the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Ok, I see where you're coming from a bit more now but I don't know though. Like you say, he wasn't Michael Nunn in the boxing department and I'd say his two wins over Tommy Hearns and world titles in 3 weight classes suggests he may have actually over achieved.

 

Mandell vs McLarnin

Mandell was an excellent fighter and he's actually one I often feel isn't remembered as well as he should be.

With a questionable chin and very poor power I can see how others overtook him, but man could he dance about the ring.

He spams that jab and is perpetually moving about on his feet. An absolute defensive wizard for sure.

On his day, this man could beat anyone with that movement. And he proves it against his ultimate stylistic nightmare here.

If you are going to beat someone like Mandell, short of timing a huge ko shot, you need to walk him down with the jab and pin him against the ropes, here he showed even a ridiculously strong man at the weight wouldn't always have enough to beat him.

Great showing by a great fighter.

 

Canzoneri vs Berg2

I can't get over the style of Canzoneri. I've never looked into him in as much detail as I have presently.

He moves his feet very economically like Bernard Hopkins does. He fights with his hands low like Roy Jones does. He relies on his head movement for defence like Muhammad Ali does. But its his sharp shooting that is the most unique feature about him. He is constantly looking for openings and the exploits them no matter what shot is required to throw.

He throws lead hooks, lead uppercuts, lead straights, he very rarely sets things up with the jab.

It's just bizarre.

In fact the fighter I feel has best replicated the style since is Anderson Silva in Ufc.

I mean to stand in the pocket with your hands down, and assume you can slip and counter from any angle, it's just not something we see any more.

The boxer that reminds me most of Canzoneri is Pacquiao, not necessarily style wise, just in terms of having a way of fighting that on paper shouldn't work, yet really does.

I'm going to watch a lot more of Canzoneri but these are my current thoughts right now so I'm very much just thinking out loud here.

 

Next on my list is Canzoneri vs Chocolate. Whilst I've seen it before I've never sat down and scored it.

I'm looking forward to this because I want to see on a round for round basis how successful it can be against the very aesthetic style of Chocolate.

Kid Chocolate basically fights like the master technicians of today so I'm going to give this fight a proper scorecard. And there's no way I'm gonna manage that at this time of night so I guess that's it for the night.

 

Enjoying your contributions at the moment. Keep 'em coming!

 

I go through cycles with boxing.

It gets to the point where I feel saturated and like I don't need any more boxing knowledge in my life, so I stop with the historical stuff, downgrade myself to casual fan and just enioy the domestic boxing scene.

But then one of those domestic guys gets a big title shot, usually loses and every so often the guy who beats him will be good enough to cause an itch and make me want to rewatch the greats.

So as it stands right now I'm back on full boxing geek mode so I'll be posting as much as I can until my itch is scratched!

 

I was saying the same sort of thing about his performance in his first fight with Lou Ambers. He rarely does the exact same thing twice which makes it hard to predict how he's going to attack next. Even after Ambers made adjustments, Canzoneri would shape shift again. Must have been tough to fight against but a more orthodox fighter than Ambers in Barney Ross found a way to beat him twice (even if they were close) while a modern style fighter like Kid Chocolate couldn't solve him.

 

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10 : 9
10 : 8
9 : 10
9 : 10 (38/37)
10 : 9
9 : 10
9 : 10
9 : 10 (75/76)
10 : 9
10 : 9
10 : 9
10 : 8 (

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Very fun fight, albeit a pain in the arse to score. I thought Rosario really let this one slip away from him, at times. I had him as a decisive winner, but from rounds 3-8 he was very lazy, and did a lot of bobbing, weaving and a lot of missing. Whereas Davis looked the same the whole way through: fast, fluid and tough, but open, unaware and inexperienced.

Some of the right hands Rosario landed downstairs were savage.

 

I just wrote that one up myself, g I ad you liked it. Our scores differed just a bit but as you mention, it's tough to score in some ways. And yes, those rights to the body were like Rosario was chopping down a tree, all props to Davis for taking those fairly unflinching.

Ever score Rosario-Ramirez 1? Another one where Rosario just scrapes by, and a highly underrated fight too.

 

Just scored this one myself recently. Here is how I had it.

Round 1: 10-9 Rosario
Round 2: 10-8 Rosario (scores a knockdown)
Round 3: 10-9 Davis
Round 4: 10-10 Even
Round 5: 10-10 Even
Round 6: 10-9 Davis
Round 7: 10-9 Davis
Round 8: 10-9 Davis
Round 9: 10-9 Davis
Round 10: 10-9 Rosario
Round 11: 10-10 Even
Round 12: 10-8 Rosario (scores a knockdown)

Total: 115-114 Rosario

 

How did you score Ramirez-Rosario, Scar? I forget....

