the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mantequilla, Nov 20, 2009.


  1. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft The Cobra Will Always Bite Back... Full Member

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    Vasyl Lomachenko vs Nicholas Walters

    An underrated win, over a genuine puncher. Loma takes him to school by all accounts; I've never seen this one before. This was the start of the 'NoMasChenko' 4 quit in a row reign.

    VL/NW
    10 : 9
    10 : 9
    10 : 9
    10 : 9 (40/36)
    10 : 9
    10 : 9
    10 : 9 (70/63)

    Loma took a power-punching behemoth to school here, and made the bigger guy completely useless. He shuffled around Walters' lead and started to work the body and break through his guard. Loma's defence on offence completely negated everything Walters wanted to do. He couldn't land and was getting beaten up by something as tangible as smoke. Lomachenko's strengths aren't even at full fruition yet! He's not even incorporated his nasty array of feints info his offence yet, that came a little bit later.

    Something which Jones and Kellerman touched on is that Lomachenko did was nullify Walters' biggest strength (his straight right) with his footwork and smarts.

    I wouldn't have said the Axeman was going to quit, but from the look on his face going to the corner, the writing was on the wall. The 7th round was turning into a beatdown too. Not to mention the little taunts at the end.
     
  2. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft The Cobra Will Always Bite Back... Full Member

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    Vasyl Lomachenko vs Guillermo Rigondeaux

    Rigo is the only fighter whom I once called favourite who's name I can't confidently spell nor pronounce. Headed into this he gave 7lbs or so to the man 8 years his junior, but he was listed by Ring as #7 P4P. I don't think I can possibly overstate the combined amateur pedigree of these two.

    I remember the buzz this one had, I was just getting into the sweet-science and my Dad told me this would be a great place to start. It wasn't, I found it boring and a waste of time, but let's see what my new-found knowledge of the sport, as I haven't watched it since that night.

    VL/GR
    10 : 9
    10 : 9
    10 : 9
    10 : 9
    10 : 9
    10 : 8 (60-53)

    Lots of stuttering from Rigo, he likes to use his length, 'shell up' and look for a collosal counter-punch from a wide stance, or get on his bike and use that monster reach to pick jabs off. Lomachenko's too smart to fall for that, winning the first round by working past Rigo's jab and out-working him. Rigo's plan was clearly to jab-jab-jab, cross and tie up Loma on the inside. That basic, amateur mindset/style, isn't what he needed here.

    In fact, basically all Rigo could do, after 2/3 rounds was hold. Because he couldn't keep Loma at range, which was his only way of winning, then when Loma got up close he was getting beaten up.

    Loma's shifting feet are so fluid he did a 360° around Rigo after he made The Jackal shell up. If someone is literally boxing circles around you, a man quitting shouldn't have been a big surprise.
     
  3. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft The Cobra Will Always Bite Back... Full Member

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    Vasyl Lomachenko vs Jorge Linares

    I liked this one, I thought it was a contender for FOTY back in 2018, but then again I hadn't really seen every fight that happened then, and certainly missed off Rungvisai/Estrada, which probably should've been it after GGG/Canelo 2. I actually remember a Rigo-esc buzz after this fight too. The marketing of "Fastest 3 weight-champion ever" really did a number on casual viewers.

    Anyway, I like both of these guys. Two supremely talented athletes, who have learned to box with the best of them. Although Linares should've lost to Campbell. :deal:

    VL/JL
    9 : 10
    9 : 10
    10 : 9
    10 : 9
    10 : 9 (48/47)
    8 : 10*
    9 : 10
    10 : 9
    10 : 9* (85/85 TOS)

    *Beautiful Right hand in the 6th, not hurting Loma in the slightest, but it was a beautiful punch. The product of a rare mistake, as Linares timed Loma as he squared up at mid range, without moving his head off the centre line.

    *Swing round, both did some really nice work.

