the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mantequilla, Nov 20, 2009.


  1. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    That is a terrific fight. My favorite Tiger bout, with possible exception of the Florentino Fernandez one.
     
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  2. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    Cassius Clay v Doug Jones

    Excellent heavyweight battle between a young pre-title Muhammad Ali and a tough and smart opponent in Jones. The contrast in styles was a key component in how you score this one but I had Clay/Ali ahead at the end by a clear margin. He stepped up his workrate significantly in the last few rounds and although Jones had some success he was getting outworked by the end.

    1 9-10 (Jones nearly puts Clay down)
    2 9-10 (Jones landed the best punches of the round, two or three left hooks to the jaw.)
    3 10-9
    4 10-9
    5 10-10 (Clay peppering Jones with jabs but most missing as Jones moves his head well. Clay does score with a couple of nice combos but Jones scores with his own later in the round. Either way type of round)
    6 9-10 (Jones has success again with the left hook)
    7 10-9 (Jones lands the punch of the round, a straight right this time but overall Clay took it)
    8 10-9 (excellent back and forth action but a good performance from Clay who ups his workrate in this round)
    9 10-9 (another good one rom Clay who secured it with a strong performance in the second half of the round)
    10 10-9 (Clay closes the show with lots of combinations and most of them land. Jones has some success but it's a clear win for Clay)

    Clay 97-94 Jones

    Clay wins 6 rounds to 3 with 1 even.
     
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Errol Spence SD12 Shawn Porter

    I love the way Spence takes a look early. Stays limber, displays his speed. Porter bouncing in his circle, also having a look I suppose - wonder which way he will go? Box and surge or ceaseless pressure? Interesting stuff. Spence, sheer class, lands the clean stuff to take the first, and Porter shows his hand in the second, pressure pressure pressure, he has to take punches but he's scoring points on aggression and landing. It heats up big time in a key second round - Porter nicks it with a left hand late.

    Porter rushes Spence bigtime in the third and Spence is equal to it - fights fire with fire, high intensity, low blows form both going in, Spence showing himself equal to a hot, hot pace. Porter gets his range right in the fourth though: this is a thriller. A thriller of which Spence has taken command through six. He's a tough, tough kid. He has no fear of Porter's rushes, he just respects the punches and does his work, backs his timing and his control of distance, which has an end, but an end which Porter has to buy - hot, hot pace.

    Interestingly, Porter takes the seventh with some unexpected jabs from his toes, Porter is suddenly boxing at Spence's middle distance, just outside for Porter and the contradiction bothers Spence - will be interesting to see how he adjusts to this. Porter buys the first half of this round with that style and then lets Spence in for the second half, arguably losing that half by a shade but still taking the round. Porter isn't going away. Now Porter's dad, in his corner, IMO he makes the occasional mistakes in calling strategy. It will be interesting to see what they decide to do now after this seventh round success. Big eighth approaches.

    Spence pushes out of his corner aggressively and then lands a gorgeous counter left on Porter's jaw as he tries to rush back. That shot hurt Porter and will likely define the round or at least the early part of it. Very, very close and crucial ninth. It's hard to separate them. Porter I think shades it into the last minute, controlling the action, throwing the volume - Spence scoring probably the best punch of the round though and then gets cute indie with cute little upercuts, both landing hard punches, Spence is pushing Porter back though - Jesus it's close. I'll give it to Porter for the aggression. Arguable. You know what. I think Porter wins an arguable tenth as well. It's close but he's controlling the where and the when and he's throwing more punches and it just makes you want to give him the tight rounds. 5-5 after ten.

    Thankfully, Spence resumes a modicum of control in the eleventh and twelfth to close out a great fight and take the decision 115-112 after scoring a hard left hook in the pocket in the eleventh and dropping a fatigued Porter for a count. Such a shame Spence had that car crash after this. Real heartbreaker. Real sickener. Porter rematch then a Manny fight would have been totally natural.

    Spence: 1,3,5,6,8,11*,12.
    Porter: 2,4,7,9,10.

    *Porter down.
    7-5 Spence.
     
  4. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    Joey Giardello v Dick Tiger 3

    I watched a mostly complete version of this fight on YouTube - just the opening round and the 5th missing as far as I could see. Regardless of the missing rounds, Giardello won this fair and square.

