the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mantequilla, Nov 20, 2009.


  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Can't agree with that.

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    Guts improved but he hardly wins a minute here. Laguna taxes him bigtime, it's absolutely routine.
     
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Anselmo Moreno SD 12 Nehomar Cermeno I

    Moreno opens aggressively, Cermeno circles away from the straight for the first half of the round before settling down; no feeling out period, they're straight into it, but lots of missing to one-another's backfoot. Moreno lands the more impressive stuff in the round but looked to me like he was starting to overthink it by rounds end. Cermeno circles in a much tighter circumference beginning two and it suits him; in individual exchanges, it just looks like lateral movement, little darts. Brings him a nice straight right hand, best punch of the round, but Moreno is just sort of out-flicking him. Probably missing less. Still, I think Cermeno's bodywork in addition to that punch bring him the round. He's the livelier of the two and although his economy may be a bit shot, his footwork feels superior early. Good fight despite the missing, they're both busy.

    Neither man can establish his jab, which is a good thing, it makes for frequent, scrappy exchanges which i'm enjoying very much. Moreno, maybe, has a bit more luck with his jab, especially to the body. We've had southpaw-orthodox headclashes and a couple of low blows, too. Spicey. Cermeno times getting inside Moreno's shots very well, but he still often gets out-squabbled there. I thought Moreno won a very close third round on those squabbles.

    It's hard to know what to say about Cermeno, who i've never seen before. He's not a great technician, there' son great pressure, he doesn't seem monstrously strong, he's not a banger. I guess if i had to sum it up i'd say he's a good mover with good positional timing, knows how to position himself well in chaos. That's making things very close, but he needs to be a bit careful on the cards here for me, he's losing close ones on the aggression and this is going to be a fight with many close rounds. Still, Moreno looks a little discouraged to me in round five, he wants to perch and wait, got those restless hands like he wants more punching opportunities. Yeah, he gets out-slugged in the fifth by a guy who looks full of energy. Good work to the body. Cermeno not fussy - just looks to score to the body. Any landing punch. Moreno times those lunges a little in the sixth though to re-take command but Cermeno lands a good shot to the balls in compensation and I think just about wrestles this round away on bodyshots down the stretch. He's fighting pretty dirty though and has been warned by he referee.

    Who will lead the way into the second half of the fight with things tied at 3-3? I like these key feeling rounds and when a fighter picks up on it and fights with new urgency. Cermeno looks like that man here, outlanding Moreno to the body, it's a good round to watch for the body attack and the Moreno response. Cermeno takes the lead for the first time in a significant round. Interesting the way he guards his own body. He knows, I think, that these body shots are his key to victory.

    Moreno has been unhappy with the grip on his boots for a number of rounds but looks flat out uncomfortable in the eighth. Cermeno takes advantage, savages him to the body, generally outhits him. It's his to lose now, Moreno hasn't won a round on my card since the fourth. Interesting though - in the final few seconds of the round, Cermeno has a slip ring centre himself and his momentum evaporates. Japanese commentary has it all even, I have it 5-3, what's weird about a 5-3 is that it sounds close, but Moreno actually needs 9 through 12 to win 7-5 now on my card It's the biggest weakness of the 12 round system. Ring centre wiped down between rounds.

    Moreno boxes with the required urgency in the ninth but continues to slip on the canvas and is favouring limiting small steps now. His inability to grip the canvas is among the most important aspects of the fight now, and has been for some time. He's struglging to counter Cermeno of his slip, too, that superior positioning again - still, he probably works his way to the ninth. Cermeno lands yet another low blow in the tenth and Moreno is discomforted. Referee talks to Cermeno yet again - imo, Cermeno should have had a point taken from him here. Moreno is actually boxing to protect his lower abdomen and groin now, retracting his waist as he dips in, he's hurt and disadvantaged. Cermeno's job is to win rounds though and he does that in the tenth; he's beyond losing now for me.

