the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mantequilla, Nov 20, 2009.

  1. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

    Mar 2, 2006
    Yoko Gushiken v Pedro Flores II

    Gushiken has got a fair amount of love on this thread, but I don't think anyone has checked out this fight. The rematch between he and Mexico's Pedro Flores. I was following Gushiken fairly close back in the day and I remember reading about their first fight and how Flores rattled him fairly late in their first 15 rounder. Thus the rematch, and it was a totally enjoyable fight.

    Round 1: 10-9 Gushiken
    Round 2: 10-9 Gushiken
    Round 3: 10-9 Gushiken
    Round 4: 10-9 Gushiken
    Round 5: 10-10 Even
    Round 6: 10-9 Flores
    Round 7: 10-9 Gushiken
    Round 8: 10-8 Flores (scores a knockdown)
    Round 9: 10-8 Flores (no knockdown, but Flores batters Yoko - today this fight would have been stopped here)
    Round 10: 10-9 Gushiken
    Round 11: 10-9 Flores
    Round 12: Flores drops and stops Gushiken

    Total through 11 rounds: 104-104 Even (actual scores: 107-106 for Gushiken, 106-103 and 107-104 for Flores)

    To begin, Gushiken was a very strong jr. fly, but he had no defense for Flores' lead right. One could see this even in the first round when he got rattled late in the round. I noted that today the fight would have been stopped in the 9th round, so it was amazing how I felt Gushiken won the 10th. But it was apparent - to me anyway - that Flores punched himself out in the 9th and was grabbing a breather. In the 12th, after the first knockdown I was screaming aloud to stop the fight. A bit of an unnecessary battering there. I really liked Yoko back then and it is always sorry to see a great champ beat. But it was still a good fight and one worth viewing.
    George Crowcroft likes this.
  2. Jel

    Jel Reserving the right to be inconsistent Full Member

    Oct 20, 2017
    Cornelius Boza Edwards v Roberto Elizondo

    A fight that built momentum as it went along until the final 3 round crescendo. Classic stuff. If Elizondo did take the 2nd, I'd make it 96-94 to Boza.

    1 9-10 (close)
    2 (most of round missing. Elizondo's round by the sound of it - 9-10?)
    3 10-9
    4 10-9
    5 10-9 (close)
    6 10-9
    7 10-9 (close)
    8 9-10 (sensational action)
    9 9-10 (close, more great action)
    10 10-9 (crazy final round action)

    Total from 9 rounds scored:
    Boza 87-84 Elizondo
  3. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Aug 22, 2004
    Ever seen Elizondo-Kenty? One of the stranger bouts I've seen.
  4. Jel

    Jel Reserving the right to be inconsistent Full Member

    Oct 20, 2017
    No, I read about it though. I should watch it as it's only 2 rounds.
    salsanchezfan likes this.
  5. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

    Mar 2, 2006
    George, every so often one of these fights comes down the pike where you and I disagree. And it's not too often. But in this case we did. First of all, we are looking at 10 rounds of infighting, so for me it came down to weighing who was landing cleaner and/or harder and that's when it becomes anyones fight. I've never been a fan of Castro's, so it pained me to lean towards him. He brought strength and harder punching to the table, whereas Duran brought his beautiful short hooks and positioning to the fore. But his age and weight prevented him from doing what he did so magically in his youth. Anyways, here we go.

    Round 1: 10-9 Castro
    Round 2: 10-10 Even
    Round 3: 10-9 Duran
    Round 4: 10-9 Castro
    Round 5: 10-9 Duran
    Round 6: 10-9 Castro
    Round 7: 10-10 Even
    Round 8: 10-9 Castro
    Round 9: 10-9 Castro
    Round 10: 10-9 Castro

    Total: 98-94 Castro

    Again, this was 10 rounds of infighting, so it really depends on what is impressing you. I would venture to say most of us would come up with different scores on this as every round was tight.
    George Crowcroft likes this.
  6. Jel

    Jel Reserving the right to be inconsistent Full Member

    Oct 20, 2017
    Cornelius Boza-Edwards v Guy Villegas

    Another bonkers Boza fight. Villegas started fast and tried to overwhelm Boza with high pressure and volume but Boza weathered the storm and started to come back at him from round 4 on. Still, the ending was sudden with Boza dropping Villegas hard twice before the referee stepped in with Villegas prone against the ropes.

