the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mantequilla, Nov 20, 2009.


  1. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

    7,739
    12,897
    Oct 20, 2017
    Here's how I had it, boys:
     
    scartissue and George Crowcroft like this.
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    112,019
    46,019
    Mar 21, 2007
    Amnat Ruenroeng SD12 Kazuto Ioka

    The world's number two 112lber against the world's number two 108lber. This isn't true. But Amnat wasn't far off being the world's number two 112lber. It was imminent.

    Ioka does look a little slimmer be interesting to see how that plays out. In the first, not at all. They're relative speed is tested and it appears to be equalish, but Amnat is taking more risks early and these are bearing fruit despite the Ioka earmuffs. Most of interest was an Amnat lead uppercut when Ioka tried to bring some pressure in the final minute. Interesting to see Amnat back up, he's not running or anything, at all, just giving a little ground - Ioka spooked him a little maybe. Ioka has a better second, but I was wrong about Amnat being spooked, he's just as active when allowing Ioka to stalk in, I think though that Ioka probably takes a narrow second with his beltline work, which I found very impressive in combination with the optic of Ioka edging Amnat back. Amnat takes the third hitting hard with either hand then moving off centre or by doubling up the jab or by throwing punches when Ioka gets static and overly reliant on his earmuffs. A right uppercut, once more, is the choice punch of the round, and it is impressive how Amnat turns him behind that shot.

    Ioka has his moments in the fourth though, but I can't understand why he hasn't returned to the beltline. I didn't see a warning, if there was one, but he's taken to prodding with his left or coming square and prodding with his right. I keep waiting for Amnat to eat him up but it hasn't happened yet. He does win the fifth primarily with his jab though, which is new and i'm sure for Ioka, alarming. Everyone spends the golden sixth missing. Guess I'll give it to Ioka on the pressure. He's had both the sixth and the fourth now which could have gone either way. I also gave him the sveneth, he's pretty consistent now in touching, nothing dramatic, but properly formed punches - this is not what I expected to see, because I watched this fight at the time and my memory is of feeling the split was strange, even ludicrous but if you're ahead after seven,, and Ioka is for me, you tend not to be cast adrift. Amnat visibly frustrated late in the eighth, going for punches which just are not there. He maybe just about stops the rot in the ninth with longer punches, but he's in trouble here and needs to tie a couple together. Aggression and rough housing help. There's something weird about Amnat, sometimes he boxes like he's escaped from Arkam Asylum, but here he's been more like a choir boy, at least up until the ninth.

    Amnat wins the tenth by the odd uppercut and he needs it, because he has a point taken off for holding this round - tough to see him winning from here. Needs both the eleventh and twelfth. You don't know what the referee has said but that seems very premature to me. He takes the eleventh though, looks limber and relaxed, weirdly, moving very well given up those increments for loose-limbed mobility, impressive in the tenth. Arms are low though. Edges an entertaining round and for once is aided by the optics. So they both have two close rounds apiece and it comes down to the twelfth.

    Amnat wants to bait and shoot and out-prods Ioka in the first minute. Showboating and holding doesn't help him in the second minute but I think he lands the better punches and very few are thrown. These are tiny margins though - there to be won in the final minute. Ioka has a similarly better final minute but there's too much for a tiny advantage like that to overhaul - so it's Amnat close again.

    What a bizarre fight. Amnat wins with what looks on paper like a thrilling final third rally, like he dominated the fight late to retain his strap. But that's not true. Rather he edged all the rounds in different, weird ways. Experience maybe. Except he doesn't have that much :lol:

    AMNAT:1,3,5,9,10*,11,12.
    IOKA:2,4,6,7,8,

    *Amnat point off for holding.

    114-113 Amnat

    Official: 115-112, 119-108, 113-114

    Freakishly, all those cards are OK :lol:
     
  3. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    15,528
    10,738
    Aug 22, 2004
    Julio Borboa TKO 12 Robert Quiroga

    Good fight, if a little one-sided.

    I remember reading the KO Magazine interview with Quirogo immediately following the Anifowoshe fight, and was struck by two things; first, Quiroga seemed a man disenchanted with boxing, and second, he was fat. The photos in the article of him in the interview article show a full neck, full cheeks, and more than a little blubber. He was almost unrecognizable pared down to 115. In the ring this night, he looked drawn, tired, slow and at the end of his tether.

    Borboa, for his part, was what Quiroga had of course been just a couple years before; ambitious, well-trained, eager and sharp. Cycle of life.

