the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

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Watching this due to IB's thread, and it's obvious notoriety.

Big first for Toney, excellent hooks, upstairs and down which really rocked Tiberi. Tiberi stepping it up in the second, winging hooks to the body and forcing Toney to the ropes. James defending well, shining when he lets his hands go, but it is ultimately out-worked. Nothing too dissimilar in the third, fourth and fifth. I'm liking how Tiberi is going about his attack, you can tell he trained in Philly. Toney had momentary succes, when he threw some massive bombs at Tiberi. Far from enough, though. The sixth was interesting, and it started with a split glove which gave Toney some extra time. After the rest, Toney was reinvigorated to a certain degree, and he really diced Tiberi's forehead and tucked that left hook underneath his ribs. Tiberi is still throwing more though. The lowblow deduction was a hard one to debate, it seemed warranted though. I have no qualms with it, and it was a tough call for the inexperienced referee.

The seventh was a little different from two through five. It was very close, and the feeling of who was in control was gone. Tiberi was stil throwing everything he had, but he had a little less than he did in the previous rounds and Toney was throwing more himself. I went with Tiberi, I thought he took it with the workrate again. Toney did better in the eighth, it was like the seventh, but opposite. Close couple of rounds. This fights getting really good. Embarrassinh ninth for Toney. Tiberi not only landed much more, they seemed more forceful too. Tiberi still out-hustling Toney, James is clearly looking for one shot and as we know, it never comes. Better in the eleventh, as he puts together twos and threes when Tiberi comes in. Far from perfect, but better. Tiberi reversing that in the twelfth, and thoroughly out-working Toney for the final time.

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10 : 9
9 : 10
9 : 10
9 : 10 (37/39)
9 : 10
10 : 8
9 : 10
10 : 9 (75/76)
9 : 10
9 : 10
10 : 9
9 : 10 (

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Not a fan of this decision, but my card turned out a little closer than I was expecting. Rounds seven and eight were the closest of the fight IMO. Rest of it wasn't too hard at all for me. I'm happy with how I had it, I don't like how the judges did though. I've seen worse, but consider a few things.

Tiberi was so unheralded, you couldn't even bet on the fight. The perception was that there was literally no way Tiberi could win, and yet when they . Another thing I don't like is that after the first McCallum and Sosa decisions, Toney's manager supposedly wrote to the commission that they weren't happy with their judges and they wanted an inspection. Dunno if that's got something to do with this fight, as I don't know when the report took place and/or if the judges for those fights were reprimanded, or whether the judges for this one were informed. But I think it's too big of a coincidence to just ignore.

Although, to throw Toney a bone. It's a shame he didn't get the rematch he wanted. I've often seen the myth pedalled that Toney wanted no part of a rematch, and that he was happy to take the win he got and run with it. Absolute bollocks. Toney wanted a rematch, the IBF and commission did, and Tiberi didn't. He wanted to retire. Methinks he knew his chances in a rematch would've been extremely poor, and that Toney would've been inshape and smoked him. But it didn't happen, so that's just conjecture.

I don't like the decision, but I did like the fight. It's very fun to watch, which is often overshadowed by the judges' scores.

 

Tiberi vs Doug DeWitt would've been gruesome and brutal and amazing. Tiberi shouldn't have retired man.

 

I watched a number of Kirkland Laing fights today including this one:

Kirkland Laing v Donovan Boucher (scheduled for 12 for the Commonwealth welterweight title)
(Scored on Britain's 10 - 9 1/2 point system)

Round 1: Even
Round 2: Laing
Round 3: Laing
Round 4: Boucher
Round 5: Boucher
Round 6: Boucher
Round 7: Even
Round 8: Boucher
Round 9: Boucher KOs Laing

Total: 79-78 Boucher

Kirkland Laing is one of the most unorthodox, unconventional fighters I've ever seen. I would like to think if he fought with more fundamentals his career would have gone so much further. But then again, that was his magic, wasn't it? Despite the result he did put up a tremendous fight for a 36 year old. But in the end, Boucher would not be denied as Laing appeared to be tiring. Crazy fight and a crazy one to score.

