the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mantequilla, Nov 20, 2009.


  1. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft The Cobra Will Always Bite Back... Full Member

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    Anyone here scored Pac/JMM II or Eubank/Watson I? That's the plan for today.
     
  2. Jel

    Jel Reserving the right to be inconsistent Full Member

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    Did the Marquez-Pacquiao fights as part of FOTW #8.
     
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  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Watson-Eubank I is the toughest fight to score IMO. Or rather, there is no fight that is harder to score, just fights that are as hard. I have had it to Watson and i've had it a draw, never had it to Eubank, but those rounds, a lot of them are tough.

    Pacquiao-Marquez II i had to Marquez close.
     
  4. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft The Cobra Will Always Bite Back... Full Member

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    Manny Pacquiao vs Juan Manuel Márquez II

    This was the absolute peak of both men imo, Márquez was a bit of a late-bloomer, Nacho's guys normally had some freakish longevity. Obviously this is a bit controversial (everyone of these are lol) but iirc I had Pac winning by a point last time, although I can't find a card to back that up. Pacquiao rehydrated 16lbs overnight for this one, the guy was a welterweight. I maintain that Pacquiao was best suited for 140. I actually don't know which of these I like more, both are awesome! I might lean slightly towards Pacquiao, but I like Márquez loads too.

    Pac/JMM
    10 : 9*
    9 : 10*
    10 : 8
    10 : 9 (39/36)
    9 : 10*
    9 : 10
    10 : 9*
    9 : 10 (76/75)
    10 : 9*
    10 : 9
    9 : 10*
    9 : 10 (114/113)

    All of the starred are swing rounds.... can see why it was debated over.
    _______________________
    God damn, what a fight, eh? I preferred this one over the first and third, it was a high-class technical fight at times and a vicious war at others.

    Pac's new-found skills gave Márquez a new challenge as he had to decode and unravel the conundrum of athleticsm and angles, which he often did with counters, timing and lateral movement. The pattern of this one was often that Pacquiao threw more with a lot of power, but didn't land as clean as Márquez.

    The punch in the third was wicked, so short and accurate. Made the difference on my card.

    Now I have a full set of scores for these fights:

    #1: Pac 115-112
    #2: Pac 114-113
    #3: JMM 116-112
    #4: Pac 47-46 TOS
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2020
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  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Devon Alexander UD12 Andriy Kotelnik

    The unforgettable night in 2010 that Max Kellerman predicted that Devon Alexander would be a future p4p #1. Tbf, he was very impressive against Urango.

    In the other corner, Andriy Kotelnik, coming off a loss to Amir Khan but still considered a significant contender.

    Alexander definitely looks fast and in the mood, he is very, very busy in this first round, despite Kotelnik having some success with his jab, Alexander just wins it on volume and tidy. So far this feels like a really great spar.

    It's interesting how much Alexander seems to be relying upon his volume so heavily. He'd be behind if not for the volume IMO. Kotelnik landing the slightly better shots - and at a higher rate, too. It's not quite enough to keep him in control of the fight though, Kotelnik looks limber in contrast to that Alexander stiffness.

    And it shows on the scorecards. Alexander is struggling and he looks less than electric - I have him 4-3 up after seven, but losing three on the spin - Harold Lederman has him 5-1 up after six! This is the biggest difference between he and I ever, I quite like his scoring usually. But Kotelnik is landing good punches and he is boxing with far more economy and just looks more relaxed. He's also outstanding Alexander in some rounds despite the huge dearth in volume. Alexander puts his foot down a bit in the eighth; I thought he stopped the rot in that round. His corner is concerned though, and they should be, Kotelnik punches back in the ninth. Alexander is cut up and looks in a bit of trouble to me.

    I have it 5-4 Alexander after nine, Harold Lederman has it 8-1 Alexander. Kotelnik clearly out-jabbing Kotelnik in the 10th for me so it's all square. Alexander out-pops him in the eleventh though before a tight twelfth goes his way too. I didn't really enjoy this fight, I just am not a lover of Alexander's style.

    7-5 Alexander. All judges had it 8-4 Alexander. Lederman had it 10-2.

    Alexander:1,2,3,4,8,11,12.
    Kotelnik:5,6,7,9,10.
     