    Having watched some high octane action fights over the last few days, this one was a considerable change of pace. It took me a few rounds to get into it and appreciate the nuances. The Tiger-Hank fight was instructional in how not to fight Dick Tiger and whether Giardello saw that or just called on his previous experience to execute the plan to beat Tiger, I don't know - but it worked. Giardello tried to keep things at a distance, flurried and then held. Adding in the occasional bit of lateral movement meant that Tiger spent a lot of time swinging and missing. It was an impressive and disciplined performance by Giardello and he made a great fighter look pretty ordinary.

    Even without two rounds, I had Giardello winning by six rounds, which is wider than the official scores, but I thought he fought a pretty much perfect fight.

    1 round missing
    2 Tiger
    3 Giardello (somewhat pedestrian pace to this one)
    4 Giardello (clever work from Giardello, getting his shots in but avoiding slugging with Tiger)
    5 round missing
    6 Tiger (close. Tiger landed the best shots of the round)
    7 Giardello
    8 Giardello
    9 Giardello (Tiger lands some decent shots but it's fleeting. On the outside, Giardello is outworking him)
    10 Giardello
    11 Giardello
    12 Tiger
    13 Giardello
    14 Even
    15 Giardello

    9-3-1 to Giardello (with two rounds missing)
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2020
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Manny Pacquiao SD12 Keith Thurman

    Manny, basically 41, 2" reach disadvantage, 2" height disadvantage. Manny, I love you bro.

    Thurman giving no ground in the first: pays the price after landing some decent shots. Gets rushed back, Pacquiao claiming all of his space, Thurman thinks he can go straight back, not against Manny kid; old man still got it. Sit down, boy. Straight left to the body, gorgeous straightish right while on the rush, you can see he's thrown that punch before.

    Thurman is calm in the second, but Manny is taking advantage of his moderate footpseed to peal in on him; Thurman likes his straight right, seems to prefer it to the jab, risky, but not outrageous given how clean he throws that punch. Manny has rolled out of the knockdown in the first round, which he was losing, and has a three-point lead on the cards. Pacquiao is a little more stationary in the third and looks a little more his age. On the other hand, he knows his body - and I think he nicks a close third on a sharp jab, though Thurman is re-emerging now, landing bodyshots and that sneak straight right, so short. Huge fourth round, key round coming up.

    This round is barely with Thurman until the fifty second mark when Manny scrapes the clock back and shows what he would have done to Thurman in his prime: knock him the **** out with circular movement and angular combinations. I thought Manny nicked an arguable round in this spell. I'm not sure he can be caught on my card now, I have it 4-zip with a KD.

    It seems I spoke too soon as Thurman gathers some middle rounds and stages something of a rally. He's not doing brilliantly, he doesnt' seem capable of hurting this grim veteran in the other corner, but he's getting that right hand across more and more. Manny needs to be just a bit careful here - he's lost the sixth, seventh and eighth consecutively on my card.

    Thurman is staging some rally here. This is exciting. He's learned that when he moves without thinking about offence, Manny will miss as long as he isn't going straight back. Furthermore, late in the fight, Manny's speed is dipping a bit and when Thurman lands, Manny will come for him. Thurman knows all these things - he's learning. Manny stops the rot in the tenth, however, Thurman looks tired and disorganised. The Thurman advice in the corner after this round is very depressing. "Try to trap him on the ropes...breath...come on champ." Could do with a bit more than that, he needs the knockout now.

    This is twenty years after Manny won his first title at flyweight, by the way.

    But it was Thurman who looked the older fighter, beset by the pace, hurt by the exchanges, confounded by the sudden changes. He looks lower of hand and of foot. Manny really is extraordinary.

    Manny:1*,2,3,4,5,10,
    Thurman: 6,7,8,9,11,12

    *Thurman down.

    114-113 Manny Pacquiao.
     
  6. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Don't remember specific rounds, but I had it 7-3 for Clay. This nonsense about Jones being robbed comes from the same playbook as "Mancini was a glorified clubfighter." Something some expert-wanna-be reads in an article once and they feel obliged to spew it back later as if the idea was theirs to begin with.
     
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  7. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Mancini was awesome, I've binge watched about 50 rounds of him over the last month.

