the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Just watched the very limited footage of Locche and Cervantes in the first meeting.

Cervantes only lost twice in a decade and this was one of those losses.

The available footage shows Locche completely schooling Cervantes really who can't land any significant punches. Locche makes him miss and lands stinging hooks in retaliation.

Going to watch the rematch next.

 

Cervantes vs Locche 2

As great as a performance as this is by Antonio, I can't help but think its because of how much slower Locche has become.

Antonio is very patient, clearly has a lot of respect for Locche and at first he sits patiently behind the jab, however the big difference now is that his jab is landing, maybe not the first one, but locche can't slip them all. Which would be fine, after all Cervantes really worked on his jab during his younger years and produced one of ATG quality. The big problem for Locche was the right hand was also beginning to land, and in his prime that just didn't happen, not a straight right anyway.

The effect of this of course is that now Cervantes can actually back Locche up not with movement and footwork, but with accumulation of force, and against the ropes those hooks are now able to get through.

In the third Cervantes splits the eye of Locche and uses it as target practice.

Locche fights very gallantly, but his style can only work at his peak and unfortunately he's no longer there.

Cervantes vs Frazer

Here we see Antonio destroy the next best man in the division as well, he outjabs from range and wins most of the exchanges, eventually dropping him multiple times.

I forgot how great Cervantes was.

And although I may alter my opinion later, for now I pick him to beat up Floyd in a one sided decision.

 

Months and months ago someone here asked for this

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@PhillyPhan69 ?

 

Watched a few highlights of Durans time as a LW.

He really is such a great fighter. I think P4P he's the best infighter we've ever seen due to a combination of his footwork, head movement, punch placement and work rate. The angles he creates up close are amazing.

However, as good an infighter as Duran is, there's always the chance he could come up against someone stronger or harder hitting, but unlike most great in fighters, Duran can also jab on the back foot.

The multi dimensions at his disposal make him my choice my LW H2H number 1.

Usually a jab and smother tactic will nullify even the best infighting, but as he showed against viruet, he can even over come that style.

Great great fighter.

 

Julio Cesar Chavez vs Frankie Randall
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JCC : Randall

1: 9 - 10 (Randall with a sharp start)
2: 9 - 10 (Fierce exchanges. Randall better)
3: 9 - 10 (Chavez lethargic and uninterested)
4: 10 - 9 (Great exchanges, but bad low blows from Chavez)
5: 9 - 10 (Close. Randall keeping to game plan)
6: 10 - 9 (More exchanges. Chavez more effective)
7: 8 - 10 (Point deduction. Randall more active)
8: 10 - 10 (Great round. Even)
9: 9 - 10 (Randall staying away)
10: 10 - 9 (Randall not very active)
11: 7 - 10 (Point deduction. Beautiful 1-2 knockdwon)
12: 10 - 9 (Chavez pushing the pace)

TOTAL: 116 - 110 RANDALL
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Notes:

• Brilliant performance from Randall. Beautiful knockdown. He was tagging Chavez with that surgical right all night.
• Chavez showed an odd demeanour throughout this fight. Maybe Salma Hayek and booger sugar finally got to him.

 

Watched an old MSG classic today. Henry Hank v Johnny Persol. Wasn't nail-biter stuff but it was a good fight. Scored on the NY rounds basis.

Round 1: Even
Round 2: Hank
Round 3: Persol
Round 4: Persol
Round 5: Persol
Round 6: Even
Round 7: Hank
Round 8: Persol
Round 9: Persol
Round 10: Persol

Total: 6-2-2 Persol (actual scores: 5-5 Draw twice and a 6-4 for Hank)

Maybe I was too generous to Persol but I thought much more highly of his jab and boxing ability than I did of Hank's hands-at-his-sides style of one shot at a time. And I liked Persol's willing to mix it when needed. Of course, this was an older Hank who had outgrown middle, which was evident in his attack. He was bigger and bulkier than the guy mixing it with Benton, Mims, Tiger and Giardello. He was faster and sharper at 160. But still, I do enjoy these old fights.

 

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Figured why not watch it all, been due a proper watch (couldn't remember the first time, was too tired). @Saintpat's thread has got me wanting to rewatch it.

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10 : 9
10 : 9*
10 : 9
10 : 9
9 : 10 (49/46)
9 : 10*
9 : 10
10 : 9
9 : 10
10 : 9* (

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)
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Absolutely brilliant fight; not a gritty war of attrition, won on guts and toughness persé, it was more a spectacle of boxing ability, which involved frequent exchanges, won on speed and skills. Rounds 3, 7, 9 and 10 were amazing. Definitely my personal highlights.

Sugar's jab and constant, steady pressure was always an issue for Mando, who's speed, slipperiness and stinging left hand was always an issue for Sugar. It was an awesome clash of styles, and a true cross-roads fight.

 

Are you on a "pressure fighter beats the counter puncher" binge?

I love this fight me, its also worth noting how highly Acosta was thought of at the time.