    1 9-10
    2 9-10
    3 9-10
    4 10-9
    5 10-9 (close)
    6 9-10 (close)
    7 Boza TKO Villegas
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  7. TheMikeLake

    TheMikeLake Well-Known Member Full Member

    Jun 17, 2013
    Heading into the nostalgia machine for this one. On April 22, 1995, I was 12 years old. I remember the night because I was watching the fights, and at the end of it a woman screamed outside of my bedroom window in downtown Annapolis. I then saw a car drive away super quick, and my dad called the cops. I always wondered what happened to that woman.

    The fight that night was George Foreman-Axel Schultz. It was one of the first fights I ever remember wanting to watch, as I thought Foreman was a funny fellow, with his hamburgers. However, by the end of the fight, I was pretty sure Schultz had won. Now, this is a full two years before I really started to follow boxing, so I only had limited knowledge of the sweet science. I think at 12 though, I realized at the end of the fight I would have rather been Schultz than Foreman. A quarter century later I am ready to view this fight for only the second time in my life to see if old me feels the same as young me. Unfortunately for this exercise I had looked at a fan scorecard site, and out of about a dozen scorecards, the best Foreman could pull off was a draw (twice). So, I think I know what I'm getting into for the most part, but alas, let's turn on the nostalgia machine.


    9-10 close
    9-10 Good shots by both men, Axel walked through a big uppercut, landed a good right of his own at the end of the round.
    9-10 Clearest round so far for Axel, the first three i'd be responsive to either guy.
    9-10 Lederman had it 3-1 Schultz, but said Schultz is running away, lol, no. Schultz is fighting great, imo.
    10-9 close. Merchant **** on Schultz the whole prefight and through first six rounds here. His card was 4-1 after 5 for Foreman
    10-9 Foreman's best round, especially first half. Schultz closes strong and Foreman's left eye is swelling bad.
    9-10 Foreman lands a bomb early but Schultz boxes beautifully. Merchant earlier called him a competitive athlete not a skilled boxer, lol
    9-10 close, Merchant has it 6-2 after 8 for Foreman. Says Foreman is winning 2.5 min of every round. I don't know what he's watching.
    9-10 Schultz is just boxing beautifully, Foreman lands some shots but not nearly enough to take many rounds
    10-9, Good round. Foreman fought like he was behind, but Schultz nearly went shot for shot
    9-10 Schulz's corner tells him to stay away, he immediately disobeys and engages the entire round


    Official cards 115-113 x 2 and 114-114, Foreman retains by Majority Decision

    Final Thoughts - The final round felt like a coronation for Schultz AND he won the round (on my card). The Germans in the crowd and watching in Oder cheered the entire final round. When the final bell rang Schultz lifted his hands knowing he had just done something special. Foreman put his head down and walked back to his corner.

    Lederman and I agreed on the 117-111, I think we got their slightly different. Clancy said he had it 8-4, but earlier in the fight he said he scored a round a draw, so, yeah. Merchant seemed to second guess himself as the fight went on, not giving his scorecard after the 8th round or so, but he did maintain he thought Foreman won.

    Knowing what is coming didn't make it any easier. Foreman really does look like he got away with one and Schultz is heartbroken. I had some close rounds, but no amount of mental gymnastics can get me to 7 to 5 for George, or 6-6. Pretty big bummer watching this to be honest. Great effort by Schultz, he deserved to be lineal champion of the world.
    The Slaps, Jel and George Crowcroft like this.
  8. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

    Mar 3, 2019
    She told my friend that he couldn't have his teddy bear back, so he drove over her foot.
  9. TheMikeLake

    TheMikeLake Well-Known Member Full Member

    Jun 17, 2013
    Continuing Axel Schulz's heartbreak tour, we now head to Germany for Moorer vs. Schultz. This is the second fight after losing the highly disputed decision to Foreman. The fight prior to this, he fought Botha for the vacant IBF title, he lost that one too to the scorecards, but Botha got popped for roids, so was stripped and the bout was called a no-decision. Schultz gets his third chance in a row at a world title in this one. Moorer comes into this one with a comeback victory over Melvin Foster, having been stopped by Foreman the fight before.

