the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mantequilla, Nov 20, 2009.

  1. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

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    George, I checked this fight out today and saw afterwards that you and Jel had a dialogue on this. Man, what a good fight. Yuh establishes early that he has more pop in his shots but he has to run a heavy gauntlet from Blanco's sharp jab and sizzling combos.

    Round 1: 10-9 Blanco
    Round 2: 10-9 Blanco
    Round 3: 10-9 Yuh
    Round 4: 10-9 Yuh
    Round 5: 10-9 Yuh
    Round 6: 10-10 Even
    Round 7: 10-9 Yuh
    Round 8: Yuh KOs Blanco

    Total: 68-66 Yuh

    There is such a fine line between each round I can see some varying scores, but I can't see the score of the judge that gave everything to Yuh. Blanco was there to win the title not be a passenger and he never stopped firing those salvos. A really good fight.
     
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  2. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

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    If you think that was good, check out the first DeMarco and DeJesus fights!
     
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  3. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

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    Juan Manuel Marquez vs Marco Antonio Barrera

    Always heard this one was extremely difficult to score, and I've also heard that it was pretty good. I've been watching a few Marquez fights, and so figured I'd watch this.

    Marquez-Barrera
    9 : 10
    9 : 10
    10 : 9
    9 : 10* (37/39)
    10 : 9
    10 : 9*
    8 : 9*
    9 : 10* (74/76)
    10 : 9*
    10 : 9
    10 : 9
    9 : 10* (113/113)

    I thought in the first two, Barrera was the sharper man and he was beating Marquez to the punch consistently. Very quick on the draw.

    Marquez started to time him after that, in the third.

    Barrera slightly edged the fourth on my card, with his stuttered jab. Very, very close that one.

    Marquez out-working him in the fifth.

    Both men more aggressive and dirtier in the sixth, slight edge to Marquez, whose uppercut impressed me.

    Eight and nine were very close and very entertaining. I went with who I thought landed cleaner.

    Easy tenth for Marquez. He showed effective aggression, great defence, was the ring general and landed cleaner. You can't ask for more from him.

    Closer in the eleventh, but I thought Marquez won clearly again. He threw more, landed cleaner and put together some beautiful shots.

    Great finish! Incredibly close finish, I thought Barrera landed a bit cleaner. Although he was sloppier and held a bit. Really close round again.

    Round 7: Wow! Okay, so this is a bit of unique situation here. As a prospective judge, I think I exercise my ability to overrule the referee's call. That was very clearly a KD, and the point deduction was absolutely just (whether it was or wasn't, nobody can overrule that). That would make it a two point round, but with a point deducted from MAB; IE: 9-8 for Barrera.

    Outside of that strange débâcle in the final ten seconds, I thought Marquez was dominating the round. Not enough to where I'd say he was close to stopping Barrera, or enough for it to have been a two point round in it's own right, but definitely a clear Marquez round.

    I can really see this 9-9. If you're someone who doesn't like to overrule the officials (fair enough), then 10-8 Marquez is fair too.

    I really like these types of fights. The type where two elite operators try to figure eachother out until eventually they knuckle into it. Love watching these. This one wasn't Toney-McCallum or anything but far from boring.

    Tit-for-tat through six, very technical. Watching Marquez feint with his lead hand, setting up body shots and trying to draw a lead from Barrera, to no avail, was quite entertaining. Marquez looked pretty comfortable on the front foot here TBH, despite his rep. Since an old Barrera (or any MAB, to be frank) was hardly Ray Leonard when it came to lateral movement, Marquez could walk him down at his own pace.

    While doing that, he was trying to nail down Barrera's half-beat rhythm. He tried to take away his jab with counter rights, but Barrera was too quick for him. He then started to parry the jab and move off, but Barrera stuck more punches on it. What worked for him, was the tried and tested method of just jabbing with the jabber. He counter-jabbed Barrera and started to win rounds. That timing spilled over into other areas and let him set up that big right which had MAB hurt in the seventh. The punch which changed the dynamic of the fight.

