the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mantequilla, Nov 20, 2009.


  1. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Pimp C's Full-Time Tutor Full Member

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    Jung Koo Chang vs German Torres II

    If I'm not mistaken this is the slugfest of the trilogy? I hope so...

    Chang-Torres II
    10 : 9
    10 : 9
    10 : 9
    9 : 10 (39/37)
    10 : 9
    9 : 10
    10 : 9
    9 : 10 (77/75)
    10 : 9
    10 : 9
    9 : 10
    10 : 9 (116/112)

    Great fight! This was a slugfest, albeit not quite as a electrifying as I expected. Oh well, I guess that's my fault for assuming all Chang fights look like the Tokashiki one. Scoring wasn't that hard, but probably not something you'd call straight forward. There were some highly debatable rounds here, particularly: 4, 5, 7 and 11. I didn't see this one as overly controversial.

    I think the key difference between these two was that Chang had mug better control of range. Even in the shape he came in for this one, he could still completely dictate the range the fight was fought at, and so could dictate everything else via proxy.

    Lots of respect between these two, as well. That's always great to see.
     
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  2. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Every so often I like digging out an old Gilette fight from their archives. Today I watched the Joey Giambra 10 rounder against Yama Bahama. The fight started out immediately with a clinch and I didn't think this boded well. The first 5 rounds were rife with clinches but they did eventually get into some good exchanges. Rounds 8, 9 & 10 were the best for action. However, Giambra just couldn't get past that speedy jab of Yama's. Even when he fell into a clinch with Joey, he at least jabbed his way into the clinch. Joey's jab was harder but slower and there were times when Yama would rip loose with sharp combos. Late in the fight Joey turned it on but Yama's speedy jabs and combos took it. No need to run a card here. Official scores were 6-3-1 (twice) and 5-4-1 all for Bahama. I was not so gracious to Joey. I scored the 4th even and only gave Joey the 10th for an 8-1-1 for Bahama. I feel the officials were very generous to Joey, but at least the deserving fighter got it.
     
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  3. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Pimp C's Full-Time Tutor Full Member

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    Manny Pacquiao vs Lehlo Ledwaba

    I was binge watching Morales and Pacquiao last week, but I put it on hold the last few days. Back on it, and I really wanted to share my thoughts on this one, and see what @McGrain, and others think of it.

    Pac-Lehlo
    10 : 9
    10 : 8
    10 : 9
    10 : 9
    10 : 9 (50/44)
    Pacquiao TKO6

    Pacquiao was almost completely unknown to the commentary team. They didn't even know how to pronounce 'Pacquiao', and admitted after the stoppage they'd barely heard of him. And Pacquiao room the fight on two weeks notice, and had only been in the country for 10 days.

    I think this is an amazing win in context. Although I don't know too much about Ledwaba, which is kinda what I wanted McGrain's opinion on. How do you rate this win?

    Pre-Barrera Pacquiao was in a few really good fights.
     
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    So funny to think of now, it seems almost impossible.
     
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  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Carl Frampton SD12 Scott Quigg

    "Battle of Britain" and all that ****. You forget now that Quigg was quite handy, and at one time ranked the number two contender in the world at 122lbs. Carl Frampton is about a year removed from his performance against Avalos so he's prime; Quigg's prime is now, for sure, he looked impressive bulleting Kiko Martinez out of there in two. He's off to a VERY slow start though, in a shell, circling slowly to his left, nothing really happens - i suppose give it to Carl on the grounds that he was marginally more aggressive with his jab. Even round under a civilised scoring system. Frampton actually lands a couple of jabs in the second; Quigg has one go at it but again, nothing happens. Thrid is a replay, although Quigg looks more willing to try and actually lands a left hook.

    Now here's a living nightmare in the ring: Frampton breaks Quigg's jaw in the fourth. Quigg starts slow, maybe to save energy until late in the fight when he knows Frampton will be in nick still, maybe going for the late KO, i have no idea, but instead of ceding the early rounds and going into the back of the fight with more remaining he's going in with a debilitating injury. Presumably, it was one of the several right hands he landed in the fourth that did it. So Quigg is a brave boy but one bang in trouble. Fifth is close until the final thirty seconds when Frampton takes it away with some body shots and a nice jab. So far this fight is an advertisement for okay footwork, and that's it.

    Frampton is clearly bemused. Quigg moves in, gloves high and just doesn't throw. Frampton, correctly percieving the countering strategy just fights a minimum risk fight. Quigg tries to push in the seventh a little bit, at least he's not fighting like a statue on skates any more...might even nick a close one. The problem is he's so far behind he needs fireworks to win now. Bodyshots and a clear left hand bring him the eighth too. It's a rally! Quigg starts to look exactly what he is in the ninth - bigger and stronger. Frampton looks rattled. I hope I manage to score this a draw :lol: If Quigg had tried even slightly to win the first round this would now be just 5-4.

