the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Luf, I just checked out the Tszyu v Phillips fight. Run that past me again on the excuse from the Tszyu camp. Anemia and issues with the promotion (or was it promoter?)? Tszyu was one of my favorites back in the day - really wanted to see him against ODLH - but I really think they should have worked on defense against the right hand.

 

Tszyu was anemic, had trouble making the weight, & was by all accounts, not anywhere near as fit as he gets these days. Johnny Lewis (Tszyu's trainer) was going to walk if Tszyu won that fight, he was so pissed off with Tszyu's preparation.

This is an epic bump BTW lol.

 

Was this a good fight, sal? Saw it in my recommendations and didn't bother with it, but after seeing Shomo vs Stable, I'm interested.

 

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It was interesting, and a good clash of styles, rather than a truly great fight. Somewhat difficult to score, which is always an interesting challenge.

 

Gene Fullmer vs Florentino Fernandez

Watching some of the welters from the TV era, and I seem to remember thinking that this was absolutely brilliant. I'm sure @scartissue would be interested in watching this one. Linked at bottom.

I've read some found it contentious, so I figured I'd score it.

Fullmer - Fernandez
9 : 10
9 : 10
10 : 9
10 : 9
9 : 10 (47/48)
9 : 10
10 : 9*
10 : 9
10 : 9
10 : 9 (96/94)
9 : 10
10 : 9
10 : 9
9 : 10
9 : 10 (143/142)

I've heard before that the fourteenth round of this one was supposed to be great. It lived up to expectations. I suspect it'd have won Pat's round thread, last year. Highlight of a great fight IMO. Lots of closely contested, scrappy rounds here. I felt that most of the time, the fighter who's back was to the ropes was losing. These two were inhumanly strong and well conditioned, and Fernandez hit like a mule. Fullmer's chin was absolutely granite. No question.

 

George, was this the bout where Fullmer actually broke his arm late into the fight or a bone in the arm?

 

Yeah, he injured himself.

 

I'll check this one out later today. Checked out the first round already - wish there was sound, I do enjoy that 'thump' when watching a fight. For now, I checked out something else this morning, which will follow.

 

Jimmy Carter v Art Aragon II - world lightweight title

Round 1: Aragon
Round 2: Aragon
Round 3: Aragon
Round 4: Carter
Round 5: Carter
Round 6: Carter (scores a knockdown)
Round 7: Aragon
Round 8: Even
Round 9: Carter
Round 10: Carter
Round 11: Even
Round 12: Carter
Round 13: Carter
Round 14: Carter
Round 15: Carter (apparently scored a knockdown) ?

Actual scores - 88-77, 88-77 and 88 1/2 - 76 1/2

First of all, a good, hard fight between an actual world champ and his top contender. Aragon got off to a good start and the fight was competitive until it got into the real championship rounds of 11-15. That was Carter's wheelhouse. He was an attrition fighter that was really made for 15 rounders like Arguello, Pintor and Saldivar. That last third, they were holy terrors.

Secondly, I need to mention that although the film I watched wasn't bad at all, I did notice here and there some rounds of the film were shaved a bit. Nothing major, about 10 seconds here and there. But the 15th round was annoying because apparently Carter dropped Aragon somewhere in the first 2 minutes, but they only have the last minute filmed here. I found a different highlight vid of the fight and again show only the last minute of the 15th. Again, annoying.

Lastly, the scoring. This appears to be what was once known as the Australian 11 point system, which California adopted in the 50s. Clearly, by the officials scores, they were all on the same page. The 11 point system divides 11 points, so a winner of a round wins the round by a score of 6-5. If its even it is 5 1/2 - 5 1/2. I can only assume if there is a knockdown that the round would be divided 7-4. Also, this would be the case if one fighter batters the other. If that is the case - I looked long and hard at rounds 13 and 14 - Carter did hurt and give Art a bit of a going over primarily in the 13th. If this is the case with the points the way we would have a 10-8 round, then my score would have been 88-77 at the end of 15. Again, a good, hard fight.

 

George, well, here it is, for what its worth. And I think that everyone will see this differently. I think I would too if I rewatch it.