    Obviously the seventh was mental, but the eighth was much more like what you'd expect from these two. It wasn't a tactical match-up, it was a grim war where either man coulda took it.

    That was almost the story of the fight from there. Well, until Marquez got back in control. Very fun to watch.
     
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  4. Jel

    Jel Reserving the right to be inconsistent Full Member

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    George, I scored this very recently.

    As you can see, I scored round 7 10-8 Marquez and disregarded the knockdown on the basis of the follow up foul that meant a point deduction for Barrera.
     
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  5. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

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    I think it's really understated about how pivotal that KD call was. Should I have ruled it a 10-8 round, which it definitely could have been, then I'd have had it 116-111 as well.
     
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  6. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

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    Juan Manuel Marquez vs Joel Casamayor

    Carrying on with the Marquez theme.

    Marquez-Casamayor
    9 : 10*
    10 : 9
    9 : 10
    9 : 10
    9 : 10 (46/49)
    9 : 10
    10 : 9
    10 : 9
    10 : 9
    10 : 9 (95/95)
    Marquez TKO11

    Close early before JMM took over. He got hit with the straight left often early, but started to parry it ala Pacquiao, and learnt to feed the right through the centre. He also started to lead, rather than Casamayor being the aggressor. It worked well for him, since he could cover ground quick with his straight right and would draw momentarily leads from Casamayor to get him in punching position. Brilliant showing of ring IQ and adjustment.

    Awesome accuracy to get the stoppage too.
     
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  7. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

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    Juan Manuel Marquez vs Manny Pacquiao IV

    Last Marquez fight of the night. Always thought this one was a bit overrated (not bad, by any means). But of course, it's great. So why the hell not?

    Marquez-Pacquiao
    9 : 10
    9 : 10
    10 : 8
    10 : 9
    8 : 10 (46/47)
    KABOOM!

    LIke I said, overrated all-action fight IMO. Not to be completely negative about what's definitely the best win of the decade, but I think the action (as in clean exchanges, not knock-downs) in this is inferior to their first and second fights. Rounds four, five and six have great back and forth, as well as several switches in momentum, but I just don't enjoy watching it as much as I do, say, Marquez-Diaz I or Morales-Pacquiao I.

    Definitely interesting to see just how bulky Marquez was though. Nowhere near as quick, or sharp, but he was very strong, tough and hit like a Mack Truck. The difference in skill between this Pacquiao and the one who drew with Marquez eight years beforehand is ridiculous. It's hard to believe they're the same fighter. I actually think Pac's skill level is why this one isn't as good as the first two.

    Brutal KO though, great sixth round. Hard to top it.
     
  8. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

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    After watching the Yuh v Blanco fight today, I must admit that I was intrigued with Blanco's style so I checked around on the tube and saw the Dave McAuley fights were available. Here is the first fight between the champ Dave McAuley and Rodolfo Blanco.

    Round 1: 10-9 McAuley
    Round 2: 10-7 Blanco (scores 2 knockdowns)
    Round 3: 10-8 Blanco (scores a knockdown)
    Round 4: 10-10 Even
    Round 5: 10-9 McAuley
    Round 6: 10-9 McAuley
    Round 7: 10-9 McAuley
    Round 8: 10-10 Even
    Round 9: 10-8 McAuley (scores a knockdown)
    Round 10: 10-9 Blanco
    Round 11: 10-8 Blanco (scores a knockdown)
    Round 12: 10-10 Even

    Total: 114-112 Blanco (actual scores: 117-113, 113-111 and 115-110 all for McAuley)

    Great fight but needless to say, I was stunned by these scores. I was a big fan of McAuley's but that doesn't enter into scoring a fight. I call them the way i see them. I see Flea Man also scored this fight and had it 112-111 for Blanco. Maybe the Belfast crowd was that intimidating.
     
  9. Jel

    Jel Reserving the right to be inconsistent Full Member

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    Mike McCallum v Steve Collins

    A consumate performance from a quality fighter against a game and durable challenger. McCallum won this comfortably on the cards (I had it slightly closer than the official scores) and there was no doubt about the decision but Collins fought better from round 6 on to make it more competitive and at least get the partisan Boston crowd going a bit.