    You can see how Loma has to fight a guy so much bigger here, completely abandoning his style from a few years prior where he would fight moving laterally at long range in between coming inside, since he was at a tremendous reach disadvantage. Either way, he showed his 'angles', footwork, smarts, level changes, feints, variety, inside game, power and heart in this fight.
     
  4. zadfrak

    zadfrak Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Yep. A pleasure watching a guy with a deep toolchest. And the capability and willingness to utilize it. Seems like the sport is filled with the other types---do a few things very well and that's it
     
  5. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft The Cobra Will Always Bite Back... Full Member

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    Vasyl Lomachenko vs Anthony Crolla

    Oof, not a pretty watch this one. Hate to see a Manny lad get beaten like a drum. I actually was following Crolla pretty heavily at this point too, I watched him vs Burns and Yordan live, and stayed up to watch this one. I said then that it was his best performance (although that may have been coming from poor memories of the Pedraza fights which I've watched and scored but it was so forgettable I didn't do a post or take notes), and after a rewatch I agree with myself. Loma risked a DQ in the 3rd, those two guys who jumped in seriously could've done him in.

    VL/AC
    10 : 9
    10 : 9
    10 : 8 (30-26 TOS)
    TKO4

    Great showing off power, this one. Crolla has a very good chin (Mathews aside) and Loma took his soul, and hit him so hard he broke his own hand. :lol:

    I'm pretty adamant that Lomachenko is a perfect fit for the same-day weigh in lightweight division. He's consistently come in just over 135 in every fight they've showed the weight for, and has looked the same size in every fight. I think he's probably on par with the Buchanan/Laguna/Ishimatsu crowd. Maybe a little bit better. Perhaps worse? Somewhere around there.
     
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  6. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft The Cobra Will Always Bite Back... Full Member

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    Vasyl Lomachenko vs Luke Campbell

    Ahh, Loma's best win (or at least top 2) and the 2nd best LW on Earth. **** what you heard. Cool Hand Luke would beat Teofimo, Tank and Haney. Schooling the first two quite comprehensively. Another one I actually remember happening, as I read the RBR, and watched it the next night. I actually figured Loma would stop Luke, but I was pleasantly surprised that one of Britain's best right now went the distance.

    Shows what aura of invincibility Loma has gained since this is one of his best wins and he's still a 14/1 favourite. There's no way Loma is 5'7, Campbell (billed 5'9) towers over him.

    VL/LC
    9 : 10
    9 : 10
    10 : 9
    10 : 9 (38/38)
    10 : 9
    10 : 9
    10 : 9
    10 : 9 (78/74)
    10 : 9
    10 : 9
    10 : 8
    10 : 9 (118/109)

    I'll never understand why this is used as a criticism of Lomachenko. He gave up a good 10lbs or so and scored a veritable shut out (with a KD!) over the #2 in his division. The only rounds you could argue for Campbell were 1, 2&7. I don't know what more you want from Lomachenko. I still find it funny how Barry Hearn tried to argue Campbell winning. I do hope Campbell wins a belt though, it'd be horrible if someone as good and game as him, didn't.

    Despite what I said about this not being a great place for fair criticism, it's not above analysis. Loma was hurt in the 7th, and that's not a good thing. Campbell is not a noted puncher, and if he can deal with Loma, in part, with body shots (as Salido did), then what about a master like Armstrong or Duran? Or even someone like Montgomery or Jack?
     
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Devon Alexander SD10 Lucas Martin Matthysse

    Pressure on both of these guys going in, probably a little unfairly in the case of Matthysse who lost a desperately close decision to Zab Judah (no robbery but I had it to Matthysse by a point). Alexander, on the other hand, had turned in that awkward can't continue/quit job against Tim Bradley and was laced for it...probably fairly.