    Frampton stands hi ground in the tenth and after many dull rounds the fight is on. Quigg remains box by virtue of the fact that he is coming forwards. Frampton just that little bit quicker...it's making the tenth very close indeed. Having given it and the eleventh to Quigg - based upon hard body punching followed by a hard right hand, I have Quigg winning five consecutive rounds and in need of the tenth for the twelfth for the draw :lol:

    Frampton finally finds his hands to wine the twelfth - i'm gutted. This fight was OK from around the eighth round but before that, poor. The slow start must have kept Quigg awake at night.

    Frampton:1,2,3,4,5,6,12.
    Quigg:7,8,9,10,11.

    115-113 Frampton.
    Official: 116-112 Frampton, 115-113 Quigg.
     
  6. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Checked out another Oba Carr fight today. His title challenge against Oscar DeLaHoya, which I didn't score when I first saw it. Here we go.

    Round 1: 10-8 Oscar (scores a knockdown)
    Round 2: 10-9 Carr
    Round 3: 10-9 Carr
    Round 4: 10-10 Even
    Round 5: 10-9 Oscar
    Round 6: 10-9 Carr
    Round 7: 10-7 Oscar (1 point deducted harshly for an unintentional headbutt and 1 point deducted for a low blow - again, a bit harsh)
    Round 8: 10-9 Oscar
    Round 9: 10-9 Carr
    Round 10: 10-9 Oscar
    Round 11: Oscar drops Carr and it is stopped before it could resume

    Total (through 10 completed rounds): 96-92 Oscar (actual scores: 96-91, 95-92 and 97-90 all for Oscar)

    Damn good fight. Carr was one of those hard-luck fighters that had all the tools but kept coming against ring stars that prevented him from gaining the crown. I always thought Hector Thompson was the ultimate hard-luck, having to meet Duran and Cervantes in his title bids. But Carr went up against Trinidad, Quartey and DeLaHoya in his bids. Not a soft one in the bunch.
     
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  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Nonito Donaire SD12 Wilfredo Vazquez Jnr.

    Big fight this, Donaire steps up to 122lbs, first fight. He's busy in the first round, Wildredo go those high hands and he doesn't fluster - got to be careful though, he's a little static and Donaire scores with an uppercut up the middle. And he is badly out-sped in the second, hurt to the body too. This is pretty one-sided. Donaire has eschewed the jab, with good reason - he's landing his power punches almost at will. He's not flooding Vazquez but he's recognised he has the accuracy and speed to deliver very hard punches when he pleases if he's not greedy. All of that said, Wilfredo has a good fourth and fith, he establishes his jab and lands more than a few; Donaire still edges these rounds with the heavier punches by my eye. Wilfredo launches a serious attack in the sixth, not flashy or violent but he's throwing a lot more and landing a lot more, he's getting closer with the jab, too. Donaire switches southpaw. You forget, sometimes, how bad an idea this is because it's so thrilling when it comes off. Wilfredo wins the sixth big.

    Donaire actually has a minor problem then: what to do about his enemies jab? He seems to want to parry it, right hand high, left hand low - Wilfredo just comes a little wider and flicks it. But some of these jabs are firm. And there's something else. Donaire looks a tiny bit planless. It's Wilfredo who looks determined and sure. It's arguable, but I see the seventh for Wilfredo Donaire still. He's being bossed strategically right now but he lands a very hard punch on the bell. Thought it sneaked it for him. These rounds are now close and interesting though.

    Donaire puts it to bed in the ninth with a gorgeous left hand uppercut followed by an equally attractive left hook. Wilfredo, never before been dropped, just sort of sat down and definitely seemed okay, it was a weird knockdown off two beautiful punches - I can't see Wilfredo catching his man now, needs multiple KDs on my card.

    Donaire:1,2,3,4,5,7,8,9*,10 ,11,12
    Wilfredo:6,

    *Wilfredo down.

    119-108 Donaire.

    Official: 117-110x2, 112-115. That 112-115 card is a mystery in so many ways. I actually think that Judge Ruben Garcia may have mixed the two fighters up.
     
  8. Jel

    Jel Reserving the right to be inconsistent Full Member

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    Marvin Hagler v Vito Antuofermo 1

    Good, competitive fight that started off looking like a procession for the champion elect but ended up turning into a bit of a nightmare. Hagler dominated the first half of the fight before Antuofermo came on strong over the second half. Nonetheless, I felt Hagler had built up enough of a cushion to drop a few rounds without it mattering too much.

