the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

There's a major difference between the average stick and move type fighter, and Ernesto Marcel.

 

Arguello also didn't look good against Vilomar Fernandez and Arturo Leon.

 

Of course, but you also have the Vilomar fight which is often used against him.

I'm not sure how highly I rate Marcel compared to some on here tbh. Nor am I sure on how successful I think Marcel would be against a better Arguello.

But my main focus is in LW and LWW right now which is why Alexis is on my list.

 

People rarely look good against spoilers, the question is does this indicate a stylistic weakness.

 

Arguello vs Kobayashi

This is his peak FW performance imo. He certainly doesn't look slow of foot here and his jab is on fire.

He doesn't jab to set up his attack, he java to score points, which isn't something I like tbh, however it works for him because if he can land the jab successfully, the opponent has to try forcing the fight which will present him with openings.

That's exactly what he does here. He outjabs Kobayashi from range, Royal takes the bait and tries to come inside and whilst he does get there, he has to eat a lot of clean shots to get inside. These take their toll and soon he can't sustain this kind of attack any more.

Sufficiently softened up by round he's ripe for the picking and Arguello picks him off with deadly accuracy. Sickening body shots are enough to end the contest.

Timing, Arguello is one of the best at timing his shots in history and when it's combined with that jab, it makes him very hard to defeat.

 

Arguello vs Escalara 1

What a great back and forth match this is.

You see here how a dedicated offence can get through the defence of Arguello as Escalara landed more than his fair share of jabs and power shots. But like always he pays the price every time.

Alexis has a reputation now in the boxing world, you can try to outbox him, but you'll have a hard time seeing the final bell if you do.

It seems Arguello can't miss with his punches and often he will roll with a punch to time his own counter. What he lacks in hand speed he more than makes up for with timing and reflex.

The cut that wins him the fight is quite bad imo, and Alexis was far enough on the cards that it didn't change the outcome.

Again the addition of a strong jab to his arsenal has been a real game changer.

I'm going to fully score the Fernandez fight next.

 

Guys, I'd love your opinion on this fight. The film is exquisite for a 1969 fight. It is the first fight between Hiroshi Kobayashi and Antonio Amaya. 5 point must in effect.

Round 1: 5-4 Amaya
Round 2: 5-4 Amaya
Round 3: 5-4 Amaya
Round 4: 5-4 Amaya
Round 5: 5-4 Kobayashi
Round 6: 5-4 Amaya
Round 7: 5-4 Kobayashi
Round 8: 5-4 Kobayashi
Round 9: 5-4 Amaya
Round 10: 5-4 Amaya
Round 11: 5-4 Amaya
Round 12: 5-4 Amaya
Round 13: 5-4 Kobayshi
Round 14: 5-4 Kobayshi
Round 15: 5-4 Amaya

Total: 70-65 Amaya (actual scores: 72-71 and 72-69 both for Kobayashi and a score of 74-72 for Amaya)

Hard to believe for me that Kobayshi retained his title on a 15 round split decision, which I felt was deplorable. Amaya, who fights like Laguna or Luis Rodriguez, really controlled the fight whereas Kobayshi only fought in spurts. And to tell you the truth, I think I gave Hiroshi the 5th and 7th out of pity. I really think they were more even rounds. But Kobayshi benefitted from 3 Japanese judges rather than neutral judges (the one judge who voted for Amaya scored it 3-1-11 in rounds. How's that for fence-sitting?). IMO, Amaya was robbed blind.