Gene Fullmer v Florentino Fernandez

Round 1: 10-9 FF
Round 2: 10-9 Fullmer
Round 3: 10-9 Fullmer
Round 4: 10-9 Fullmer
Round 5: 10-10 Even
Round 6: 10-9 Fullmer
Round 7: 10-9 FF
Round 8: 10-9 Fullmer
Round 9: 10-9 Fullmer
Round 10: 10-9 Fullmer
Round 11: 10-9 Fullmer
Round 12: 10-9 Fullmer
Round 13: 10-9 FF
Round 14: 10-9 FF
Round 15: 10-9 FF

Total: 145-141 Fullmer (actual scores: 145-142, 148-140 both for Fullmer and 145-143 for Fernandez)

Man, Fullmer made an art of fighting crude and ugly...but effective. Floro wanted to get those bombs of his off but Fullmer would just muscle him to the ropes where he would negate anything Floro could do while he took his swipes at the Cuban's head and body. It made for a tough fight on the judge because you really have to watch who is actually being the most effective in there.

 

Fight 2: Ioka vs Rodriguez

1:10-8
2:10-9
3:10-9
4:10-9
5:10-9
6:ko
7:
8:
9:
10:
11:
12:

Ioka has now moved up to LFLW and you can see his approach is a bit different now. He is much more fleet of foot, quick snappy combos, ambush attacks.

I mean Ioka doesn't have the best of defences, but offensively he looks amazing at every range.

That being said his opposition does leave a bit to be desired and was coming off a loss.

 

Lupe Pintor vs Carlos Zarate

Due a rewatch and a rescore. I remember having it by two points for Pintor. Will see what he get a couple years later.

Absolutely nothing in the first, although I feel like Pintor threw three of the five punches. While I scored it even, if I had to, I'd give it Lupe. Slow second, but nothing on the abysmal first. They actually threw punches, and I feel Pintor's were more effective and there were more of them. Snapping jab and the order straight right. Pintor getting the better of it upclose, but Zarate's jab is authoritive and powerful. A brutal 2-3 knocks Pintor on his ass in the forth, sealing what was already a clear Zarate round. Zarate landing massive shots in the fifth, brilliant straight rights and left hooks.

Pintor out-working Zarate in the sixth. Carlos showing a good defence, but not throwing enough for my liking. Same again in the seventh, Pintor out-working him. Brilliant stuff from both in the eighth, but it's Zarate's lack of output which is costing him these rounds. When he lets his hands go, he's landing. Zarate throwing some bigger shots on the inside now, but he wasn't landing them clean as Pintor rolled with them or blocked them. Pintor out-worked him again, although I did give Zarate the ninth due to the effect his shots had. Pintor stayed at range and didn't throw as much as he normally would. In the tenth, Pintor went right back out there and tucked up on the inside, throwing those beautiful short shots inbetween Zarate's guard, and one of them clearly hurt Zarate as he back off on wobbly legs. Pintor followed through and threw an onslaught for the remainder of the round. Clearest round since the forth.

Pintor landing that exact same counter left straight which hurt Zarate in the tenth again in the eleventh. It didn't quite have the same affect, but he did stun Zarate again and it spurred him on. Clear round for Pintor, again. Zarate definitely took the twelfth on mine, as it was a war of attrition on the inside and his bigger punches caught my eye more. Pintor did good work in this one though. Pintor throwing, Zarate not so much. Thirteen was a Pintor round. Pintor took the fourteenth as well on my card, as he out-worked Zarate again but he also seemed to stun him with a cross-counter and finally worked the body hard. Pintor's aggression carried over into the fifteenth, where he worked the body again, throwing some nasty shots. Zarate's cross-counter got in more here than in the previous rounds though.

Pintor - Zarate
10 : 10
10 : 9
9 : 10
8 : 10
9 : 10 (46/49)
10 : 9
10 : 9
10 : 9
9 : 10
10 : 9 (95/95)
10 : 9
9 : 10
10 : 9
10 : 9
10 : 9 (144/141)

Decent fight, not great but a great display of skills. Definitely an eye-opener from that perspective. Definitely not a robbery though. Zarate only has himself for this loss, he could've made things much easier and spitting his dummy out and going into a seven year retirement didn't help things.

I thought Zarate's lack of a workrate is undoubtedly what cost him this fight. If he threw another ten/fifteen punches a round, he'd have won it IMO. I actually think that there's more to meet the eye than with this fight. They used to be sparring partners and it really seemed like they struggled to get out of that mentality before the forth, and in the forth, Zarate ate a flush left uppercut from Pintor which he seemed startled by. I think that's what made him give to much respect to Pintor, because afterward he let him off the hook and never really pressed things again until the twelfth.

Pintor could have made this clearer too, he didn't throw any nasty body shots until the last two rounds. Why? At first I thought it was that he couldn't get in range, but he was in range for most of the fight, he just wasn't throwing them.

I maintain that Zarate is overrated, and Pintor deserves to be ranked above him.

 

Why is this fight not on the list of 100 Greatest Title Fights of All Time?

 

Which list?

 

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