    Alexander probably just about outspeed Matthysse in this round to take it by a sliver, but he is coping well with the style disadvantage, though to be fair to Alexander, he's not on the run. It's the Alexander southpaw jab against the Matthysse bodyattack in the second. Scratch that, Alexander introduced his trailing left in the second minute - i suspect he was outlanded there but he takes another close one. It's good, active work from Alexander who is off to a great start. Matthysse makes things tough for him in the final 8 seconds though.

    There's a stiffness to Alexander's work that frustrates. That fluidity though, it must be so difficult to learn. He's not a million miles away from being special but the shortfalls are such that his career feels a bit truncated. Still, he's one of the defining 140lb fighters of the last decade. As is Matthysse. Important fight then this, in its way. Alexander wins a highly arguable third and then Matthysse closes the gap in the fourth, flashing Alexander onto his backside, I think the first time Alexander down as a pro? Anyway, Alexander was leaning back to ditch the jab and tried to counter that jab, which he slipped, with his own jab and he got hit straight. Goes right back to control boxing in the fifth though.

    Matthysse lands some legitimately hurtful punches in the sixth and i'd say sneaks it over the active Alexander; nothing in this round in all honesty though, I give it to Matthysse on the harder punches. Matthysse picks up where he left off in the seventh and all of a sudden, Alexander is in a bit of trouble. He's getting hit hard through two rounds and clearly dropping the second of these; with the KD, the cards are getting very close. More of the same in the eighth. Alexander just suddenly looks like he wants to clinch a bit more, like he wants to pin Matthysse's arm inside, he needs a rally here. On the other hand it's nice having a couple of rounds that are easy to score!

    So Alexander needs the ninth and tenth to win the fight, Matthysse needs just one of them. He's favourite to do so outside of the numeric advantage - he's been delivering punishment to the gut while Alexander has shoe-shined upstairs. Alexander needs his jab back (he dumped it in the seventh and eighth) and he needs to outthrow and outland his man. He's on his toes again - moving well, Matthysse suddenly looks a little sluggish, straight left right hook lands...moving off, foraging punches, countering well, there's a pair of right hands. This is an Alexander round!

    Could have done without the last round being so close...hard...decides the whole fight. I think, probably, that the slightly harder Mattysse shots carry it. Alexander doesn't get it all his own way this time, Lucas is just a little nearer and Alexander looks a little more ragged again. So I have it to Mattysse by a point on the strength of the knockdown. Close, gripping fight.

    Alexander: 1,2,3,5,9.
    Matthysse: 4*,6,7,8,10.

    *Alexander down.
     
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Lucas Martin Matthysse MD12 Ruslan Provodnikov

    Braaaaaaaawwwlllllll. Lucas always knocking boys down, getting knocked down a little bit, bit face first, powerful, good pressure. Ruslan, gone to work for Freddie Roach, the Siberian Rocky, living up to his title probably. It's Lucas in the first, found that left hook early, sticking out a hard jab and most of all, making room for himself with feet, controlling the distance, choosing for himself when they will fight. Ruslan not seeking to dispute any of this yet. In the second, he continues to provide target practice and gets cut bad to the left eye. Heads.

    You can see, clearly, by eye, that Provodnikov is getting closer in the third. And he almost wins that round. It's close and he's still gets hit too much to take it but close. Ruslan has his head on the shoulder of Lucas in the fourth; when the referee separates them, he runs in to close the distance. He takes the fourth. Very good fight. Lucas opens the crucial fifth with a sharp jab though, Ruslan comes back with a stiff right hand. He is winging these; missing to hit. Lucas abandons the jab a bit in this round, sort of feeling his man out with it rather than planting it. That's Ruslan's game, i'm not sure about that...he does re-introudce it in the final thirty seconds and I think it's enough to nick the round. Hopefully he's learned that lesson.

    What a combination to open the sixth for Lucas, left,right,left uppercut, yummy. He's mixing in the uppercuts through this first minute, giving ground, seeing Ruslan just moving forwards, stepping in with the uppercut, it's out of the textbook but it's an approach that is clearly working here. Provodnikov's chin is granite. Lucas wins that sixth round huge, not a million miles from 10-8.