  6. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I agree with McGrain - tough fight to score and we all seem to come up with differing scores on this one. I scored this a month or so back. Here is what I wrote:

    Chris Eubank v Michael Watson I

    Round 1: 10-10 Even
    Round 2: 10-9 Eubank
    Round 3: 10-10 Even
    Round 4: 10-9 Eubank
    Round 5: 10-9 Eubank
    Round 6: 10-9 Watson
    Round 7: 10-9 Eubank
    Round 8: 10-10 Even
    Round 9: 10-9 Eubank
    Round 10: 10-9 Watson
    Round 11: 10-10 Even
    Round 12: 10-9 Eubank

    Total: 118-114 Eubank

    Actual scores: 116-113, 115-113 both for Eubank and a 114-114 Even card for a majority win for Eubank.

    To begin, I did a little check of the history on this thread and found our posters at 3-2-1 for Eubank (excluding my card), so it is a controversial fight, as one can see by my 4 even rounds. But let me start with Watson. I've seen him fight twice against Benn and McCallum, but I was unimpressed here. Eubank fought in bursts and Watson stuck with fundamentals, but he fought with no fire and his jab appeared to me like it was always coming up a bit short. It was touching Eubank, but just. And those last four rounds where Eubank was clearly fatigued, it was Eubank flailing like a desperate man trying to hold onto his bauble rather than Watson trying to take it. Watson caught a lot of Eubank's blows on his arms but he needed to fight with a bit more fire, which made the difference on my card.
     
  7. Jel

    Jel Reserving the right to be inconsistent Full Member

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    I had them as follows:
    #1: Pac 114-113
    #2: JMM 115-113
    #3: JMM 117-113
    #4 I didn't score.

    1 and 2 could have gone either way in my view; number 3 was a clear win for Marquez and number 4 - well, no debate on the winner there!
     
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  8. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I've been on a Juan Manuel Marquez kick lately and today I checked out his fight with Joel Casamayor. It wasn't the slam-bang affair usually associated with JMM fights as their orthodox/southpaw styles caused a bit of clunking of heads and Casamayor liked to counter. His left ws very adept. You'd rarely see an exchange that didn't end with a Casamayor left hook ending the exchange. Eventually JMM was finding the lead right getting home. But outside of the 11th round there wasn't a lot to write home about if you like pure action. But I did appreciate the skill-level of both fighters.

    Round 1: 10-10 Even
    Round 2: 10-9 Casamayor
    Round 3: 10-9 JMM
    Round 4: 10-9 JMM
    Round 5: 10-10 Even
    Round 6: 10-9 JMM
    Round 7: 10-9 JMM
    Round 8: 10-9 Casamayor
    Round 9: 10-9 JMM
    Round 10: 10-9 JMM
    Round 11: JMM drops Casamayor twice and the ref stops the bout

    Total (through 10 completed rounds): 98-94 JMM (actual scores 95-95, 95-95 and a 97-93 for JMM)

    Before looking at the final scores I thought there was going to be some wildly differing scores here as most of these rounds were extremely tight and could have reasonably gone either way. Again, lacking in thrills and chills through 10 rounds but very good tactically.
     
  9. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft The Cobra Will Always Bite Back... Full Member

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    Chris Eubank vs Michael Watson I

    If McGrain's word hold even a single iota of truth (and I fail to see why they wouldn't), then it looks like I'm gonna be vigilant scoring this one. Alas, I love Watson and I quite like Chris too.

    CE/MW
    9 : 10*
    10 : 9
    9 : 10
    10 : 9 (38/38)
    9 : 10*
    9 : 10
    10 : 9*
    10 : 9 (76/76)
    9 : 10
    9 : 10
    9 : 10
    10 : 9* (113/115)

    Same again, astrix marks a swing round.
    _______________________
    Tough fight to score, and not particularly interesting either. Despite being much harder to watch, the 2nd was a much better fight imo.

    Watson did have much more success as Eubank's patience grew thin, as when Mike didn't need to lead he was in his comfort zone and could parry Eubank's sloppier offence and pick his shots with counters. Whereas early on both were boxing within themselves and it was pretty even, since Eubank was more comfortable in his position, but didn't throw as much.