    The 10th and 12th were close and could conceivably have gone to Vito which would have made it close on my card had I gone that way but 144-142 Antuofermo I just can't see. An unsatisfactory result but not an entirely satisfactory performance from Hagler either.

    He'd have to take it out of the judges' hands in his next crack at the title.

    1 10-9
    2 10-9
    3 10-9
    4 10-9
    5 9-10 (Vito bullies his way to his first round, landing some decent shots)
    6 10-9
    7 10-9
    8 9-10 (Antuofermo landed the better shots)
    9 9-10 (close, Antuofermo just shaded it)
    10 10-10 (tough round to score, neither fighter gaining a clear advantage)
    11 10-9 (best two way action of the fight - Antuofermo started strongly and then Hagler came on to take it)
    12 10-9 (close. Almost the reverse or the previous round with Hagler starting well before Vito comes back. Hagler edged it overall.)
    13 9-10 (Vito lands his best punch of the fight that backs Hagler up. Good round for him.)
    14 9-10 (another round to Vito)
    15 10-9 (excellent final round action. Hagler takes a well-contested round and the overall contest)

    Hagler 145-141 Antuofermo

    Hagler wins 9 rounds to 5 with 1 even.
     
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  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Nonito Donaire UD12 Jeffrey Mathebula

    Interesting one this. Mathebula was tall, with a decent reach, Donaire isn't experienced at this weight. This a tough fight.

    It was also dedicated to the memory of Jimmy Bivins.

    Donaire opens aggressively, closing the distance limberly with a feinted jab most of the time while looking to land a right hand or leaping left hook. Mathebula trying to give ground and use his jab - it doesn't look great and once or twice he looks legit disorganised. In fact his punches look a little amatuerish, vague and swooping, Donaire on the other hand looks compact and deadly. Would never have predicted a distance fight based upon that first round! Mathebula has slow hands. He's actually landing a few but Donaire is landing all the harder punches.

    I thought Mathebula won the third though; he seemed defensively more organised, less flustered. Hands are shielding and he's using his bambi footwork to get out of the way. One or two good counters too. His punches are still fare less the memorable though and he's going to have trouble with this volume strategy, Donaire just looks so much better. In the fourth, Donaire deepens his problems by opening up the body, left hand low, stepping in suddenly with a hook to the gut or liver. The left hook he lands on bell though, is a gorgeous punch. Mathebula takes a looooong seat and would have been stopped, probably, if Donaire had got another go at him.

    Mathebula lands many "leave me alone", fending type punches in the fifth, Donaire lands hard punches to the gut and head. It's a proper round for explaining to someone why Compubox just doesn't matter. A marginal Donaire round, on volume, Mathebula won by miles. Still, a very good right hand brings him the sixth to keep him in sight, if not exactly competitive.

    And that's pretty much the pattern in a decent fight. Mathebula lands more punches but many feel almost meaningless. Doanire causes harm.

    Noteworthy how desperate Donaire is to score the KO in this fight and against Vazquez. He really wants his power to be real at the weight. Mathebula clearly wins the tenth, out-boxing his man by distance. Donaire starts looking for the jab in the 11th and wins the 11th and 12th clean. Breaks one of Mathebula's teeth, too, with a right hand.

    DONAIRE:1,2,4*,5,7,9,11,12.
    MATHEBULA:3,6,8,10.

    *Mathebula down.

    116-111 Donaire.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2020
  10. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Okay, finally got around to it. Here's my card.

    Paz-Haugen

    1. H
    2. H
    3. P
    4. H
    5. P
    6. H
    7. H
    8. P
    9. H
    10. P
    11. P
    12. H
    13. H
    14. H
    15. P

    9-6 Haugen, or 144-141 in his favor.

    I just don't buy into what Paz brings to the table. He's a lot of flash and exaggerated movement punctuated by the odd wild, mostly inaccurate flurry and a series of fast jabs thrown in only the most general direction of his opponent when he can't think of anything else to do. He's a bull$%&@ artist.
    Haugen, meanwhile, is more economical. He doesn't have a lot of power and doesn't put much on his punches and he doesn't have a lot of physicality about him. This can hurt him in the eyes of some, as his actions don't draw the eye as much, but he is far more accurate with his shots and outboxes Pazienza at nearly every turn. I just felt that Pazienza was banking on the idea that in his hometown he was going to get away with flailing away and landing two of every ten wild haymakers. That would perhaps get more attention than Haugen's steadier, more efficient if less dramatic style.

    Turns out he was right.
     
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  11. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Having said all this, it should also be noted I have long despised Pazienza and respect George's opinion highly, so take of my post what you will.
     
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  12. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Just watched two hard-luck fighters. Fres Oquendo v Maurice Harris. Oquendo had many high profile fight decisions go against him that I have to check a few out. Whereas Harris, who reminds me of a heavyweight Dwight Davison with his physical dimensions and that laid back style, would score big upsets and find a way to lose when you thought he had it together. Here we go.