    Lucas looks relaxed now, very relaxed. He's looking for bodyshots too. God bless Ruslan, he is still plodding in, still looking for the bodyshot but he's been beat up here. How tf does this end in a split? I suppose you could argue the third for Ruslan, so that would be 4-2, let's see what happens in the second half of the fight.

    I gave him the argument in the eighth. It's disputable, but he does corner Lucas at the end of the round and hits him a couple of punches; good right hand to close the round. Lucas dominated long spells of the round though. And here comes the charge; he's edged the ninth, too, on my card. So i have him needing all remaining rounds for the draw. Lucas does look a little tired. He stops the rot in the tenth though, making the fight safe on my card.

    Wtf is Provodnikov made of? He's been thrashed and his best round of the fight is arguably the eleventh, his face a mass of gore, those eyes seemingly unblinking in stalking his man. You'd want this guy in your foxhole I think.

    Fight is borderline classic, borderline great.

    115-113 Mattysse

    Matthysse:1,2,3,5,6,7,10.
    Provodnikov:4,8,9,11,12.
     
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  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Jose Carlos Ramirez UD12 Antonio Orozco

    Ramirez is a very good and interesting fighter and he's one of the guys i'm most sad I won't see in 2020. 2020, suck my balls.

    Both unbeaten, both ranked in the top ten, a very good world title fight. You can see they're both lively and on their toes, Ramirez looking to establish the jab, fights short than his height but gives ground to bring Orozco onto his punches. Referee wants to let them fight inside and Ramirez surprises by dominating these exchanges in the first round, albeit with one punch, the left hook to the body. In fact, he tattoos Orozco with left hooks throughout.

    Ramirez is a little ugly, a little ungainly, and there isn't much guile, but he's boxing off a technically sure jab and he doesn't leave space between the punches. He likes combinations and he doesn't rush himself into Orozco's space because he knows Orozco is going to be there. Orozco just looks a little like he's on for the ride; becoming reluctant to lead I think he lets Ramirez go first every time.

    Heavy, heavy knockdown in the fourth. Ramirez swarms Orozco into disorganised retreat and then gets hit by a big right hand. Orozco shows great punch resistance and heart to survive the onslaught behind this KD. Worryingly one-sided but Orozco won't give up! No question of the ref getting involved, Orozco still throwing.

    He boxes back well in the fifth, too,makes it close, and grabs the sixth on my card. In the eighth though, he gets tagged bad again, to the body, and suddenly Orozco has a low guard and his movement is slowed to a crawl...another left hook to the body and it's another count for the brave Orozco who is having a very difficult night. He was never the same again after this fight; he never recovered.

    The rest is hard to watch for that reason, but Ramirez is really good, can't wait to see what it is going to take to beat him.

    119-107, same as the judges.

    RAMIREZ:1,2,3,4*,5,7, 8*,9,10,11,12.
    OROZCO:6.

    *Orozco down.
     
  10. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails Full Member

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    Victor Galindez vs Marvin Johnson

    Galindez : Johnson

    1: 9 - 10 (Johnson much more active)
    2: 10 - 9 (Infight! Galindez countering)
    3: 9 - 10 (Johnson working and mauling)
    4: 10 - 10 (Glancing shots. Shifts of momentum)
    5: 9 - 10 (Galindez mostly passive)
    6: 9 - 10 (Galindez just not doing enough)
    7: 10 - 10 (Close)
    8: 8 - 10 (Johnson winning on pure activity)
    9: 10 - 9 (Swing)
    10: 9 - 10 (Galindez hurt)
    11: KO - a crisp left hand.

    TOTAL: 98 - 94 JOHSNON

    Notes:
    • Galindez much too passive here. If he double jabbed Johnson from the body to head, then worked, he would've given him a lot of trouble IMO. Instead he looked tired and pissed it away.
     