    McCallum really didn't have any soft touches during his middleweight reign - winning the title against Herol Graham, successfully defending it against Michael Watson, Steve Collins and former conqueror Sumbu Kalambay and then attempting to unify against James Toney. Quality opposition for a classy fighter.

    1 10-9
    2 10-9
    3 10-9
    4 10-10
    5 10-9
    6 9-10
    7 10-9
    8 9-10 (close)
    9 10-9
    10 10-10
    11 10-9
    12 9-10

    McCallum 117-113 Collins
     
  10. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Watched a couple of the Korean big boys today. Saw bits and pieces over the years and read diligently on them so I had a mental picture of how they fought. But here we go.

    Chong Pal Park v Fully Obel I

    This was a 10 rounder between 2 of the WBA's favorite sons. And by that I mean South Korea and Venezuela. Obel had already been pushed into a title fight with Marvin Hagler and was on his way to a rematch by WBA edict. Something Hagler didn't take too kindly too and took it out on Obel's face and body. Anyways, Obel dropped Park in the first round, Park took a share of the 2nd and all others to Obel before it was stopped in the 8th with Park down again and spent. Obel showed a very sharp jab and got braver as the fight continued. Although Park did try to time Obel's jab with an overhand right, his style was swing from the fences and hope to catch Obel with a haymaker. My score through 7 rounds was 70-63 for Obel.

    In Chul Baek v Christophe Tiozzo

    Again, remarkable on the lack of talent by the Korean. Anything above featherweight really is not their forte. It almost appeared to be a badge of honor not to duck anything coming Baek's way. At one point in the 4th Tiozzo caught Baek with an overhand right, then repeated it, then repeated it. This is a sucker punch and there was absolutely no defense for it. Tiozzo dropped Baek in the 2nd and 3rd and treated him rudely until it was stopped in the 6th. My score and the score of the 3 judges were the same. All of us had it 50-43 through 5 rounds. Very disappointing to see the same game plan. Swing from the fences and hope to catch the opponent with a haymaker. Baek and Park could bang, which obviously was where any success came from. But these two were lucky there was a WBA and a newly created super-middleweight division. Because no one would ever have heard about them outside their local towns back in the day.
     
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  11. Jel

    Jel Reserving the right to be inconsistent Full Member

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    Mike McCallum v Herol Graham

    Nasty fight to score and not the most aesthetically pleasing to watch either. This had me checking and double checking my scoring each round. There's no doubt that Graham's movement, erratic output and countering was a puzzle for McCallum. But did McCallum deserve the win? Yeah, I think he did.

    Mike definitely had trouble with Herol's style, particularly in the first half of the fight and he never fully solved it - Graham deserves credit for disturbing McCallum's natural rhythm. But McCallum didn't need to solve Graham's style completely, he just needed to pick up enough rounds and to his credit, he made the necessary adjustments over the second half to edge his way in front. He had the more consistent output and landed the more telling blows in my view. Graham also didn't help himself by losing a point for throwing McCallum and thankfully the bogus knockdown against Mike wasn't counted by the judges either.

    Not a great fight to watch but absorbing nonetheless from a scoring point of view.

    1 9-10
    (Graham controlled the distance well for most of the round, although got tagged a couple of times at the end)
    2 9-10 (close)
    3 10-9
    (McCallum starting to find Graham with more regularity)
    4 9-10
    (another close one and tricky to score)
    5 10-10
    (BS knockdown call from the ref - McCallum clearly slipped on water that was left in the corner. Graham warned for throwing McCallum)
    6 10-9
    (close again. McCallum did the better work overall although Graham got in a couple of good straight lefts. I have Graham by 1 point at halfway point but without much confidence)
    7 10-9
    8 9-9
    (a Graham round in terms of the action but a docked point for throwing McCallum again cost him the round outright)
    9 10-9
    (close. I feel McCallum edged it with the better inside work and more consistent output but Graham definitely had his moments too - this is the fight in microcosm)
    10 9-10
    (these rounds are being decided on fine margins. Graham's slick countering won him this round)
    11 10-9
    (McCallum landed the more telling punches)
    12 10-9
    (scrappy last round but McCallum did the better work overall)