    Borboa came right out took the fight to the champion, who was making his sixth defense, raking the seemingly smaller man with every punch imaginable. It sort of reminded me of the way Alejandro Gonzalez walked right into Kevin Kelley's face and took it to him, just throwing everything. Borboa seemed so much stronger and his punches had so much more snap on them.

    Quiroga was cut over one eye in the third, over the other in the fourth, and his eyes swelled the rest of the fight. He never stopped trying, but was clearly a fighter not long for the sport. It probably could have been allowed to go the full route but after consulting with the ringside physician, the ref waved it off with about 20 seconds left in Borboa's favor. Awell-earned victory, and a champion who went out on his shield.

    1. B
    2. Q
    3. B
    4. B
    5. B
    6. Q
    7. B
    8. B
    9. B
    10. Q
    11. B
    12. TKO
     
    George Crowcroft likes this.
  4. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    55,255
    10,334
    Jun 29, 2007
    Given Harda's chin and boxing ability, I think this result a little fluky. The fight was on the level 100%.

    There's something about the bantam weight division I never could fully understand, They can KO each other like heavyweights. Some of the highest KO% are from Bantam's. Most lower weight division are just not this way. Odd. Maybe the power ramps up a lot from flyweight, but the ability to take it does not?
     
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    112,019
    46,019
    Mar 21, 2007
    Amnat Ruenroeng SD12 McWilliams Arroyo

    Looks like easy money for Amnat in the first. He's dominating all phases, countering with cuffing combos when he makes Arroyo overreach with those small moves, dominating the battle of the jabs (such as it is) and foraging to the body when it's quiet. The second is more interesting. Amnat squeaks it still I think but it's closer. Arroyo is being much more careful about Amnat's first punch, he's got his gloves high, he's feinting to come in, he's not letting Amnat get started. The third has a different look again - this is pretty absorbing. The third, I think Arroyo squeks this on the harder punches. He's looking in this round a little like Ioka in that Amnat is inviting the pressure and Arroyo delivers. Amnat outhits him I think, barely, but Arroyo lands some nice uppercuts through the guard and looks excited about it too. We will see more of that punch. We do; in the fourth - and he adds a genuinely stiffening left hook, lands it only once, misses a lot with the right, but he's away, there's strategy in place, and it is now up to Amnat to adjust or eke out rounds.

    Arroyo battles his way to the fifth and then in the sixth Ruenroeng seeks battle to turn the tide and lands good uppercuts. He throws Arroyo to the ground, is warned, stands back up, is lashed with a left hook then sort of tumbles forward under some incidental punches, hurt by the left hook I think. He can't say he wasn't warned, even in this round a winging hook just missed him! Ruenroeng is in very bad trouble now. He needs five of the six remaining to win on my card

    He knows it too. He comes out aggressive in the seventh, steaming in fact, holding when he gets all the way inside, violent when he's outside. It's enough to win him the round but he is really holding a lot. It's crazy though, it really is Amnat building the momentum now and Arroyo is suddenly the man without a plan b. He's not going away, but he's suddenly a little shy and that's playing right into Amnat's hands. He's staying at range, Amnat running him with a one-two. Gorgeous straight right behind two thudding cuffing hooks that were for nothing bu setting up that punch. He pursues it in the ninth and tenth. Amnat also starts throwing his man about in the tenth, all but power-slams him. He's a dirty fighter with an intimidating air and he's going to rescue this fight I think.

    He throws a furious Arroyo over in the eleventh too, he's really gotten under his skin, wrestling, holding, fouling, and most of all hitting, fast-handed one-two to the body, to the head. You'd maybe give Arroyo the 12th on the pressure. Extraordinary.

    AMNAT:1,2,7,8,9,10,11.
    ARROYO:3,4,5,6*,12.

    *Amnat down.

    114-113 Amnat Ruenrueng

    Official: 114-113 x2, 113-114.
     
  6. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    26,814
    44,024
    Mar 3, 2019
    This content is protected


    Winky Wright is one of those guys who's style still escapes me. There's no picture I have in my head of Wright at his A-game, despite having seen quite a few of his fights. So I figured I'd watch his a few of his fights around before and after work with a bit more of an 'analytical' eye.

    This content is protected

    10 : 9
    10 : 9
    10 : 9
    10 : 9
    10 : 9
    10 : 9 (60/54)
    This content is protected


    Wow, what a performance. Clinical from Winky here. He didn't miss a beat and I can't remember Dodson landing a clean shot. I don't know what caused the stoppage, whether it was Dodson himself or just his corner, or perhaps even the swelling.