    Jones was a good fighter, underrated.
     
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  8. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Agree on both!
     
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  9. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Really need to excuse myself today and get to Canzi-Chocolate. Work and fatherhood amidst the quarantine have robbed me of any time.
     
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  10. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Finally getting my crack at the whip on this one

    Shoji Oguma v Park Chan Hee II

    Round 1: 10-8 Park (scores a knockdown)
    Round 2: 10-9 Park
    Round 3: 10-9 Oguma
    Round 4: 10-9 Park
    Round 5: 10-9 Oguma
    Round 6: 10-9 Park
    Round 7: 10-9 Park
    Round 8: 10-10 Even
    Round 9: 10-9 Park
    Round 10: 10-9 Park
    Round 11: 10-10 Even
    Round 12: 10-9 Oguma
    Round 13: 10-9 Oguma
    Round 14: 10-9 Oguma
    Round 15: 10-9 Oguma

    Total: 144-142 Park

    To begin, I loved the interest this bout sparked from Rough, George and Amos, who all turned in cards (hope I'm not missing somebody). Regarding the fight, to tell you the truth, I felt - on my card - Oguma lost it rather than Park won it. There were so many rounds where Oguma was content to just dance on the outside and do little while Park was throwing wild shots but taking the rounds for his effort, while I was screaming for Shoji to get in there. He did next to nothing with his jab despite a height advantage made even better for him by Park's pronounced crouch. Moreover, when Park's fatigue was setting in around the 7th and 8th, that would have been the time for Oguma to really go hard on the inside and sink some of those shots to the belly. He was clearly the stronger man in the clinches and should have been exerting his will to the body. It's all academic as he won a split, but all of us agree that Park deserved the win.
     
  11. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    Kennedy McKinney v Junior Jones

    Been watching a lot of longer and full-distance fights recently so thought I would treat myself to a short and explosive one instead.

    I saw this on the undercard of the Hamed-Kelley fight back in 1997. I hadn't realised it was on the card at the time so when it was announced as the next bout up I thought 'this should be good'. By the end of the 4th when Jones had been flattened by McKinney I said to myself 'well, that's the fight of the night then!'. By the end of Hamed-Kelley, though, it was virtually forgotten. Which is a shame because this was a great little scrap.

    Jones started well and probably edged the first, then fired off a big combo that wobbled McKinney in the second. In the third Jones unleashed an onslaught that put McKinney down probably more through the volume of shots rather than any one punch. I guess Jones figured he had his man where he wanted him as he went for the finish in round 4 and got caught by a counter that put him down but wasn't ruled a knockdown... but then get hit fair and square on the chin spectacularly not long after. He got up but looked like he was trying to stand with roller skates on and went face first back onto the floor with the ref waving it straight off.

    Short but fun fight that's worth 20 minutes of anyone's time if you haven't seen it.

    1 9-10 (close)
    2 9-10
    3 8-10
    (26-30)
    4 McKinney TKO Jones
     
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  12. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    Carmen Basilio v Tony DeMarco 2

    It's great to search out and discover new fights, particularly when they turn out to be classics. But sometimes it's just as nice to rewatch a favourite fight to remind yourself why you loved it so much in the first place and this is one such fight.

    From the start both fighters come out looking to land bombs and it's DeMarco who has the most success, particularly with his left hook but also with the straight right as he piles up the points while inflicting maximum damage. Basilio shows his remarkable toughness and resiliency, though, particularly in the unforgettable 7th round when he is rocked to his core by another DeMarco hook but manages to survive to the end of the round, showing incredible recuperative powers.

    After another torrid round, he begins to turn the tide in round 9 and now DeMarco is missing his hooks more than he is landing them. Even when Basilio is starting to turn things round, though, DeMarco is having his moments. But Basilio batters him in the 12th and after flattening him in a way that suggests he won't make it up (but does) Basilio follows up with a picture perfect combo to put him down for good, the referee not bothering to count this time, to seal a remarkable comeback.

    I've been to Boston a few times in recent years and headed over to the North End, the traditionally Italian-American neighbourhood. As well as having a street named after him (Tony DeMarco Way) as you enter that area there is a statue of DeMarco. Whenever I'm there, I check it out and I think about this fight. Like visiting the area he's from, I plan to return to this fight again. It's so, so good.