    McCallum 115-113 Graham
     
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  12. Jel

    Jel Reserving the right to be inconsistent Full Member

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    Reggie Johnson v Steve Collins

    Somewhat similar to the McCallum-Graham fight in that the winner had a slow start before turning things his way in the second half. Johnson coasted the last couple of rounds which kept the scores close but he won the fight between the 6th and 10th rounds, particularly in 8, 9 and 10 where he started to give Collins a bit of a pasting but credit to the Irishman who kept coming forward and ended the fight well.

    1 10-9 (good opener from Reggie)
    2 9-10 (Collins' aggession won him the round)
    3 9-10
    (another good round from Collins - mixing up his attacks well to the head and body)
    4 9-10 (close)
    5 9-9
    (better round from Johnson but both men are deducted a point for illegal blows after warnings in the previous couple of rounds)
    6 10-9
    (close again but Johnson starting to time his counters better to Collins' attacks. Collins needs to start jabbing before he rushes in)
    7 10-9
    (damn, why do I keep choosing to watch fights like this?! Strong start to the round from Collins before Reggie came back over the second half amd just edged it)
    8 10-9
    (good round from Johnson, who moves ahead on my card for the first time)
    9 10-9
    (similar to the 7th in that Collins seemed to be doing well before Johnson started to take over. That's four in a row for Johnson and he is starting to move into a clear lead now)
    10 10-9
    (this is turning into a dominant performance from Johnson. Collins is looking ragged now)
    11 10-10
    12 9-10 (Collins takes it as Johnson coasts)

    Johnson 115-113 Collins
     
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  13. Jel

    Jel Reserving the right to be inconsistent Full Member

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    Jorge Castro v John David Jackson

    Ring's FOTY for 1994, this was a famous turnaround and a spectacular come-from-behind KO that despite my scoring was more competive than I remembered.

    Jackson really started to dominate around the 6th and by the 7th, Castro face was a mess. The ref theoretically could have stopped it at the point Castro backed into the ropes in the 9th, but thankfully he didn't and Castro scored as unlikely a KO as you'll ever see.

    1 9-10 (close)
    2 9-10
    3 9-10
    4 9-10 (close, cracking round)
    5 9-10
    6 10-9
    7 9-10
    8 9-10
    (73-79)
    9 Castro TKO Jackson
     
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  14. Jel

    Jel Reserving the right to be inconsistent Full Member

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    Julian Jackson v Herol Graham

    "Oh no! That's what we were worried about!". Or 'Don't put your hands down by your sides when you're only seconds away from the fight being stopped in your favour against the most devastating puncher p4p in boxing'.

    What a puncher that guy was.

    1 9-10
    2 9-10
    3 9-10
    (27-30)
    4 Jackson KO Graham
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2020 at 1:00 AM
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  15. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Jel, this was my score when I viewed it awhile back. A few odd differences but the same score in the end.

    Round 1: 10-9 Graham
    Round 2: 10-9 Graham
    Round 3: 10-9 McCallum
    Round 4: 10-9 Graham
    Round 5: 10-8 Graham - The ref scored that as a knockdown. I don't agree, I think it was a slip but it was scored as such.
    Round 6: 10-10 Even
    Round 7: 10-9 McCallum
    Round 8: 10-9 McCallum - I scored it even but one point deducted from Graham makes it 10-9.
    Round 9: 10-9 McCallum
    Round 10: 10-9 McCallum
    Round 11: 10-9 McCallum
    Round 12: 10-9 McCallum

    115-113 McCallum - A tough fight to score, but it was the latter rounds that won it for McCallum on my card. They were both tiring, especially in the 11th and 12th, but McCallum's punches just had that much more pop to them.
     
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