the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Lupe Pintor v Johnny Owen

Never watched this before and didn't plan to but it coincided with my review of Mexican bantamweight champs from the late 60s to the late 70s. I'm not going to write anything on the aftermath and just focus on the fight itself.

Owen started well but I felt he crowded his own work. He had a good jab and had the skills to do well at distance but infighting gave Pintor opportunities to counter and he was countering well. Up to round 8, this was very competitive - In fact, I had Owen up by a point - but round 9 was the turning point. Pintor started taking control from that point on and the first knockdown signified that Owen didn't have much left. The first knockdown in the 12th could have been the end of Owen's challenge but he had fought so fiercely that it didn't seem unreasonable to give him another chance. Of course, we know what happened next.

I don't think I'll be watching this one again - once was more than enough.

1 9-10 (close. Good opener, but Owen just shaded it)
2 10-9 (Owen is maintaining a furious pace but the more precise and solid blows are coming from Pintor)
3 10-9 (Owen is throwing a lot more but the better quality is consistently coming from Pintor)
4 10-9 (the pattern continues. Vicious uppercut at the end of the round by Pintor)
5 9-10 (better round from Owen. Pintor missing more and Owen landing some more telling blows than in the previous three rounds)
6 10-10 (Wow - such an unforgiving pace in this fight)
7 9-10 (smarter boxing from Owen this round. He backs off and uses his reach and jab to control the round)
8 9-10 (close)
9 10-8 (a hard right from Pintor puts Owen down and changes the complexion of the fight)
10 10-9 (Some excellent exchanges but Pintor is coming out on top and landing the more significant punches.)
11 10-9
(106-103)
12 Pintor KO Owen

 

How can you call a fight you scored 7-5 a schooling?

 

Read the description.

 

My Pacquiao binge continues today.

Morales 2

This imo is a great fight, the only thing I really don't like is the emphasis on gloves by the commentary team. It's ludicrous and made me cringe.

That being said, Morales continued to put box Pacquiao, he again found a home for the straight right and again did better in the jabbing exchanges, but the difference now is the gap between the two was much less. Morales was getting the better but not by a lot. Pacquiao was setting his attacks up better and timing his left a heck of a lot better. Some say Morales tired because he was tight at the weight, others because he was shipping to many left hands, but either way Pacquiao did wear him down and score a dominant victory. Imo, if the weight was such an issue, he wouldn't have agreed another fight at SFW, I think Pacquaio just fought a better fight, timed his shots better, was more patient and ultimately his power saw him through.

Larios, well Pac dominated this one, shipped a few hard punches but was well in control throughout imo, just far too fast and powerful for the SBW former champ.

The third fight with Morales was sad to see. He hurt Erik with pretty much every punch he threw,the early finish was inevitable.

Against Solis Pacquiao looks a lot like the pre Morales version, less refined, much more aggressive and just an all round force of nature. Very good display.

The rematch was with MAB was a huge anti climax. Barrera had come from a very close loss with Marquez, he had reinvented himself as a bit more of a boxer rather than a brawler and he tried to out box Pacquiao, instead, what we saw was MAB refusing to engage, and Pacquiao winning nearly every round. I only gave MAB the 5th.

I actually watched Pac Marwuez 2 really recently. But I'm going to watch it again because I love the fight and want a fresh scorecard.

 

Salvador Sanchez W15 Pat Cowdell

It's been a long time since I've watched a Sanchez fight. This one is often touted as proof that he had difficulty with boxers, and while I suppose that's a fair statement, there's a bit more to this one than Cowdell simply being a mover.

Cowdell is awkward, with a motion-filled stance that sees his hands and upper body constantly moving and pumping even when he isn't punching, and he has a slight lean to the right, making it easier to duck away from counter rights. He holds his hands up well to defend against hooks coming from the portside too, and he has a good jab. Sanchez's real problem here I think is that being a natural counterpuncher, he wants Cowdell to throw so he can do just that. Problem is, Cowdell throws little but that jab and then either leans away or rushes inside to minimize the counter Sanchez wants to throw. He's very smartly not giving Sanchez much to throw at.

Sanchez is the more two-handed fighter here, and does best when flurrying after catching a jab or two. He does this enough to swell up the Englishman's left eye badly, and he seems more the part of a confident ring general, but Cowdell gains in confidence with each round.

It seems like I awarded alternate rounds to them here and wasn't trying to do that. It was just part of the cat and mouse game they were paying. Cowdell was perhaps more accurate with his jab, but his offense was limited to pretty much only that, while Sanchez might not have been as accurate (!) but he did throw more and utilized both hands more effectively.

A knockdown from a nicely-timed right over the top in the last 20 seconds ices it for Sanchez, at least for me. Not his best performance, but a spirited and effective effort from Cowdell.

Sanchez: 2, 4, 6, 9, 11, 12, 15 (10-8)
Cowdell: 3, 5, 7, 8, 10, 14
Even: 1, 13

144-142 Sanchez

 

Rafael Herrera v Ruben Olivares 1

Managed to miss this one when I was looking for it the other week and ended up watching the rematch first instead.

A disciplined performance from Herrera and an underwhelming one from Olivares who lacked fire and seemed content to box in retreat. The cut no doubt bothered him but he seemed there for the taking and Herrera started to sense this around the 6th when he stepped up his attack.