    Slips galore in the eleventh. FOr a fight defined by slips, low blows and missing this has been wildly entertaining. Cermeno finally has a point deducted for low blows in the eleventh. Moreno takes his time resting up. That one really was very low. Moreno can now win the fight on my card. I gave the twelfth to Cermeno though giving him the win by a single point. I'm not happy with that though given all the low blows and slipping Moreno suffered, and i'm glad it came out the way it did.

    Moreno:1,3,4,9,11*
    Cermeno:2,5,6,7,8,10,12.

    *Cermeno has a point deducted for low blows. At last.

    114-113 Cermeno

    Official: 114-113, 115-112, 112-115
     
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  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Anselmo Moreno SD 12 Nehomar Cermeno II

    The rematch! I'm glad there was one. Plenty to clear up although i'm not sure that happens. Let's see.

    Maybe because this is a commentary in stoic Russian rather than wildly excited Japanese the energy seems lower here, but Cermeno is looking for hard single left hooks at bell and Moreno is countering well so it soon picks up. Moreno is definitely moving more freely. He also looks faster-handed which is weird. Scores a couple of decent one-twos early. Cermeno coming on as the round ends.

    Moreno is busier with the southpaw jab this time and although he's not having great success it's opening up channels for his straight; he's shown a nice counter uppercut on the inside too. He's away. In the third, Cermeno lunges across him with punches and Moreno counters beautifully; it already feels like a very different fight, Moreno moving away quickly and fluidly, Moreno forced to chase.

    Referee has clearly seen the first fight :lol: He's not for taking any ****. Round four and he's handed out serious warnings to both fighters, Moreno for pushing with the head in close, Cermeno for hitting on the break. Cermeno has a round he can build on here, he's finally cornered Moreno, who is staging a controlled fighting retreat, and scored with impressive looking bodyshots, his key weapon in the last fight. That was not a round he could have afforded to lose...Moreno reads the change though and stands his ground in an excellent and close fifth round that goes to Moreno for me. Just about landed the more impressive looking punches although Cermeno has opened up him up to the gut again. Messy sixth goes to Cermeno on the pressure. Once again, a big seventh between these two.

    Really, really good trailing uppercut counters from Moreno in the first minute of the seventh. What a great moment to uncork those punches. He's linking it up as the two in a one-two by the end of the round. Great stuff. I can't imagine Moreno can lose from here on my card. He returns to moving in the eighth behind some excellent Cermeno pressure at the very end of the seventh. It allows Cermeno to build some momentum so Moreno returns to holding his ground then boxing back in the ninth; he takes it, and is safe on my card.

    It would be an exaggeration to say that Moreno canters home from here - in fact Cermeno closes the gap a little - but he was always winning this one by my eye. A weird, enjoyable two-piece this.

    Moreno:1,2,3,5,7,9,10,12.
    Cermeno:4,6,8,11.

    116-112 Moreno.

    Official: 115-113, 117-112, 113-115.
     
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  4. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Holmes vs Spinks 1

    First 5 rounds are strange, Holmes looks annoyed he has to go through with this fight (bit like when I play chess and get drawn against a sub 1500 elo, or when I'm rolling and am up against someone with no stripes on their belt) but he doesn't really do anything. First round he pretty much just jabs, and by virtue of Spinks darting about trying to get the timing going, he probably nicks the first. But then rounds 2,3,4 Holmes is out jabbed, out fought on the inside, out landed on the outside and just looks like an angry man who can't pull the trigger against a petulant upstart. Round 5 Holmes does something other than throw a jab and, in the way Holmes mastered, he adjusts his jab, makes a bit more of a thudding tool to back Spinks up. I have it 3-2 for Spinks at this stage. But is someone wants to tell me they have Spinks 5-0 i probably wouldn't complain too much.

    Round 6 and 7 Spinks puts on a bit of a shoe shining masterclass, throwing very quick light punches. He jabs whenever Larry is thinking of jabbing, he gets inside with that weird upright shifty head movement to fire a quick combo before retreating. He dances on the outside an awful lot making Holmes look like a bad imitation of George Foreman. Never remember Larry looking this bad. 5-2 Spinks.