    I might be bias to Waston here but he clearly won his rounds easier than Eubank did imo, you'd have to have given a lot of even rounds or a lot of the benefit of the doubt to Chris for him to have got this one imo.
     
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  10. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Placating my JMM fixation, I scored the Marquez - Pacquiao I fight today. This is the first time I've seen it since I saw it live back in '04 I believe. Back then I believe I had it a draw or maybe JMM by a point. Anyways, here we go.

    Round 1: 10-6 Pac (scores 3 knockdowns)
    Round 2: 10-9 Pac
    Round 3: 10-9 JMM
    Round 4: 10-9 Pac
    Round 5: 10-9 JMM
    Round 6: 10-9 JMM
    Round 7: 10-10 Even
    Round 8: 10-10 Even
    Round 9: 10-9 JMM
    Round 10: 10-9 Pac
    Round 11: 10-9 JMM
    Round 12: 10-9 JMM

    Total: 114-113 Pac (actual scores: 115-110 Pac, 115-110 JMM and 113-113 Draw for a draw decision)

    That was a mountain for JMM to climb after that first round and, although I had it for Pac by a point, I'm good with the Draw.
     
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  11. Jel

    Jel Reserving the right to be inconsistent Full Member

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    I had the same score, Scar.
     
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  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Mikey Garcia UD12 Adrien Broner

    There was nothing better in boxing in the last few years than watching Adrien Broner getting beat. He embarrassed himself with this non-performance against Mickey Garcia, and at 140lbs, the weight where he failure had eluded him.

    Anyway, very boring first, Garcia clearly wins it on a good left hand to the body, 30 seconds remaining. Broner doesn't want to fight early, moving and running a lot, holding over that front foot in that weird hunched way when he does decide to box him. Second round is a replay right down to the deciding factor being a bodypunch, though it was a right to the body. Dual left hooks to the head decides the third. Nothing much coming back from Broner here. These are clear rounds. Garcia has just absolutely boxed Broner's offence, he looks scared to throw.

    Broner more aggressive in the fourth, Garcia just waits for him and mostly out-hits him countering, or at least waiting for his turn then throwing better punches. H also appears to have a stalking jab beginning to work for him. The bodyshots remain the difference for me. He's keeping very close to Broner with good footwork, neat footwork, his cutting is very nice; Broner finishes the round in the corner then on the rope. Judges find 4 and 3 rounds for Broner. I wonder where they are going to come from?

    Broner holds the line in the fifth, refusing to back up, claims ring centre - and he does far better. Garcia dries him back though and lands another excellent pair of bodyshots to poach this one, too. Still Broner probably knows what he is doing now. Eighth is weird. Garcia drops his hands and stalks Broner around the ring, missing him while making an odd face. He does eventually get Broner to the ropes and lands a bodyshot and two thirds of an uppercut. Then outcracks him ring-centre. But Broner shades the ninth! A couple of nice bodyshots, ironically, late. No idea what his actual gameplan is though. Very close 10th. Garcia outworks Broner in the early part of the round, Broner lands a couple of good shots down the stretch though; Garcia spends the final thirty seconds up on his toes, showing him something different. Probably Broner wins a very close one.

    I quite enjoyed it in the end. It was too one-sided to be exciting but it was fun to see Mikey box and Broner get beaten up.

    I managed to find three rounds for Broner in the end, too, like one of the judges.

    117-111 Mikey.

    Mikey: 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,11.
    Broner: 9,10,12.
     
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Mikey Garcia UD12 Sergey Lipinets

    Big fights this. New lineage started for Garcia here. Lipinets inexperienced as a boxer but not at combat, some sort of wild kickboxing champion. I always owner what would happen to one of these kickboxer if they got really hurt and forgot themselves and started winging kicks. Anyway, it's a very quiet opening but I enjoyed looking at Sergey's fluid crossarm defence and Mikey land a couple of good jabs. Mikey clearly wins the round with a nice pair of one-twos in the last minute - he's faster and he's found his range first, Sergey will drop early rounds i suspect. Yeah, Mikey's right hand looks on tonight. He's boxing cautiously, gloves high, small moves away from the left hook, Mikey's such a ****ing adult. He batters Sergey a bit in this round.