 

Jiro Watanabe vs Celso Chavez

Wat : Chavez

1: 10 - 10 (Not much happening. Feel out)
2: 10 - 9 (Very interesting match up. Vicious short punches)
3: 10 - 10 (Vicious exchanges. Very close)
4: 9 - 10 (Chavez just nicked it. Close)
5: 9 - 10 (Jiro struggling to get off here)
6: 9 - 10 (Nasty round. Chavez took it near end)
7: 10 - 9 (Jiro on left hands)
8: 10 - 9 (Jiro just taking it. Chavez hurt)
9: 10 - 9 (Jiro taking over now)
10: 10 - 10 (Jiro evening it with late attack)
11: 9 - 10 (Nasty exchanges)
12: 10 - 9 (Jiro again just taking it)
13: 9 - 10 (An exchange to finish, Jiro superior, but Chavez was more consistent)
14: 10 - 8 (An absolutely beautiful right hook to put Chavez down)
15: TKO (They're going for it!)

TOTAL = 135 - 133 WATANABE

Notes:

• Awesome fight, very tense, skilled and nasty. Lots of set up at the begining to eventually lead into razor close exchanges. Jiro obviously had lots of trouble with the long, fluid Panamanian, but he adjusted to the range, and grinded it out with short shots in the end for a savage TKO late.
• This would be very good to test scoring, as there are some razor thin rounds throughout.

 

Alexis Arguello vs Vilomar Sanchez

Sanchez fought a great fight here, and he does expose a troubling side to Arguello. I'm not even talking about the way he won some rounds so easily, I'm talking about the frustration shown by Arguello. The way Arguello begs him to fight. That really is troubling.

I think the rounds Vilomar won, he won by a country mile, he danced around the ring but more importantly he beat Arguello to the punch time and time again.

The rounds Arguello won, he barely nicked. He just couldn't catch Fernandez. They say timing beats speed, but here Fernandez showed how that's not always the case.

I always thought he looked a bit green against Marcel the way he chased him around the ring, but he shows again, in his prime years later against a lesser regarded opponent, he would probably always do the same thing.

So I do take back what I said previously, clearly Alexis has a stylistic weakness against very quick out fighters. More specifically against dedicated out fighters with a solid chin. Dedicated out fighters with a solid chin who are quick enough to get in and out.

Granted there aren't many capable of doing that over a championship distance, actually I don't think Fernandez would have won over a championship distance neither, but there are a few out there I'd pick to do the job.

Here's my scorecard, you won't like it, I'm going to just say the rounds I have for Alexis are where Sanchez was overly negative and, or, Alexis was able to catch up to him and out score him.

Arguello:1,6,8,9,10

Sanchez:2,3,4,5,7

I had it a draw and I do think over 12 or 15 Arguello would have beaten him. I'm not going to complain about the decision because I think rounds 1, 8 and 9 were all swing rounds so I can easily see it the other way.

 

Arguello vs Leon

1:10-9
2:10-9
3:9-10
4:9-10
5:9-10
6:10-8
7:9-10
8:9-10
9:10-9
10:10-9
11:10-9
12:10-9
13:10-9
14:10-9
15:10-9

145-139

This fight shows both a good and bad side about Arguello imo.

It shows that those who come to spoil and not engage with him, will always present him problems, actually I have Leon winning 5 of the first 8. Leon is better than his record gives him credit for, he's a bit like the Jimmy Young of the lighter weights but you'd expect someone of Arguello's quality to be able to steam roll him.

However the way Leon combines the head movement with the clinching inside, he gave Alexis all sorts of problems.

But Alexis showed his power catching him with the shot in the 6th and turning up the pressure down the championship stretch.

I think almost any defensive fighter in history would win rounds of Arguello, and over 6/8 rounds might well take the W. But doing over the full distance is another matter, and even though he doesn't look unbeatable, he emerges a clear victor imo.

I'm glad I've got these two **** fights out of the way, because from here on in his career is an action highlight.

 

Arguello vs Limon

And so the legendary SFW run continues.

This is where Arguello is the perfect form of unbeatable.

You cannot out slug Arguello at this weight. Beat him on the inside, maybe. Beat him on the outside, if you're good enough. But beat him at mid range punch for punch, not a chance.

Arguello has the chin to take the best shots guys of this weight class can throw. He has the holes in his defence big enough to make these wars exciting as hell to watch. He has the timing and accuracy to inflict real damage as the fight progresses.