    Round 8 and 9 are very tough rounds. On one hand Spinks is outworking him, but not really putting anything on his shots, Larry isn't doing a lot, but when he lands to the body Spinks looks hurt and shaken. And it happens often enough for me to give these two rounds to Larry. 5-4 to Spinks.

    Will finish the fight later on.
     
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  5. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    Michael Spinks v Johnny Davis

    As a spectator, Spinks is a puzzle to me. His style is arrhythmic - when he chooses to attack or back off and defend seem almost arbitrary to me. It makes him awkward to watch and obviously made him awkward to fight. His opponents can seem to be doing quite well in a round then a well-timed flurry steers things his way. If you'll excuse the anachronism, it's almost Mayweather-esque.

    Spinks has a tendency to start slow and that is the case here, losing the first couple of rounds to Davis' superior activity. He only starts to take control from the end of the 4th round and despite taking five of the first 7 rounds, they are all competitive. The knockdown in the 8th changed that.

    Davis fought well, trying to apply steady pressure throughout the 3 minutes whereas Spinks attacked in short bursts. The problem for Davis was that Spinks' attacks looked - and were - more damaging. Slowly but perceptibly Spinks took over and by the start of the 9th, it was over.

    1 9-10
    2 9-10
    3 10-9 (close)
    4 10-9 (good flurry at the end by Spinks to take it)
    5 10-9
    6 10-9
    7 10-9 (close)
    8 10-8 (Davis down)
    (78-73)
    9 Spinks TKO Davis
     
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  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Anselmo Moreno UD12 Vic Darchinyan

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  7. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    This is a great fight, and I'm gonna do a thread on the winner. I think this one that our scoring crew should watch. It's a good-un, and has some tough calls.

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    10 : 9
    9 : 10
    10 : 9
    10 : 9 (39/37)
    10 : 9
    9 : 10
    10 : 9
    9 : 10 (77/75)
    10 : 9
    10 : 9
    10 : 9
    10 : 9 (
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    Esparragoza was past his best, but showed a big heart, massive gas tank and an awesome chin. He couldn't miss with his 1-2 over the jab. That long looping right from his 5'9 vantage point was still very sharp, stinging and not something I'd like to take as often as Park did. I also love how Esparragoza gets leverage on his uppercuts. It's like he throws mid-range punches on the inside, it's remarkable. Little sightings of that awesome left hook to the body off the 1-2 which he used in his pomp.

    Park was a scrappy little ******* and didn't give an inch. Poor defence, little skills but heart, grit, stamina and toughness took this one. He tried to jab his way in, bless him, but got twatted for trouble. He then just bum-rushed Esparragoza, kept on top of him and didn't stop throwing shots.

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  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yeah, that's a good one. I love Esparragoza.
     
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  9. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Esparragoza has been entertaining in all three fights I've seen from him.
     
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    **REPOST**

    Antonio Esparragoza TKO12 Steve Cruz

    Very impressive of Esparragoza taking the title from Cruz on enemy territory.

    Cruz is buzzing off the crowd, high energy, quick shifts, looking for the right hand behind the jab. Esparragoza trying to establish his own jab. They trade rights in a good opening round. Cruz looked strong early, but I think Esparragoza got him under control with the jab as the round wound down. In the second, Cruz just seemed to outspeed the taller man in the pocket to nick the round. These boys are here to fight though.

    Activity puts Esparragoza in the box seat in the third; he doesn't miss an opportunity to punch, goes to the body well, jabs often without becoming too predictable and is alive to opportunities for the right hand. Scintillating left hook to the body and a lovely one-two.

    That's a sinister twitch Esparragoza has in his right hand, cradling, ****ing it. Warned a couple of times for rough stuff but winning out of sight. Vast,volume attack. :lol: Esparaggoza lands a horrible little late jab, crowd goes nuts. The Venezuelan tries to take the sixth off but Cruz comes barrelling right at him, hurting him with a surging attack and having success with his jab. Esparaggoza has to step up to get his man back under control. Cruz has a good seventh, too, but I think he lost it to a couple of booming one-twos. He comes on like a tonne in the eight though, pinning Esparragoza to the ropes and hitting him to the body. Esparragoza breaks out and takes his own turn at hurling abuse. Cruz's chin is something.