    Very very good adjustment from Sergey. He's been getting it so he comes out very aggressive, jabbing, right hands to the body, busts up Garcia's nose; Garcia retaliates - he does that as well as anybody, really - but I think Sergey's fast start sneaks the round. It feels "false" though, like Mikey got a fright but won a chunk of the rest of the round once he knew what he was doing. Nose might be damaged though. This might explain why h looked slightly tentative in the fourth; you'd almost say it looked like something was going wrong for Garcia. But he cuts loose at the half way mark and tattoos Sergey with the one-two. Weird round, tough to scare if i'm honest because I was impressed with Sergey's early running, but it's Mikey Garcia. Important feeling round.

    Now in the fifth they begin to try to establish their jabs versus one-another's. Mikey is quicker, bUt Sergey ditches a right hand nice, ouch, gets tagged with the left hook instead, but he's the one surging - narrow lead in this round after a minute. Lipinets is very good defensively, that's so impressive. I mean Garcia is a patient technician with great economy who is fast, horrible test for a defensive fighter. Some very good adjustments in this fight - waiting was getting him tanned, so Sergey came out aggressive, Mikey was losing his right hand so now he's throwing more left hooks. I really like this fight a lot. Sergey drops another very close round though. This is a good fight but it is getting one-sided - Sergey needs the sixth.

    The corner wants Mikey back to the right hand, but behind a double-jab. Let's see. Two good right hands by Sergey to start off, one up, one down, Mikey drops two of his own! Doesn't bother with the double jab haha. This is great action, Sergey swarms him to the ropes, Mikey comes battling out. Sergey wins this key sixth though, on the bodywork. 4-2 at half way and Sergey still in it. He meets with disaster in the seventh though, undoing all that good work, down for the first time in his career. That's after another fast start that put him right in the round, too, but instead of closing the gap for real, he's sucked up some heavy right hands, been countered by a gorgeous left hook after coming far too square, and although he was up after a quick count, he appears hurt and was cut. No real urgency from Mikey in closing the show and probably that's because he knew he now had it something like sewn up. I have Sergey needing all remaining rounds now.

    Sergey actually has a good eighth but looks visibly tired down the stretch and Mikey sees it. Steals it from him. Very good judgement of his opponent's condition. Sergey lands a good left hook in the ninth though and combined with the pressure, arguably does enough but there are some savage blows exchanged in this round. On his way to winning the tenth, too, but he gets hit by a hard left hook and then a nasty right hand on the bell. Mikey has done so well stealing rounds with cleaner work, a defining example of this actually. So frustrating for the worker in the fight.

    Sergey has never given up though and has really impressed me here. Has picked up a decent Ko win against Lamont Peterson since. Soundly beaten here though by a better man.

    Thoroughly enjoyed this fight.

    Mikey:1,2,4,5,7*,8,10,11,12.
    Sergey:3,6,9.

    *Sergey down.

    117-110 Mikey Garcia.
     
  14. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft The Cobra Will Always Bite Back... Full Member

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    Junior Jones vs Orlando Cañizales

    Good little fight, this one. Glad @roughdiamond brought it to my attention. Cañizales looked a little fleshy as an older fighter at 122lbs. Like Rough said, not hard to score.

    JJ/OC
    9 : 10
    10 : 9
    10 : 9
    10 : 9 (39/37)
    9 : 10
    9 : 10
    10 : 9
    10 : 9 (77-75)
    10 : 9
    10 : 9
    10 : 9
    10 : 9 (117-111)

    There's a couple rounds which were close (6&11) but other than that I had no issues with scoring.

    Whilst I love Orlando's style (and also his defence on offense), I agreed with Rough saying that this shows Cañizales's ineffectiveness at ring-cutting. Orlando meandered after Jones at points, and relied on Junior squaring up or slowing down to land much.
     
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  15. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft The Cobra Will Always Bite Back... Full Member

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    Little Red vs Juan Malvarez

    For Mr. @The Morlocks.

    Lopez down in the first! Great action, Malvarez coming in with his lead right and often following up with a left hook. Lopez battles back (as per) and in the second.... KABOOM!!!!! Malvarez tries the same thing again and then Lopez times him with the very same combination. Malvarez wasn't getting up, and was still down a good 15 seconds after the count was over.

    I've seen cleaner KOs, I won't lie; but rarely do you find a bigger heart than Little Red's.
     
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