    I've never seen this one, though the announcers tell us they felt he was robbed in his last two, and even though I've never seen this one, I think it's coming again.

    9-10 Close. Moorer may have nicked it with an uppercut towards the end of the round.
    9-10 Schulz's is a good boxer, the problem is Moorer is better at this kind of fight, so far.
    10-9 Another close one which may have been decided in the final seconds of the round, this one for Axel
    9-10 Axel started and finished the round well but Moorer was the better fighter for the majority.
    9-10 Axel's getting outboxed every step of the way so far. It's a pretty pure boxing match, and Moorer is just more skilled.
    9-10 Moorer just putting on a clinic at this point
    10-9 Moorer was either taking a round off or getting really tired
    9-10 close, Moorer is tired, but Schulz didn't really capitalize at all. He had some good moments near the end of the round, but not enough, imo
    10-9 Axel's best round. Moorer showing major signs of fatigue.
    10-9, close but clear for Axel. Moorer seems to be getting some wind back. Fight has gotten better as Moorer has tired
    9-10 Big round for Moorer, things would have gotten a lot more interesting on my card with a Schulz round, but Moorer responded bigly.
    10-9 Honestly, could have gone either way, but I don't like giving even rounds, tbh.

    113-115 is how my card ends. If I swap my close rounds I think I still get to 115-113, meaning theoretically Axel could have won on my card, but I really feel like Moorer was the better fighter and in hindsight sort of surprised it was this close on my final card

    Official scorecards - 113-115 Schulz, 116-113 Moorer, and 115-113 Moorer, for the winner and new IBF champion, Double M.

    Final thoughts - After viewing these last two fights for Schulz, I feel like Schulz was a poor man's Michael Moorer, but with a better chin. They were the same size and had the same height virtually, and they both fought George Foreman a similar way, as long as the fight lasted anyway. I don't know if Schulz deserved another shot after this. Maybe in all is fair land he would have, as he lost to Foreman who he probably beat, Botha who was roided to the gills, and then this fight, which was close. Schulz wouldn't really sniff the big time again, other than a fight against Wlad, four years later, in which he was stopped.

    The announcers said the winner of this fight would possibly fight Tyson, who beat Seldon shortly after this one. That obviously didn't happen. Decent fight, nothing special.

    If I learned anything during this exercise is that American announcers had zero respect for Schulz. They made it seem like he was a guy who had just picked up boxing and had luckboxed his way to these fights. He was a former world champion medalist, and deserved more credit for what "we" gave him.
  10. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

    Mar 2, 2006
    Jel, I had Boza up over Elizondo 97-95 at the end. I did take that leap of faith in the 2nd round. I felt what we did see of the round, Elizondo controlled and the commentator saying that Elizondo 'sparkled' that round was what I needed to hear. BTW, those last 3 rounds of that fight was off the charts. Regarding Boza-Villegas, I had Villegas up 59-57 after 6 rounds. But I noted on my scorecard that despite my score, never at any time did Boza look like he wasn't going to turn the bout around. Like he was just biding his time letting the young gunslinger blow his wad and then go for the kill. Love watching Boza.
    Jel likes this.
  11. Jel

    Jel Reserving the right to be inconsistent Full Member

    Oct 20, 2017
    Yes, I hedged on the 2nd but you're right, from what there was to see plus the commentators comments, I don't think it's too much of a leap of faith to assume Elizondo won that round. And yeah, brilliant 3 rounds between 8 and 10.

    Re the Villegas fight, had a plan A and that was it and it was a bad one really, which was to overwhelm Boza with volume. All he succeeded in doing was running out of steam so yes, I had Villegas up but Boza was always going to turn the fight around.
    scartissue likes this.
  12. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

    Mar 2, 2006
    Philly, I'm latching onto one of your old posts here. I recenly watched the second Gushiken-Flores fight, which I thoroughly enjoyed and have proceeded in watching a bit more Gushiken. Always followed his career in the magazines, so I love watching them on youtube. Anyways, I see you scored Gushiken-Guzman so I scored this and the Lopez fight today. Here we go.