In this style of fight, at this weight class, Arguello is guaranteed to do two things

1) produce a FOTY candidate

2) win

Limon is another great example of a Mexican teenage brawler who became a world class fighter as he became an adult.

But he was way out of his depth here.

 

Arguello vs Chacon

I feel bad for Bobby Chacon in this fight, the same way I feel bad for Frazier in the rematch with Foreman.

He knows how to win, he has the tools to win. He just can't help himself and his bravery costs him.

In the first 2 rounds Chacon does an excellent impression of Vilomar Fernandez, he darts in and out, he beats Arguello to the punch, he lands a lot of hard powerful shots.

But here's the heart breaking thing, the better he does the more confident he gets. The longer he stays up close to Arguello, the more punches he throws, the more punches he lands. And whilst he's out scoring Arguello in these exchanges, he's also allowing Arguello to fire back at him and as we know, that's a recipe for disaster.

As the rounds go on Arguello begins having more success every time Chacon has more success and then it becomes apparent that Arguello is hurting Chacon a whole lot more than Chacon is hurting him.

Round 6 and 7 are quite brutal as Chacon no longer had the legs to stay away from Arguello and has to ship the full arsenal firing at him and ultimately his corner don't let him out for round 8.

It just shows, a jab and movement approach isn't enough, you have to have the discipline to actually see the game plan through.

 

Arguello vs Castillo, this is the H2H best we ever see of Arguello imo. And it allows us to draw a measure of his level.

Castillo fights a perfect fight for many of these rounds. When he's tagged, he regroups and goes back to range, he never let's his discipline drop.

Arguello doesn't lose his cool as he did against Fernandez.

In fact I actually think the following around the ring is a strength of his, he is content timing Castillo from range, he knows he can't put box him. But by constantly following him around the ring and throwing that very long jab, he makes Castillo keep working. Every time he can, he lands a big right or a hook to body and whilst Castillo avoids a lot of shots early in, he can't avoid everything and the punches Arguello lands, combined with the constant movement he forces his opponent into, work together to tire Castillo down.

Eventually Arguello follows him into the corner and once he has no way out he unloads big big bombs against Castillo who no longer had the energy to skip away. The ending is all too inevitable.

This version of Arguello is going to be very very difficult to beat.

You have to be an out fighter somewhere between the quality of Ruben Castillo and Marcel to take home the W. You need to have a full tank, an iron chin, quick feet, quick hands and supreme ring IQ.

That doesn't leave a lot of people. Certainly not at 130 and below.

I love this performance, he reminds me a lot of Joe Louis. It's got the aura of "win as many rounds as you want, I'll catch you at some point"

I love it.

 

Arguello vs Edwards and Navarette

Combined these two together as they both follow a similar pattern.

They don't try to outbox Arguello, they try to out punch him. And they get murdered.

Pretty much all she wrote.

 

I again watched one of my very favorite fights the other day, but it was a little different this time. Unfortunately I still had to hear Larry Merchant throwing as much petty shade as he could against what I feel was a beginning to be past his best Erik Morales, as he racked up a close, but convincing, points victory against Manny Paquiao. We all know how the story ended up going forward, but i think Erik was phenomenal this night and Pac too. Merchant was his standard crusty a$$ self. What possessed me to watch a fight I have almost memorized, and to watch the version with my least favorite commentary of the various broadcasts available? That would be that after more than a yr of waiting and hoping and looking about, someone finally seeded the whole fight in 720 60FPS for me. Unfortunately, my ISP is still garbage and I cannot up the fight at the moment as the 2.91 GB file would take close to 20 hrs to upload through Garbage CentryLink, and when I upload it makes doing anything else online for all others in the house go to standstill type movement. So at best I posted a short three minute preview the other day, the whole 12th round. Enjoy if you should choose to do so. I hope to get the fight up for anyone who would like to see it sooner than later....

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