    Before I say what I saw in Wright, and I was majorly impressed, I'd just like to give a small ode to Dodson. He was quick, slippery and took a damn good punch. The commentators were talking like he was one of the best in the world, and just from watching him, I can buy it. He was showing techniques which are above average guys, he just wasn't competitive at all. Anyway - Winky. I liked what I saw. Very steady jab; heavy and quick, w/ lots of variety. Against Dodson he showed plenty of shrewd technical applications for it. EG: half sidestepping with his right foot, and turning them and his shoulder to just get new angles to fire straight from. Other things were like varying the volume and velocity that he threw them with to dissuade Dodson from trying to slip them.

    Wright just tee'd off with that jab, and brought a straight left down when Dodson tried to get inside. Wright's defence was subtle, but excellent. He just turned with everything up close, and parried whatever he had eyes on. No Whitaker-esque head-movement, but still a very nice defensive showing.

    I guess if God took Vernon Forrest and Marlon Starling, and then made him left handed, he'd have made something which fights a helluva lot like Winky Wright.
     
  7. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    26,814
    44,024
    Mar 3, 2019
    This content is protected


    My tape came today!!!!!!! I'm so excited for this I'm actually shaking whole typing.

    This content is protected

    10 : 9
    8 : 10
    9 : 10
    9 : 10 (36/39)
    10 : 9
    8 : 10
    10 : 9
    9 : 10 (
    This content is protected
    )
    This content is protected


    Slow first round before drama in the second. Third and fourth were huge rounds for Rivera, he had Kelley reeling with almost every punch.

    In round five, Kelley worked brilliantly with uppercuts and head-movement, he tagged Rivera a lot. Round six was damn hard to watch. Kelley got a standing eight count after a beating in the first minute, and Rivera just kept on landing clean for about a full minute before Kelley came right back on landed some nasty right hooks.

    Huge seventh for Kelley, as he lands some huge shots as Rivera straighens upright, and has him hurt. He wails on him for most of the round. Awesome round eight, as both exchange for the whole round and Rivera brings himself right back as he stuns Kelley and pins him in the corner for most of the round.

    Kelley stalks him for about 40 seconds in round nine, before exploding into a cross which puts Rivera down and out.

    Great fight.
     
  8. Amos-san

    Amos-san Member Full Member

    474
    631
    Feb 2, 2020
    Second and third fights with Mckart, first fight with Mosley and Trinidad fight were his ultimate masterpieces
     
    George Crowcroft likes this.
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    112,019
    46,019
    Mar 21, 2007
    Pongsaklek Wonjongkam MD12 Koki Kameda

    This fight, retrospectively, takes on new interest. When you look back it kind of feels like Pong might have been ready to make way for Koki, he wasn't far away from making way for Jaro. So it's kind of impressive that he was able to dust another number one contender.

    All southpaws, flashy start, both men want to be busy, Pong looks more assured as you'd expect, he slides the jab a bit but it comes with another punch in the form of the left hand quite often. The second is another good round. I like Koki's style despite myself - low hands, swapping between moving and holding and I think he just about lands the better punches in this round, I liked a left hook the bodyhe landed on the back foot very much. These Thai tv adverts are pretty mental. Not as mental as Bangladeshi adverts though.

    After saying Pong had a slidey jab in the first, he lands a couple of beauties to open the fourth; he's just controlling the space around him a little better, he's good at taking advantage of the slightest mistake in positioning on Koki's part, if he moves across instead of back and across, anything like that. Koki looks a tiny bit worn with it in this round to me, or maybe a little frustrated, his gloves are up now anyway. He stays in touch though by flashing in some decent punches in the fourth, but Pong feels more constant - more tangible. There's a sense that Kameda has to exceed to win rounds whereas Pong can win them by deploying. That's not how it will feel to the fighters of course, but it's the sense I get watching it. Pongsaklek does the better work in the fifth but has a point deducted because Kameda is cut during an accidental clash of heads. Mental that rule. Kameda is pretty badly cut though and the doctor has a close look.

    Kameda comes on strong at the end of the seventh and lands good punches behind some dedicated pressure. He's been circling wider and wider, I think because Pong is so good at punishing his proximity, here he comes in hard and straight and a booming right hook is his reward. Pong boxes conservatively in the eighth and splits Koki's guard with three or four very hard punches early in the round to put a lid on such behavior. Kameda bags the ninth, but it's all Pong down the stretch, pretty impressive given he's the guy with so much more on him at this point. Part of it is the better economy I think although in al honesty he moves more than he needs to - still, there's a world of difference between moving and being made to move.

    Cool veteran's performance.

    Pongsaklek:1,3,4,5*,6,8,10,11,12.
    Kameda:2,7,9.

    *Pongsaklek has a point taken off because Kameda is accidentally cut.