I must admit, my actual favourite style clash is the exact opposite of this, its when the counter puncher knocks out the pressure fighter like Marquez vs Diaz and Mitchell vs Murray.

 

I've got a huge slog of Alexis Arguello fights to get through next.

Starting with Olivares.

 

Barry McGuigan v Steve Cruz

I actually remember this fight being reported on after the event when I was only 9. I wasn't a boxing fan at that point but it made the news the next day because it was a huge upset.

This was a cracking fight in which McGuigan finally ran out of steam at just the wrong time. Had he managed to stay on his feet in the final minute he probably would have escaped with a majority draw. Or had he not been penalised by Richard Steele in the 12th he would have escaped with his title that way.

But I can't help feeling he set up his own demise by setting such an unforgiving pace from the start. He was using almost twice the energy that Cruz was, who boxed well off the back foot looking for opportunities to counter. And if anything, the pace went up in the championship rounds as McGuigan tried to pressure Cruz even more but to his credit, Cruz hung tough with McGuigan, picking his punches well and scored the first knockdown at just the right time when McGuigan was building momentum at that point.

And then came the dramatic finish in the 15th. I had McGuigan two points up going into that round (the same margin as two of the judges) so it was a remarkable end to an outstanding all-action fight, which cost McGuigan the title and effectively his career in the space of about 90 seconds at the end of 45 minutes of fighting.

1 10-9 (close)
2 9-10
3 10-9
4 10-9
5 10-9
6 9-10
7 9-10
8 10-9 (Cruz started well before McGuigan took over)
9 10-9
10 8-10 (Big round for as he drops McGuigan and rocks him at the bell)
11 9-10
12 9-9 (McGuigan took the round but got a point deduction - a little harsh in my view - so it remained even at the end)
13 10-9 (good stuff from McGuigan. He has a slender lead on my card)
14 10-9 (close round and excellent action. The pace in this fight is remarkable)
15 7-10 (Disastrous final round for McGuigan who wilts under the unforgiving Vegas sun and goes down twice)

McGuigan 140-141 Cruz

I scored it to McGuigan 8 rounds to 6 with 1 even but the knockdown in the 10th, the point deduction in the 12th and the two knockdowns in the final round all conspired to cost McGuigan the fight.

 

Here is how I had it. The only difference in our cards over 15 was the 12th which you gave to McGuigan and I scored even before we deducted for the penalty. That's pretty good over 15.

Round 1: 10-9 McGuigan
Round 2: 10-9 Cruz
Round 3: 10-9 McGuigan
Round 4: 10-9 McGuigan
Round 5: 10-9 McGuigan
Round 6: 10-9 Cruz
Round 7: 10-9 Cruz
Round 8: 10-9 McGuigan
Round 9: 10-9 McGuigan
Round 10: 10-8 Cruz (scores a knockdown)
Round 11: 10-9 Cruz
Round 12: 10-9 Cruz (scored it even but 1 point deducted from McGuigan for low blow)
Round 13: 10-9 McGuigan
Round 14: 10-9 McGuigan
Round 15: 10-7 Cruz (scores 2 knockdowns)

Total: 142-140 Cruz

 

Nice - I could have scored round 12 even too (before the point deduction, I mean) but I thought McGuigan shaded it. It was close though.

McGuigan should never have lost this fight. Had it taken place in the UK, he'd have won this fight. His energy-sapping style and the heat combined to lose him it right at the end. Like I said in my write up, he never recovered from the loss either. His comeback fight after this was nearly two years later.

Good article on the fight here: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/t...s-boxing-history-barry-mcguigan-steve-cruz-15

 

Arguello vs Olivares

Olivares actually has a fair amount of success here, not at range, imo, but up close he gets more shots off than Arguello, Arguello would routinely meet him for an exchange, then create room and fire off a couple of shots.

It's a strange style Alexis uses, a front foot counter puncher without a jab. It's almost like a less athletic version of Canzoneri.

He places himself in range with his forward movement and then times the shots of his opponent. He's more than willing to trade, but also he's deadly accurate so he puts a lot of work into slowing his man down.

Arguello was never supposed to be a great. He was a poor kid who had to drop out of school to make ends meet and was taught how to box by his step brother. As a teen his record is understandably very patchy.

But then from nowhere he destroys Legra and gets a title shot.

Marcel beats Arguello, but Alexis spent a lot of time trying to force the action, I wonder if a more cerebral Alexis would have been able to to time him and keep to his own strategy. Alexis has never been an all out pressure boxer, and if he fights like one he'd lose to almost any world class out fighter imo. However if he sticks to his mastery and relied instead on timing, uses his jab a bit more, suddenly he's a lot harder to beat imo.

Against Olivares its clear those accurate power shots begin taking a toll and the ending is quite dramatic. I'm not saying Olivares was necessarily in control of the fight, but he must have felt good with his strategy at outlanding Alexis up close, he just had to pay too high a price to get there.

I'm gonna be watching a whole lot of Alexis over the next few days, I'm not sold on his feet being too slow to ever work against a stick and move type fighter.