1 10-9
2 10-9
3 10-9
4 9-10 (close)
5 9-10
6 10-9
7 10-9
(68-65)
8 Herrera KO Olivares

 

Juan Manuel Marquez vs Manny Pacquiao

So this is the rematch at SFW. Both men had recently beaten Marco Antonio Barrera and at this point both men were ranked extremely highly P4P and were the top 2 fighters in this division.

1:10-9
2:10-9
3:8-10
4:9-10
5:10-9
6:10-9
7:9-10
8:10-9
9:9-10
10:9-10
11:9-10
12:10-9

113-114 Pacquaio wins by one point.

I actually had it the same way I scored it last time which is 6 rounds a piece the knockdown winning it for Pacquiao.

Same as the first fight I can see there's enough close rounds to warrant the debates, but I do feel they were evenly matched both fights, Pacquaio won by virtue of a knockdown.

Once Pacquiao began timing his shots and become a bit of a counter puncher himself he is very hard to beat. Not impossible because he can be timed himself, but very hard.

Roach really did take an amazing athlete with physical gifts and turn him into a great fighter.

I'm going to continue my Pacquiao binge up until the 2010 fight with Margarito. I feel that signalled the end of his peak.

He became a bit more technical and a bit less of a whirlwind after that as he slowed down and imo, even though he spent the entirety of the next ten years somewhere in the top five WW fighters in the world, and picking up the lineal championship himself, he was noticeably past prime.

 

113-114?

 

Lol my bad

 

Pacquaio vs Diaz, De La Hoya, Hatton and Cotto

I'm going to end my Pacquiao binge here actually, the 4 fights that won him the FOTD award.

These 4 fights are were you see all of Pacquaios abilities showcased brilliantly. The timing, the shot selection, the lead left hand, the right hook, the head movement, the high guard, I watch these 4 and he looks sensational. You almost have to keep reminding yourself that Marquez managed to time him and take 6 rounds off him as a reminder that he isn't unbeatable.

Diaz is completely out matched here. Pacquiao uses him as a punch bag to show off his full repertoire. You can forget the belt, Diaz should have lost to Morales, but he was a worthy top the opponent and Pacquiao anhilated him. At LW and above Pacquiao has such a speed advantage, his power amplified because the combination of speed and angles mea he lands so many shots that people just don't see coming. Diaz didn't see anything coming.

De La Hoya, this victory has been so denigrated over the years, but at the time it was huge. I actually remember I used to be a lurker on these boards back then, mainly posting as a guest in comments on the articles and I said I felt Pacquiao would cut through Hoya like a knife through butter and hardly anyone agreed with me. The thinking was he'd pushed Floyd so close, and at some point he would back Manny up land a combination and fold him. Even watching the fight the commentators are in shock at how its unfolding and they keep saying at some point Oscar will surely land something big. But he never does.

Hatton has restored his reputation with a huge victory over Malignaggi underlining his claim as the best 140 pounder by a mile. The thought process here is Hatton can walk through Pacquiao, and by god does he try, but he just walks into punch after punch until he's flat on his back.

Cotto the performance that sealed Pacquaios place as the fighter of the decade. He uses every tool he has here. His right jab, his lead left, body work, movement, uppercuts inside, high guard to defend the flurries. He looks immense. Cotto tries so hard but ultimately comes up short in a heroic losing effort.

Had the Mayweather fight come off earlier, Floyd still beats him, as good as Pacquiao looked, the same Pacquaio was still outboxed for 6 rounds against Marquez and many argue to this day he was outboxed for more than 6 rounds. Mayweather is bigger, quicker and has better timing that Marquez. He would have have won an 8-4 type decision imo.

That being said I love the way Pacquaio adapted to Morales and Marquez taking his jab away, by taking it away instead and working more on the lead left, that's amazing haha.

Man it's been awesome re watching Pac an at his best.

He's a top 15 fighter in every div8he competed in, imo. Except LMW, that doesn't count.

 

Thompson Price 1 will never ever be beaten haha

 

Is that the 'Did you like it?' 'I loved it' one?

 

Watched various bits of flash elorde today.

I fancy him as similar to Pacquaio was at SBW. With that double southpaw jab followed by the straight left. The way he dances in and out of range throwing hooks.

He has such a strange record, and one that i actually think is really deceptive. From 1955 to 1967 the only people who beat him at FW or SFW were Saddler, Numata, Kaneko and Berrios.

Yeah he lost fights at LW but obviously he has a limit and that was his.

But out of those who beat him at his best, all have an asterix attached to them. He had beaten Saddler and was beating him until he succumbed to the rough tactics in the rematch. Berrios was a pair of fights that apparently saw him do the better first time round before again succumbing to cuts in the rematch. The Numata and Kaneko fights could easily have gone his way.

So when I say his record is deceptive, what I mean is he has a 12 year period where he was a world class featherweight and super featherweight, arguably beating everyone he fought at that limit.

Plus up at LW, where his record is very far from great, he has a victory over Laguna.

But you know what, if I picture Pacquiao fighting as he did from FW and below, with out the ability to physically overwhelm his opponent, I imagine a lot of his fights are a lot closer as well.

But yeah, for my money, Elorde is a fantastic fighter, and is an example of one of those fighters who had a perfect weight class. And that class was 130 pounds.

He will give anyone a good fight, just a shame he didn't have the power his style could have really used.