the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mantequilla, Nov 20, 2009.



  1. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    So what was your final score? I think I've seen almost all of Azumah's title fights (certainly all of them, sans this one and Laporte, in his prime) but like I say, not this one.

    You make it sound entertaining and frankly awesome, should I give it a watch? Lots of close rounds; hard to score?
     
  2. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    Final score is at the bottom of the card prior to round 12 (in brackets): 106-104 Nelson.

    Good fight, entertaining and well worth a watch. I had it closer than 2 of the judges who had it 106-102 Nelson but the judge who had it 106-102 to McDonnell was just wrong - no way was McDonnell winming the fight going into the final round.

    Yeah, I'd recommend it, George.
     
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  3. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Cool, will watch and score some point this week.

    What do you think of Nelson as a puncher?
     
  4. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    Very hard, although not consistently concussive (I say as a non-boxer!) - it's the combination of power and strength that makes him formidable in my view.

    I find his defense interesting as well - sometimes high guard covering his face, other times cross-armed. Not sure what prompts the change up of style.
     
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  5. Bujia

    Bujia Well-Known Member Full Member

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    He changed up his offensive techniques just as often, if not more. I have no answer for someone who asks me what his style was. Insane versatility, but it could be pretty frustrating, too.
     
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  6. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I think Nelson's biggest weakness is often his lack of interest when forced to chase a man down. He just meandered after them, not cutting off the ring, not throwing much, not much snap in his shots.

    Made fights with Martinez and Villasana much closer than they needed to be, and I thought Martinez pretty clearly won their first fight.
     
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  7. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Just watched a good hard 10 rounder today between undefeated hotshot Jackie Beard against Jose Caba. This was good matchmaking IMO. Beard had such an impressive amateur pedigree, was 12-0 as a pro and was being pushed along nicely and needed a good name on his record and Caba fit the bill. He had height and reach on Caba but Caba had fought unsuccessfully for the featherweight title against Danny Lopez (although he really didn't deserve his title shot). So it looked good and was good.

    Round 1: 10-9 Caba
    Round 2: 10-9 Beard
    Round 3: 10-9 Beard
    Round 4: 10-8 Caba (Caba scores a knockdown)
    Round 5: 10-9 Caba
    Round 6: 10-10 Even
    Round 7: 10-9 Beard
    Round 8: 10-9 Caba
    Round 9: 10-10 Even
    Round 10: 10-9 Caba

    Total: 97-94 Caba (actual scores: 95-95 and scores of 97-92 and 97-95 both for Caba for a majority win)

    The winner of this bout was supposed to get a title shot at Eusebio Pedroza. And Caba did, but a year and a half later. Don't know what happened there. Beard did very well but should have boxed more. Whenever he was infighting he was getting tagged by those right hands of Caba. Still, it was his style and it it is what it is. And it made for a good fight.
     
  8. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I had recently watched Engels Pedroza v Agustin Caballero, which was an awesome fight. Pedroza was a kill or be killed type fighter and I really needed to see him again. Here is his second bout with Louis Howard. He had stopped Howard in 4 in their first go-round, but I'll give Howard credit for going again. This was scheduled for 12 for some BS title.

    Round 1: 10-10 Even
    Round 2: 10-9 Pedroza
    Round 3: 10-9 Pedroza
    Round 4: 10-9 Pedroza (a terrific round)
    Round 5: 10-9 Pedroza
    Round 6: 10-9 Howard
    Round 7: Howard stops Pedroza

    Total through 6 rounds: 59-56 Pedroza

    This seemed the norm in a Pedroza fight where he goes all out and then gasses. Howard stayed the route countering where he could and met with success. Win or lose its always enjoyable when Engels Pedroza is in the ring.
     
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  9. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Rough, I finally got around to check out the first fight between Daniel Zaragoza and Joichiro Tatsuyoshi. Although the fight as a whole is entertaining, it really was a lopsided score for the Mexican. No point running a card here, I had it 100-91 (giving Joichiro only a share of the 7th) through 10 completed rounds for Zaragoza before it was stopped in the 11th (official cards were 99-91, 99-91 and 99-90). Both fighters were busted up, but Joichiro moreso. It took the 3rd time of the doctor reluctantly checking Joichiro out before he stopped it. I think he was starting to worry about the status of his medical license after the fight if he didn't. He was busted up over and under both eyes and couldn't get out of the way of Zaragoza's right jab, straight lefts and looping hooks. I noted in the 9th that the Japanese corner should really pull him out of the fight, but he fought on with heart. I understand their second fight was much closer.
     