    116-111 Pongsaklek

    Official: 114-114, 115-112, 116-112.
     
  10. Phoenix Nights

    Phoenix Nights New Member Full Member

    5
    11
    Sep 28, 2020
    Virgil Hill v Bobby Czyz, March 1989

    Strange choice for a quiet evening in, but there we are. Didn't have a clue ahead of watching this who'd won because I really just don't know my stuff particularly well (as you'll learn if I keep posting). But after four rounds or so I thought it generally favoured Czyz, especially as the ref missed a flash, but obvious, knockdown in the third which would have given Czyz a 10-8 round. After that though I doubt Hill lost a round. Very mobile guy with the ability to mix up his left hand, albeit against a game but fairly lumbering Czyz. In fact there was a ten second or so exchange in the 12th which was the only occasion Hill stood in the middle of the ring all night, and he was wobbled. The only thing I really know about the rest of Hill's career was the long-range single body-punch knockout he suffered to Roy Jones much later. The 119-110 in Hill's favour was generous, but somewhere in the region of 117-111 would seem fair to me, or 116-111 if the knockdown had been awarded. Great crowd (remember those?) too in Bismarck North Dakota, wherever that is. I am from the UK and places like Bismarck North Dakota may as well be on the moon. The other thing to recommend this fight is that the YouTube version I saw kept the adverts between rounds and cut to a horse race whilst awaiting the decision.

    Bobby Czyz, I've since learned, is a Mensa member and walked to the ring for his fight with Holyfield years later wearing its t-shirt, lost his father to suicide aged 5 and most alarmingly had a to pull out of an amateur team boxing event in Europe in 1980 due to injuries sustained in a car crash a week earlier. The plane crashed in Warsaw, killing everyone on board. Tony Tucker should have been there too.

    So overall I wouldn't say you should make time to watch this bout especially, but it was a segway into some interesting reading, and I love these old TV broadcasts.
     
    Drew101, McGrain and salsanchezfan like this.
  11. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    15,528
    10,738
    Aug 22, 2004
    Welcome aboard!

    Bismarck is lovely, except in winter.

    Bobby Czyz is never shy about reminding people he's a mensa member. Some here like him anyway.
     
    George Crowcroft likes this.
  12. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

    7,739
    12,897
    Oct 20, 2017
    Aaron Pryor v Gaeten Hart

    Not a lot to say about this one, really. Pryor was Pryor, switching between his swarming and bouncing around his overmatched opponent. Hart lived up to his name but didn't show a lot else besides it. Easy, dominant defense for Pryor.

    1 10-9
    2 10-7
    3 10-9
    4 10-9
    5 10-9
    (50-43)
    6 Pryor TKO Hart
     
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    112,019
    46,019
    Mar 21, 2007
    Kosei Tanaka MD12 Sho Kimura

    Crazy, savage stuff. Tanaka had a single warm up before he stepped in with Kimura but still, "welcome to 112lbs. Kimura signals his readiness to duke it out from the off, and Tanaka is working a narrow circle, taking the numerous punching opportunities available to him. Both are fluid, both look well, Tanaka obviously more the technician. Kimura has the better start, Tanaka closes the gap, they both, clearly, have the durability to live with one another and are very interested in hitting one another. First round almost impossible to score; you know it's going to be good.

    Blistering start to the second from Tanaka, he's got his marker down, he knows where his man is and he's using the ring, tight, and delivering at every opportunity though. He gets inside for hooks to the body; he works uppercuts through the middle of the guard; Kimura though is more static but scores with stunningly similar punches on Tanaka's dollar. At the 1:20 remaining mark they are almost impossible to separate. Left hand to the body, right hand to the head, jab - these combos are wonderful. Tanaka drove Kimura back at the end of the second and it's enough to give him another close, glorious round. These guys are equal to one-aonter's hardest punches. They can get hit and come back. Tanaka absolutely tees off on Kimura at the beginning of the third, left to the body (wonderful punch), one-two, uppercuts through the middle, this **** is amazing. Kimura then lands uppercuts of his own, left hands to the body of his own, he kind of has to survive the onslaught then punch is way back into the round, his head sometimes literally resitng on Tanaka's head. Thing is, Tanaka is a tiny bit swifter and he always has other successes; it makes it hard for Kimura to win rounds despite some wonderful surges during the early-mid part of the rounds.