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  11. Jel

    Jel Reserving the right to be inconsistent Full Member

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    Matthew Saad Muhammad v Vonzell Johnson

    Saad comes from behind to stop challenger - that's never been written before!

    In truth, this wasn't the high drama of a Pops Johnson or Yaqui Lopez comeback but Saad trying to figure out an awkward challenger who used his obvious edges in height and reach to his advantage (seriously, how does a 6ft 4inch well-built fighter like him fit into 175lbs on a same day weigh in?) before Saad managed to turn it into a slug fest in round 9 and swing the fight firmly his way.

    Johnson was a good challenger but Saad showed his mental strength as ever to pressure him into a fight he couldn't win.

    1 9-10 (close)
    2 9-10 (Saad trying to close the gap but Vonzell controlling from the outside with his jab)
    3 9-10 (close)
    4 10-9
    5 9-10
    6 10-9 (bogus knockdown call from ref)
    7 9-10
    8 10-9 (Johnson is putting up an excellent challenge but Saad landed well at the end to edge it)
    9 10-10 (best action of the fight)
    10 10-9 (Saad closing the gap literally and figuratively)
    (95-96)
    11 Saad TKO Johnson (genuine knockdown this time followed by overzealous refereeing to stop the fight)
     
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Jose Carlos Ramirez MD12 Jose Zepeda

    Great, great first round from Zepeda, this is going to be interesting. I think i mentioned in the last fight, can't remember, but Ramirez is a bit untidy and he needs his jab. The work that comes behind it is fulsome but it isn't tidy, not awful, just a bit rugged. The jab is technically excellent. So Zepeda is taking that away in the first, pivoting when he feels the pressure, tossing his own jab, concentrating on his movement. He wins the first round on generalship alone, but he does some minimal landing, too. Second is easy pickings too. Still no jabbing from Ramirez. He sort of replaces it with a right hand to the body at the start of the third though, getting closer, hitting "anything" with the right, which he lands with power (both sides have power). Ramirez probably wins this round in the final seconds; I also thought he took the fourth. Zepeda's caught a few and Ramirez is doing well closing the distance now in my view. I think Zepeda is a little too quick to retreat now whereas before he was moving away thoughtfully, carefully.

    Ramirez is taking over the fight for me by the end of the fifth.

    Good sixth for Zepeda though, three good counter-left hands in the final minute seal it. It's worth remarking that the commentary team disagree with me on 3 and 5 and have Zepeda with a handy lead; I have it even. Zepeda is wearing his right hand low but he has his elbow propped over his kidney and with this one simple adjustment he's neutralised Ramirez's fearsome hook to the body. Future Ramirez fights will pay attention to this fight. Still, Zepeda looks like he wants to rest in the seventh and there's no question Ramirez' gets it. He also gets the eighth; he has a huge finish, landing the left hook to the body for the first time and landing a right hand, too.

    So I now have a major divergence with the commentary team. They have Ramirez in trouble on the cards, I have Ramirez coasting to victory after early difficulties; interestingly they go a little quiet when it's revealed that compubox has Ramriez outlanding Zepeda by distance on power-punches.

    Ramirez is boss here. Won it without too much trouble for me. Official cards: 114-114, 115-113, 116-112. I had it 116-112. Nothing to see here.

    But it was a very good, well contested, hearty fight. I liked watching this a lot.

    Ramirez:3,4,5,7,8,9,10,11.
    Zepeda:1,2,6,12.
     
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  13. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Every so often we come across a dud, and I did today. Eddie Mustafa Muhammad (still Eddie Gregory back then) against Jesse Burnett in a scheduled 10 rounder. Looked good on paper, but 9 rounds of one fighter waiting for the other fighter to do something.