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  10. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    Jose Napoles v Ernie Lopez 1

    This is Napoles smack bang in the middle of his flawless first title reign. He'd already disposed of Curtis Cokes twice and won a wide decision over Emile Griffith the year before so now it was Ernie Lopez's turn (Napoles would meet him again during his second reign).

    I kept referring to Lopez as 'Poor Ernie' in my head because he was simply outclassed in there. To be fair to him, he did pretty well over the first 5 rounds, which is where he picked up his only rounds on my card. He looked to have started well in the first but then got dropped by a left hook out of nowhere. Still, he was doing okay after that until Napoles started to find his range and his timing and from the 6th onwards it was a shutout.

    Another complete masterclass from Napoles and at that point of 1970 it would have been inconceivable that Mantequilla wouldn't be champion by the end of the year.

    1 10-8 (Lopez starts well but then gets dropped with a left hook)
    2 9-10 (close. Good recovery from Lopez)
    3 10-9
    4 10-9 (close)
    5 9-10
    6 10-9
    7 10-9 (Napoles is zoned in now - he's timing Lopez well)
    8 10-9
    9 10-8 (Napoles puts Lopez down again)
    10 10-9
    11 10-9
    12 10-9
    13 10-9
    14 10-9
    (138-126)
    15 Napoles TKO Lopez
    (Lopez down for the third time in the fight and the ref stops further punishment after Napoles batters Ernie in the corner)
     
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  11. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    Fighting Harada v Alan Rudkin

    Good fight that got a bit scrappy towards the end but the skills on display were great. If Rudkin had a punch, he'd have been one hell of a tough fighter to beat because he had superb skills but Harada was just a machine.

    I had this close but my overall impression was that Harada was comfortably ahead and was winning the fight so I was a bit surprised when I tallied up. Some of the late rounds I found really tough to score as there was a lot of holding and I ended up with three even rounds between 10 and 15 which was a bit unsatisfactory.

    1 10-9 (close round but ref called a slip at the end by Rudkin a knockdown - no way)
    2 9-10
    3 10-9 (Rudkin boxing well but Harada landed the more telling blows)
    4 9-10
    5 10-9
    6 10-9
    7 10-9 (Harada definitely on top now)
    8 9-10 (better round for Rudkin)
    9 9-10 (close)
    10 10-10
    11 10-9
    12 10-10
    13 9-10 (close)
    14 10-9
    15 10-10 (a lot of holding, no clear advantage)
    Harada 145-143 Rudkin
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2020
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  12. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    Ruben Olivares v Jesus Pimental

    Another all-Mexican clash in the golden era of Mexican bantams. This was Olivares' final defense before meeting Rafael Herrera and Pimental's final career fight - hell of a way to go out. This was a stellar year for Olivares - he beat Chuco Castillo in their rubber match, KO'ed Efren Torres and rounded out the year beating Pimental (not to mention a FOTY contender against Kanazawa in the fight previous to this one).

    Pimental did well over the first 5 rounds but the KD in the 6th swung things fully in Ruben's direction and he dominated from there.

    1 10-10
    2 10-9
    3 10-9 (the fight explodes - great back and forth action)
    4 9-10 (Pimental drops Olivares who touches down briefly, I think, but the ref either doesn't spot it or doesn't consider it a KD)
    5 9-10
    6 10-8 (Olivares puts Pimental through the ropes)
    7 10-9
    8 10-9
    9 10-9
    10 10-9
    11 10-9
    (108-101)
    Olivares TKO Pimental
     
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  13. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    Muhammad Ali v Ken Norton 1 and 2

    Never scored these fights so thought I should rectify that.

    Ken Norton v Muhammad Ali 1

    Norton fought superbly well here, using his jab at range and then attacking the body when in close.

    By the 10th, Norton had done enough on my card to win the fight and there was no doubt about the winner - not sure how one judge scored this to Ali.