    Juan Guzman v Yoko Gushiken (5 point must)

    Round 1: 5-4 Gushiken
    Round 2: 5-2 Gushiken (scores 2 knockdowns)
    Round 3: 5-4 Gushiken
    Round 4: 5-3 Gushiken (scores a knockdown)
    Round 5: 5-4 Gushiken
    Round 6: 5-4 Gushiken
    Round 7: Gushiken KOs Guzman

    Total through 6 completed rounds: 30-21 Gushiken (actual scores: 29-24, 29-20 and 29-25 all for Gushiken)

    Regarding the fight, Guzman was brave but not half as brave as his corner for allowing such a battering. Regarding the scores, I would say the only controversy would be the 3d round. I can see you gave the 3rd to Guzman and probably all the judges did too. However, I didn't see it quite there. I felt the only thing Guzman really did was buckle Gushiken's knees with a great shot that round. But leading up to it, I already felt in my mind that Gushiken was looking at a 2 point round due to the battering he was handing out to Guzman that round. And after the knee-buckler, I felt Gushiken picked up where he left off. But, hey, this is why we're on this thread. To discuss.

    Yoko Gushiken v Alfonso Lopez (10 point must)

    Round 1: 10-10 Even
    Round 2: 10-9 Lopez
    Round 3: 10-9 Lopez
    Round 4: 10-9 Lopez
    Round 5: 10-9 Gushiken
    Round 6: 10-9 Lopez
    Round 7: Gushiken KOs Lopez

    Total through 6 completed rounds: 59-56 Lopez (actual scores: 59-58 for Gushiken and 2 scores of 59-59.)

    I always felt Alfonso Lopez was never the same after the first Guty Espada KO. The chin was just shaky after that. And fighting a powerhouse like Gushiken didn't bode well. However, he fought a brilliant fight until the inevitable happened. I had him ahead on his speedy, sharp counters. The knockout blow was aided by another full-blooded shot when Lopez was down, with no warning or time to recover or any of that. Moreover, the WBA allowed all 3 scoring officials from Japan. Man, Lopez never had a chance.
    Amos-san, Jel and PhillyPhan69 like this.
  13. TheMikeLake

    TheMikeLake Well-Known Member Full Member

    Jun 17, 2013
    Had a nice write-up going for Freitas vs. Barrios but I lost it. I want to blame it on my kids, but I guess I could have done a better job of saving it.

    Barrios is a mean, tough, sob. He fought half of this fight with a ruptured ear drum and a cut around his eye that's among the worst I've seen. I had forgotten that Barrios used the refs shirt a number of times to wipe the blood from his eyes. This was one of my favorite fights as a kid. Barrios sure made things interesting, knocking Freitas down twice and tightening the gap down the stretch. The boom Popo lands at 3 minutes of the 11th round is one for the ages. If Barrios had a ruptured eardrum before that punch I'm going to guess it exploded after it. The fight ends in the 12th when Barrios rises from a knockdown somehow, but has no legs or balance, and the ref calls it, rightfully so. Hell of a fight, highly recommend.

    As far as my card, I would have guessed I had it something like 6-4-1 (The round Barrios knocks down Popo was a Popo round so I scored it even) If Barrios has the only knockdown of the 11th and wins the 12, things get very interesting if we go to the cards.
  14. TheMikeLake

    TheMikeLake Well-Known Member Full Member

    Jun 17, 2013
    Jorge Barrios vs. Mike Anchondo

    After three straight victories in his home country of Argentina, Barrios returns stateside to face young and undefeated Anchondo. Anchondo entered the fight 4.5 pounds overweight. When the bell rang to start the fight Anchondo looks bone dry, fleshy, and disinterested. Barrios is not the guy you want to have those traits against. Anchondo's corner, led by Buddy McGirt had seen enough near the end of the 4th. Barrios was about to have two points deducted for something that nobody was sure about except the ref, but that wasn't even enough to have Anchondo see another round.

    Barrios vs. Janos Nagy

    Nagy was another undefeated fighter, that is until 45 seconds into this fight. A well placed right hand put Nagy down, and out of professional boxing forever.

    Barrios was one hell of a gatekeeper and if he wasn't world class, he sure as hell was close.
  15. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

    Mar 2, 2006
    Jel, I watched this one again tonight. This fight has always been my 'go to' fight when I just want to watch a great bout of boxing. Both fighters throw the fastest, hardest, cleanest blows I've seen. And the 6th round is off the charts. I had it a bit closer than you at 49-47, but its irrelevant. Just a great fight.
    Jel likes this.