    In the fourth they just chop at each other. Why isn't Tanaka moving a bit more? He's finding that left to the body though, Kimura coming back less tidy but two-handed. I'm very unhappy with my scorecard after four, 4-0 to Tanaka, which hardly reflects what is happening in the ring but feels accurate to me on a frame by frame basis. Fortunately Kimura wins the fifth, opening with disciplined, straight punches, returning to the two-handed body attack, vulnerable to that stiffening looking left to the body but always retaliating. There is no sense that he has broken Tanaka, nor turned the tide, but he's banked one. Now he needs another one.

    Gets it too, working with left-handed impunity very early before they return to the tight circling, Kimura just about edging it, Tanaka still landing that left to the body - someone in the corner help him with that punch ffs. The direct exchanges are getting disturbing now. Turn about thrashings they are handing out. Kimura won those crucial fifth and the always important sixth to keep himself in touch. Sixth just defines so many twelve round fights, it is mad. I wonder what the equivalent is over fifteen if there is one. Tanakaclearly takes the seventh for me, showing response, prioritising busy over accuracy for the first time and driving Kimura off him for the first time since the second. Kimura comes roaring back in the final thirty seconds though to make it close. Of course.

    I hope these two fight a rematch at some point. They're both technically excellent, Tanaka especially, and you get the sense they can just hold each other's punches comfortably and no more. Slightly lest resistance or slightly more power on either side and there would be some stumbling, but as it stands they're always able to operate. Tanaka has taken over in the mid-rounds though after that Kimura surge and has the fight squared away by the ninth, barring disaster. Kimura comes absolutely roaring back though as Tanaka fades just that little bit, letting Kimura in to run the show despite serious swelling of his right eye. Kimura had a sort of false surge at the end of the eighth, if he could have got started for real then he would have won the ninth and drawn the fight for me. Never mind.

    Tanaka:1,2,3,4,7,8,9.
    Kimura:5,6,10,11,12.

    115-113 Tanaka. As good as boxing gets, really.

    Official: 116-112, 115-113, 114-114
     
  14. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

    10,145
    12,206
    Mar 2, 2006
    George, every so often the universe aligns itself in a completely different manner. And it did so in this bout. I think you and I had an opposite score in just about every round. Which is way weird because we usually see things similarly. Anyways, here we go.

    Jung Koo Chang v German Torres II

    Round 1: 10-9 Torres
    Round 2: 10-9 Torres
    Round 3: 10-9 Torres
    Round 4: 10-9 Chang
    Round 5: 10-9 Torres
    Round 6: 10-9 Chang
    Round 7: 10-9 Torres
    Round 8: 10-9 Chang
    Round 9: 10-9 Chang
    Round 10: 10-9 Torres
    Round 11: 10-10 Even
    Round 12: 10-9 Torres

    Total: 116-113 Torres (actual scores: 115-114 and 116-114 both for Chang and a 114-114 for a majority win for Chang)

    I'm unclear if any points were taken from Chang by Arthur Mercante. Twice he made unusual gestures that could be construed as penalization. Once in the 5th round and once in the 7th, but I am unclear. I see that Sweet Scientist scored this sometime back and he too had it for Torres by a 116-113 card, but he showed his 5th round as a 9-9 with no details. Just something I'd like to know. But getting to the fight. I know a lot of guys on here like Chang, but I gotta tell you, he doesn't click with me. I was far more impressed with Torres' combos, straight rights and body shots than Chang's haymakers, which seems to be his principle attack. I know this is often referred to as one of his worst fights, so I would like to be enlightened. I have seen his bouts with Chiquita and Alfonso Lopez. I attempted to watch his 15 rounder today with Zapata, but the 3rd round came up missing and I stopped. Can anyone recommend a really good Chang fight? How about his bout with Chitalda? I see that is out there.
     
    Jel and George Crowcroft like this.
  15. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    26,814
    44,024
    Mar 3, 2019
    Sure thing man. If you're looking for action, then the Tokashiki, Ohashi ramtch, Kittikasem, Chitalada II, Torres III and Zapata I. Those are all great fights IMO, but maybe that's not what you were after.

    His best performances were Zapata II & Torres I. These are the camps he's rumoured to have had absolutely no problems with making the weight and so could focus 100% on boxing, endurance and strategy. Ursua & Ohashi I are also great performances.

    Chang had massive problems with weight. I think that's why he burnt out so quickly. Every fight he seemed to booze binge and bloat up 30-40lbs, and then have to spend most of his camp working that off. Or at least that's what I remember from @FighterInTheWind's posts. I'm sure you could search the word Chang under Fighter's wind and find some brilliant info.

    His decision losses to Chitalada and Zapata are highly controversial. The first Chitalada fight was pretty clear, and was only a difficult outing for Chang due to a head-butt. He won handedly in another impressive performance.
     
    scartissue and Jel like this.