    1 10-9 (good opener)
    2 10-9 (close)
    3 9-10
    4 10-9
    5 10-9 (close)
    6 9-10 (close)
    7 10-10
    8 9-10
    9 10-9
    10 10-9 (Norton bossing Ali)
    11 9-10 (good recovery from Ali)
    12 10-9 (Norton closes the show - a clear winner)
    Norton 116-113 Ali

    Muhammad Ali v Ken Norton 2

    Much tougher to score and I can see the case for an Ali win here. I had 4 rounds close, including the 9th which I scored even but two of the other other 3 close rounds went to Norton on my card. Ali controlled the first half before Norton came on strong fron round 7 on.

    1 10-9
    2 10-9
    3 10-9 (Ali more mobile than the first fight)
    4 9-10
    5 10-9 (close)
    6 9-10 (close)
    7 9-10 (Norton's best round so far)
    8 9-10 (Norton is coming on now; Ali looking tired)
    9 10-10 (terrific round -Ali toughs it out and trades in ring centre)
    10 9-10
    11 9-10 (close)
    12 10-9 (strong finish from Ali - it had to be)

    Ali 114-115 Norton
     
  14. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Jel, for what it's worth, here is my scores on the trilogy.

    Ali-Norton I - California scoring

    Round 1: Ali
    Round 2: Norton
    Round 3: Ali
    Round 4: Norton
    Round 5: Norton
    Round 6: Norton
    Round 7: Ali
    Round 8: Ali
    Round 9: Norton
    Round 10: Norton
    Round 11: Ali
    Round 12: Norton

    Total: 7-5 Norton (In rounds and on points)

    There was always the usual dispute of what the round the jaw-break took place. The Ali corner said it was the first round. The Norton corner said it was the 12th. But it was interesting to hear Cosell say in the 8th that there was something wrong with Ali's mouth and surmised it might be a broken tooth. Didn't remember that from the original telecast, so it could have taken place anywhere around mid-fight.

    Ali v Norton II - California scoring

    California scoring of one point for a round, 2 if there is a knockdown and no points for an even round.

    Round 1: Ali
    Round 2: Ali
    Round 3: Ali
    Round 4: Ali
    Round 5: Even
    Round 6: Ali
    Round 7: Norton
    Round 8: Norton
    Round 9: Ali
    Round 10: Even
    Round 11: Norton
    Round 12: Ali

    7-3-2 in rounds but 7-3 on California point system for Ali.

    Ali v Norton III - NY rounds basis

    Ali-Norton fight in Yankee Stadium. Scoring on the NY rounds basis.

    Round 1: Ali
    Round 2: Norton
    Round 3: Ali
    Round 4: Norton
    Round 5: Norton
    Round 6: Norton
    Round 7: Even
    Round 8: Norton
    Round 9: Ali
    Round 10: Ali
    Round 11: Ali
    Round 12: Norton
    Round 13: Ali
    Round 14: Norton
    Round 15: Ali

    Total: 7-7-1 Draw
     
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  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Kenshiro Teraji MD12 Pedro Guevera

    Ken Teraji is my type of fighter. He rolls straight out of a close, tough fight with Ganigan Lopez and into another one, this time with the world's number one light-fly, Pedro Guevera. Kid loves it. This was before his brutal assault upon Lopez in the rematch and I wasn't 100% sold on him. Guevera, i loved, a sort of boxing 101 master, doing all the basics so very well he was a sort of truth-finder at the weight, like a gatekeeper who also happened to be the best in the world if that makes any sense at all.

    Something else about this fight that makes no sense - Terajji won it despite a bad start and a bad finish; he lost two of the first three rounds, then lost three of the last five. It was between 4 and 7 that he really won this fight, and he seems to do it with a very simple plan of his own. Watching on the low-risk strategy Guevera used on the outside coupled with the risks he took on the inside (left hooks to the gut thrown from wide) he looked for his jab and attempted to tie up his man inside or get across him with very speedy punches designed not to hurt I don't think but to rule the exchanges. Meanwhile he was sitting down on hos jab to keep his man honest and rack up those points. I don't there's anyway to prevent Guevera throwing back being honest and he's going to score because he's unambitious, but this was as good a solution to a difficult problem. As his workrate began to trouble Pedro, he was able to add shortarm punches to the body but he never strayed far from that jabbing strategy in the middle rounds.

    WBC open scoring robs us of what should be a tension-drenched battle of adjustment and counter-adjustment in which Teraji is good for his MD.

    Teraji:2,4,5,6,7,10,12.
    Pedro:1,3,8,9,11.

    115-113 Teraji.