    Cruz just giving ground as before something elemental but he's fighting all the way. Up, down, all around. When Cruz drops his head, it's uppercuts, when he drops his hands, it's head shots, when he raises them, body...Esparragoza has a point taken off i think for rough housing, grappling, but he has strayed south a bit with some shots.

    The doctor has a look at Cruz in the twelfth for swelling on the eyes and just generally being banged up by a tidal wave of punches and within seconds Cruz has him down amidst a fuselage of punches. Cruz makes it up, and wishes he hadn't. Referee steps in as Cruz goes down for a second time.

    Esparragoza:1,3,4,5,7,8,9*,10,11,
    Cruz:2,6,

    *Esparragoza has a point taken off.
     
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  11. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Good post fella, I agree with the write up. I really like that boxer-puncher style, and Esparragoza's isn't too dissimilar to Rosario's, in that he made basic mistakes that meant he was much more entertaining. Esparragoza vs Fenech is one of the best fights to never happen IMO.

    And I'd sell my sister to see Morales vs Young Park.
     
  12. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Just sampled the first two rounds, and it's a war. No wonder there was a trilogy.

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    10 : 8
    10 : 9
    10 : 9
    10 : 9 (40/35)
    9 : 10
    10 : 9
    10 : 9
    10 : 9 (79/72)
    10 : 9
    10 : 9
    9 : 10
    10 : 9 (
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    Park scores a quick KD in the first, then proceeds to land like four rabbit punches whilst Rojas is down in the first. Clearly not one **** was given. :lol:

    It actually looks as if Park has worked on his head-movement a little. He slipped more than one combination on the way in. I'm impressed. He lands a counter? Wow! Rojas tentatively jabbing, just touching Park's forehead. Snaps an uppercut and Park jumps all over him. More dirty fighting from Park. He's hitting behind the head, throwing whilst Rojas' back is turned, low-blows and shots after the bell. It's quite funny how bad it gets. The referee actually looks fed up at points. Rojas retaliates after round six, he waits for the ref to split them, steps around and hits Park twice. No warning given. I don't think these two like eachother. :lol: this is getting ridiculous now, they're just not even stopping for the bell now, I actually can't tell if they can't hear it or just don't care.

    Rojas probably ended up with the better career, but he was clearly beaten here. Competitive and awesome fight, but with a very decisive winner.

    Another awesome fight, albeit one-sided on the scorecards.
     
  13. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    I'm gonna finish my Spinks binge tomorrow.

    Finish the Holmes fights then Cooney and Tyson.

    Then I'm gonna watch some Roy Jones.

    I'm thinking Hopkins, Tate, Malinga, Toney, Thornton, Griffin x2, Hill, Woods, Ruiz Tarver 1&2.

    I've got a whole lot of free time this weekend so I should be able to get that done.

    Then I'm gonna decide if I cba watching Johnson 02-10 but I probably won't do.
     
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  14. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I plan on binging Koreans. :sisi1

    Yul Woo Lee vs Humberto Gonzalez
    Yul Woo Lee vs Leopard Tamakuma
    Kang Il Suh vs Mando Ramos
    Soo Hwan Hong vs Arnold Taylor
    Soo Hwan Hong vs Yuh Kasahara
    Young Kyun Park vs Eloy Rojas III

    Amos-san said these are all good.
     
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  15. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    From Amos-san, I hope this one is good.

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    1 : 0
    1 : 0
    0 : 1
    1 : 0
    1 : 0 (4/1)
    0 : 1
    1 : 0
    1 : 0
    1 : 0
    1 : 9 (
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    I kinda view Mando Ramos as the Fernando Vargas of the '70s. Hugely popular from the get-go, supremely talented and very entertaining. Suh was very game, both were. It was a nice high-workrate fight where the more experienced guy basically taught the young up and comer a lesson or two.

    Not too much special technique or analysis worthy stuff here, just a nice ol' tear up. I did try and use the scoring system of the time, which is something I avoid. But it seemed like a fun exercise.

    @roughdiamond I think you'd like this one if you haven't already seen it.
     
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