning on activity.
    R10: 10 - 9
    Linares working and moving.
    R11: TKO
    Brilliant round. DeMarco timing Linares, hurting him, and eventually finishing him off.

    Notes:
    • Linares was a supreme talent, beautiful skill and co-ordination as Steward said, but DeMarco was game, smart and tough. He took his chance and it paid off. Linares as a fighter is less than the sum of his parts, due to those very few glaring issues.
     
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  14. AlFrancis

    AlFrancis Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Yes I'd say partying and he probably never really was a featherweight,.
     
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  15. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I was gonna get round to DMing this you, but any words on Olivares vs your Dad? I can't find footage but I'm just going over Olivares career. Seemed to be a great performance over an elite contender.
     
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