    Round 1: 10-9 Oquendo
    Round 2: 10-9 Harris
    Round 3: 10-9 Oquendo
    Round 4: 10-8 Oquendo (scores a knockdown)
    Round 5: 10-9 Harris
    Round 6: 10-10 Even
    Round 7: 10-9 Harris
    Round 8: 10-10 Even
    Round 9: 10-9 Harris
    Round 10: Oquendo stops Harris

    Total (through 9 completed rounds): 86-86 Even. (actual scores: all 3 judges had it 86-84 for Harris)

    Not much to this fight that I would recommend other than an exercise in sharpening your scoring skills.
     
  13. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Moore vs Johnson 5

    Johnson has such a beautiful jab off the back foot, Moore tries to slip under it and fire the hooks.

    Moore looks good countering on the front foot, but Johnson seems to be a step ahead of him and manages to drop Moore.

    As Johnson tires a bit Moore is able to establish his own jab and of you can successfully jab with a jabber you cause them all manner of problems.

    Johnson finds himself off balance which is not where you want to be when Moore is firing over the top right hands at you.

    The finish is sudden and brutal. Moore hurts him, chases and unloads on him, the ref somehow let's Johnson carry on and Moore continues to unload forcing the stoppage.

    This is actually a great show case of Moore's talent because with his style you would imagine a solid jab would cause him a lot of issues, and I imagine that's why he struggled so much as a MW member of the Row.

    But this older Moore, much more patient, a better ring general, and superb timing, he's able to slip and counter early on, outjab late on, and bang him out at the finish.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2020 at 4:40 AM
  14. Jel

    Jel Reserving the right to be inconsistent Full Member

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    Sugar Ray Leonard v Wilfred Benitez

    Two of the brightest lights in the fight game at the time - young, undefeated supernaturally talented boxers putting it on the line. Title winning efforts don't get much more impressive than this.

    The main differences between the two were Leonard's greater punch variety and his power. Benitez matched Leonard in speed and defense but couldn't make any impact on Leonard whereas Leonard had Wilfred in trouble on a number of occasions. Remarkable to think that Benitez didn't train for this fight.

    1 10-9 (Good start by Ray)
    2 10-9 (closer but Ray took it)
    3 10-8 (flash knockdown from a jab)
    4 10-9 (close. Ray landed the best punches of the round early on before Benitez started making him miss a bit and countering well with the jab)
    5 10-10 (very tight round)
    6 9-10 (Clash of heads leaves a nasty gash on Benitez's forehead. Benitez is starting to time Ray better. They didn't call him El Radar for nothing)
    7 9-10 (Close. Benitez showed remarkable reflexes again, blocking and slipping Leonard's attacks. A little limited on the offensive side though.
    8 10-9
    9 10-9 (Best action of the fight - quick fire exchanges but Leonard gets the better of them)
    10 9-10 (close. Benitez just edged it)
    11 10-9 (Leonard has Benitez in trouble, Benitez fights back hard)
    12 9-10 (close - either way kind of a round)
    13 10-9
    14 10-9
    (136-130)
    15 Leonard TKO Benitez (another knockdown and Leonard finishes Benitez off with Carlos Padilla intervening)

    I had Leonard up 9 rounds to 4 with 1 even before the conclusive 15th round.
     
  15. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Woldemar from another site put me onto this. I had seen it before on a highlight reel, but watching it in it's entirety gives a whole view.

    John Wesley Meekins v Mohammed Kawoya

    The 1st round belongs to Meekins 10-9 as he controls the fight with a strong jab. The 2nd round I scored a 10-8 as Meekins drops Kawoya. My scoring is rather conservative because Meekins also hurts Kawoya twice more before the end of the round. Conceivably, I can see one scoring this a 10-7 as well. The 3rd round was crazy. Kawoya drops a complacent Meekins, then Meekins drops Kawoya. After arising, Kawoya and Meekins are going at it with Kawoya's back to the ropes and referee Paul Venti jumps in - prematurely IMO - to stop the fight. The thing is, he jumps in while they are exchanging and Kawoya's last right hand drops Meekins hard. Venti doesn't see the punch nor Meekins down because he jumped between them facing Kawoya. When he does notice Meekins crawling to the ropes he stubbornly will not give ground and states "I already stopped the fight!" He was probably right on that point but I thought Kawoya was still making a fight of it and was surprised to see him jump between them. A crazy ending to a fight that shouldn't have ended when it did and God only knows if Meekins could have beaten the count or survived Kawoya's followup, because there was a lot of time left in that round. Absolutely crazy round and well worth watching as a real ring oddity.
     
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