 

Here you go

Round 1: 10-9 Rosario
Round 2: 10-10 Even
Round 3: 10-9 Rosario
Round 4: 10-9 Ramirez
Round 5: 10-9 Rosario
Round 6: 10-9 Rosario
Round 7: 10-9 Ramirez
Round 8: 10-9 Ramirez
Round 9: 10-10 Even
Round 10: 10-9 Ramirez
Round 11: 10-9 Rosario
Round 12: 10-9 Ramirez

Total: 115-115 Draw

 

Nah, it's on the way. I had a bunch of Chapo fights lined up before I finish the Nelson batch. Ramirez 1 (and 2), Randall 1&2 and Camacho are the ones I had planned.

 

Tony Canzoneri vs Kid Chocolate.

1:9-10
2:9-10
3:10-9
4:10-9
5:10-9

Round 1 is a microcosm of everything that comes after it. Chocolate boxes with his Cuban style, jabbing from range, skipping away from trouble, showing insane handspeed. Canzoneri fights the round 3 different ways, first he tries his usual sharp shooting style, sniping openings, but soon realises Chocolate is leaving no openings and can comfortably jab and move all night. So he gives up the ghost there and tries to jab with Chocolate, obviously Kid has an advantage in hand speed and Canzoneri does not really make any in roads with the jab. Lastly he goes on the offence, coming in sometimes behind the jab, sometimes in a crouch, and sometimes in an almost peekaboo stance and once in range he counters on the front foot, peppering hooks. This he does find success with. However I feel the round was razor close and Kid was able to fight his fight throughout the round.

The second sees Canzoneri come out with the front foot counters and he seems to be doing well out of it, but Chocolate spins him against the ropes and they have quite a lengthy exchange, it's tough to know just how many punches Canzoneri ate and slipped, but for me it looked like Chocolate got the better of it.

Rounds 3-5 play out in the same way. Canzoneri pressures on that front foot, countering in the pocket, forcing Chocolate on the retreat, Chocolate will then try to stand his ground and sit down on some shots, leaving Canzoneri with openings to snipe. I think there was a no count knockdown at one point as well.

Incredible ring IQ on display here, at this point I don't see how Chocolate will be able to get much ground as Canz is beating him with his simultaneous game plan.

6:9-10
7:9-10
8:10-9
9:10-9
10:9-10

Chocolate gets right back in his rhythm for the middle third. In fact he goes full modern boxing master here as he flicks out his jab and dances away, and smothers the work of Tony whenever he gets in close. The thing for me is Chocolate has a massive style advantage here, but there's a balance because if he becomes too active, he leaves openings and Canzoneri will exploit them. If he is too passive, he spends the fight running and Canzoneri gets the rounds on ring generalship, so Chocolate is constantly finding the correct activity balance and Canzoneri is constantly staying one step ahead.

After losing the 6th and 7th Canzoneri changes it up again, he jabs to the body and counters over the top with a right hand, because he isn't a naturally aggressive fighter he isn't the best at cutting the ring off, but he does close the distance really quickly to make up for it.

Round 10 sees Chocolate back into his rhythm. For me that's what this fight is, when Chocolate is in his rhythm, he wins the rounds, when Canzoneri disrupts that rhythm he wins them.

I have it dead even going into the final third. But one thing I'll say at this point is everyone gives Floyd so much credit for the way he adjusted in the Zab Judah fight, Canzoneri has made 3/4 huge adjustments already in this fight.

11:10-9
12:10-9
13:10-9
14:10-9
15:10-9

And Canzoneri changes style again, here in the home stretch we see him bouncing about the ring in an aggressive manner, coming in with big shots and then exchanging power shots up close. He seems like a Pacquiao/Barrera hybrid here and Chocolate doesn't really have the legs to stay away, the early body work made sure of that. Chocolate is left trying to smother and re establish his jab, none of which prove effective.

When I watch this I can't help but think if Chocolate committed his jab more he would have won this fight, but I guess it's a testament to Canzoneri that couldn't happen.

My final score is 145-140

And the next time someone justifies Floyd's greatness with "he even adjusted against Judah after 4 rounds" I'm just gonna reply with this fight.

 

Great write up! I had it 144-142 but if I had it any different it would have been wider to Canzoneri so I totally see how you got 145-140.