    I already had it in my personal top 20 fights of all time but after rewatching this I may need to consider that it could crack the top 10. Like Moore-Durelle, this is a great example of a classic fight from yesteryear that actually lives up to its reputation.

    1 9-10
    2 9-10
    3 10-9 (close)
    4 9-10
    5 9-10
    6 9-10 (close)
    7 9-10 (huge moment as Basilio is badly wobbled)
    8 9-10
    9 10-9
    10 10-9 (Basilio is turning the tide)
    11 10-9
    (103-106; 7 rounds to 4 DeMarco)
    12 Basilio TKO DeMarco
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2020
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Floyd Mayweather UD12 Manny Pacquiao

    Fight of the century and that...

    Manny is injured, bad shoulder, okay, but that doesn't change the fact that Mayweather claims ring centre with absolute ease in the first round. No opportunities, really, squandered; easy round for Money. Second round he gives up the middle of the ring and goes left-right, then allows himself to be pinned to the ropes and in the corner but sings out that right hand. Prodding with the jab though. Here's a question - is Money at the ropes because he wants to be or because Manny puts him there? Either way I think Manny is not doing great. It's the same old story with Money - he does so well with counters that he reduces, dramatically, the output of the opponent.

    And, of course, Manny is injured.

    Volume gets Manny the fourth and you wonder if he wouldn't have been able to do more of this if he weren't hurt. That's one question that does emerge from this fight. But Mayweather...he's incredible, he really is, Manny is hurt, but Mayweather is way past prime, his legs are going, and he's so good it doesn't really matter. Manny did well in the fourth but with this referee, the shoulder injury, this fighter - nah, he just doesn't have enough to get it done. Here, Mayweather looks to land the straight right, dip, bump up against Pacquiao and throw him off balance and off the scent. Veteran tricks.

    In the fifth Mayweather sits ring centre again, throws out a jab or right hand, comes forwards in a wider stance. This guy knows fighting, doesn't he? He's in no rush, he's just slowing Manny down and then punching when he feels like it to stay ahead in the frame. He sees strategy and tactics both. Why does such an irritating human being have to have access to this brilliance? Guy can't read but he sees the matrix.

    Fascinating sixth. Mayweather clearly outlands Manny; Manny has ditched the jab and is swinging from the rigging. He's looking for power punches; Mayweather is taking a lot of this on the gloves and arms but he has Mayweather shaking his head: "no". Which means he's uncomfortable. This is the pace Manny needs to fight at to win this fight - he wins this on the pressure, aggression and volume but there is not quite enough of each to make it feel dominant. 4-2 after six, Manny well in the fight but needs two of the next three at a minimum.

    Mayweather reverses this in the seventh by sitting in the middle of the ring again using quick feet to back out while remaining balanced. So hard to rush out of position like we've seen Manny do to so many fighters down the years. Mayweather establishes a jab, doesn't do great work with it, but it boxes Manny a bit. I think, maybe, Pacquiao nicks a very very close eighth though, but Maywether looks insanely confident in this round. Mayweather bags the nine like he's sparring but Manny turns Mayweather's hold-ring-centre strategy against him a bit I think in the tenth, shooting to the body when Mayweather dips. Yeah, Mayweather is blocking a few but i tell you what that makes things interesting going into the eleventh - Manny can bag em both fro a draw on my card.

    Nah. Mayweather coasts home. So cool, the slipping so great. Manny is being made to miss and Mayweather is hitting him quite a lot. Domination, baby.

    Telll you what this fight is a) much better than I remember and b) a little closer than I remember. I thoroughly enjoyed it.

    Manny:4,6,8,10.
    Money:1,2,3,5,7,9,11,12.

    8-4 Mayweather.
     
  14. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I had it a bit closer, but Clay the winner

    Round 1: Jones
    Round 2: Clay
    Round 3: Clay
    Round 4: Jones
    Round 5: Jones
    Round 6: Even
    Round 7: Clay
    Round 8: Jones
    Round 9: Clay
    Round 10: Clay

    5-4-1 Clay
     
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  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Not particularly controversial for me.

    JONES: 1,2,6,8

    ALI: 3,4,5,7,9,10


    6-4 Ali
     
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