    Round 1: 10-10 Even
    Round 2: 10-9 Burnett
    Round 3: 10-9 Gregory
    Round 4: 10-10 Even
    Round 5: 10-9 Gregory
    Round 6: 10-9 Gregory
    Round 7: 10-9 Burnett
    Round 8: 10-9 Burnett
    Round 9: 10-9 Gregory
    Round 10: Gregory stops Burnett

    Total (through 9 completed rounds): 87-86 Gregory

    Man, what a listless fight. On top of that I'm sure I heard the announcing team of Ryan and Clancy say something to the effect that Gregory was a substitute for Victor Galindez who injured himself on a motorcycle. Burnett should have felt lucky. Showing up in the apparent poor condition he was in would have been an invite to murder against Galindez at that stage of the game. Anyways, best to avoid this fight.
     
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  14. Jel

    Jel Reserving the right to be inconsistent Full Member

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    Juan Manuel Marquez v Michael Katsidis

    Excellent fight with one brave and good fighter being beaten by a demonstrably great one. Katsidis did everything he could to win this fight but he was meeting a guy who just had a superior toolkit.

    What more can you say about Marquez? He has everything a great fighter needs - solid defense and sound fundamentals with good power plus astonishing recuperative abilities (the left hook he got up from without a wobble was the kind of punch fighters normally don't recover from, given the way he went down); his ring IQ is very high, his ability to adapt midfight a mark of rare ability.

    The only thing he maybe lacks is that individual spark of genius that marked the greatest of the great from other ATGs but maybe that's overly harsh - he's pretty much the complete package and could have hung in any era in my view.

    1 10-9
    2 10-9
    (close. Very good action as Katsidis more aggressive but Marquez picking him off well)
    3 8-10
    (terrific round. Marquez is felled by a wicked left hook by Katsidis)
    4 10-9
    (another close one but Marquez took it)
    5 10-9
    (Katsidis is competing really well but getting outlanded due to Marquez's superior accuracy)
    6 9-10
    (excellent round, the best Katsidis has had since the 3rd. Katsidis definitely got the better of it before they traded evenly before the bell)
    7 10-9
    (just tremendous stuff from these two)
    8 10-9
    (still terrific action but Katsidis is getting countered hard and is looking like he's starting to feel the cumulative effect of all those punches Marquez has thrown off the ropes)
    (77-74)
    9 Marquez TKO Katsidis
    (Katsidis finally falls apart under the assault from Marquez. Kenny Bayliss's intervention was immaculate)
     
  15. Jel

    Jel Reserving the right to be inconsistent Full Member

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    Matthew Saad Muhammad v Jerry Martin

    Hindsight is 20/20 but my impression is that Saad had past his peak here and was starting to run on empty. Certainly, the Saad who appeared less than three months later against Dwight Braxton was not noticeably worse than this version. All the hard fights he had been through over the previous 4 years seemed to have caught up with him. It was just that Jerry Martin wasn't quite good enough to expose it yet - it would take Braxton/Qawi to reveal that Saad was spent.

    Was the stoppage premature? I don't think so. Martin was close to going at the end of the previous round so when he went at the beginning of the 11th, I think Larry Hazard took it as a clear indication he was done.

    1 9-10 (Martin starts aggressively, stalking Saad and getting the better of the round, fighting in close)
    2 10-10 (phone booth action as Martin tries to smother Saad, who fights back well at the end to take a share of the round)
    3 10-9 (Saad turns stalker and appears to hurt Martin near the end of the round
    4 9-10 (close)
    5 10-9 (close)
    6 9-10 (not a lot in this)
    7 9-10 (clear round for Martin who is living up to his nickname of The Bull, mauling Saad against the ropes)
    8 10-9 (you'd never confuse Saad for a matador but he does enough counter attacking here against The Bull to take the round clearly)
    9 10-9 (Saad just edges it with the biggest punches of the round at the end)
    10 10-9 (gruelling back and forth action, pendulum swinging to and fro with Saad finishing stronger again)
    (96-95)
    11 Saad Muhammad TKO Martin
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2020


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