 

Watched two Lloyd Honeyghan fights today. This was Lloyd in his prime leading up to the Curry fight. After Curry I felt - I won't say a swan dive - he started to drop off on a slow trajectory. Sort of like Mike Rossman after the Galindez win (maybe a bad comparison, Rossman's was more pronounced). Anyways here we go:

Lloyd Honeyghan v Sylvester Mittee

I only read about this in Boxing News at the time but had been following both their careers. This was a big win in the UK for British, Commonwealth and European titles. Mittee had a good jab and a sharp punch whereas Honeyghan had the heavier punch and was very busy from the outset. A damn good fight where Mittee never stopped trying to get that right hand across. Honeyghan scored a couple of iffy knockdowns (but were legit to the letter of the law) in rounds 2 and 6 and I could only give Mittee a share of the 1st. The fight was stopped by the Doc in the 8th on a cut sustained by Mittee, who never stopped trying.

Lloyd Honeyghan v Horace Shufford

This was - I believe - a final eliminator for the title shot. I remember Shufford somehow as the WBC's #1 contender, but the commentator was amazed that he had held that position for 18 months, which I didn't know. This fight was May of '86, so the WBC had elevated him as their top man in December of '84 if my math is correct. More amazing still, was the fact that he hadn't fought since March of '84. So they elevated him by way of inactivity. In their corrupt minds I guess they looked at that as he hadn't lost. His best win was over Efren Olivo and if you said, "Who?", your reaction would be correct.

Regarding the fight, Honeyghan's hustle and bustle was evident once again. Shufford was no puncher but he did catch Lloyd with quality shots on the counter. Just not enough to overcome anything coming his way. I gave him a share of rounds 3 and 7, which might be generous, but Lloyd scored knockdowns in rounds 4 and 8. The last one was the final as the ref stopped the fight.

 

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Felt like watching some prime Middleweight/Super-Middleweight Toney. So I figured why not start with his classic come-from-behind KO over an all-time great talent.

It was a good opener, Toney getting off quicker and showing the prolificacy of his body work. All Nunn in the second. Good, short flurries. He's out-working Toney. Some nice pivots thrown in there too. Toney admiring his work too much. Toney standing in the pocket and ripening the body, being flat-footed is giving him the advantage in exchanges. Toney posturing, Nunn punching. Fourth goes to Nunn. Close fifty, I went with Nunn's short flurries over Toney's sporadic success to the body.

Nunn still out-working Toney IMO, and his defence and length is making Toney really have to work to land little. Toney's shots are sneaking in under the elbows; to the body and about the ribs, but he didn't win the sixth for me. Passive seventh, Nunn throwing more again, Toney coulda took it. Good eighth for Toney, using and landing his left hook with regularity. More bodywork, too. Great ninth round. Toney really put the pressure on Nunn, who seemed to wake up in the final minute, but it wasn't enough. Great cross-counters from Toney. Very close tenth, Toney seemed to take too much off and looked visibly tired. Still, he landed bigger shots and countered well. Could've gone either way, gun to my head, Nunn based on consistency.

A pair of brutal knock-downs seals this one for JT.

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10 : 9
9 : 10
10 : 9
9 : 10
9 : 10 (47/48)
9 : 10
9 : 10
10 : 9
10 : 9
9 : 10 (

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This was a really good fight. I didn't buy the narrative that Toney was wildly behind on points and needed the KO the first two times I watched it, and I don't this time. It's something I can't get behind. The momentum was all Toney's headed into the eleventh. Not to mention that Toney told his trainer that he'd get him this round. Then he did brutally.

Nunn looked pretty damn good through those mid rounds as well. That snake-like, flicker jab with the fleet footwork and quick combos was seriously impressive.

Great, great win.

 

Joe Louis - Ezzard Charles

Round 1 - 9-10
Round 2 - 10-9
Round 3 - 9-10*
Louis having the stronger last minute landing the 2 best punches with a straight right - jab but I give it to Charles based on his work in the 1st 2 minutes, close round.
Round 4 - 10-9
Round 5 - 9-10
Charles letting his hands go more and his defence shining through here, has a better grasp on the timing of Louis' jab.
First clear Charles round
Round 6 - 9-10
Round 7 - 9-10
Round 8 - 10-9
Round 9 - 9-10
Round 10 - 10-9
Round 11 - 10-9
Round 12 - 9-10
Round 13 - 9-10
Round 14 - 9-10
Round 15 - 9-10

10 rounds to 5 for a Charles decision.

 

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Watching a few more from Toney tonight. I always feel like I've come down a little hard on these fights. Never found it as great as others, and I thought the rematches were poor. I always remember having Toney winning wide in both of their first two fights.

Very close first, I edged it to McCallum who's jab seemed to redden Toney's face. It was a fast pace jab affair with good combos sprinkled throughout. Great second from Toney, who landed cross-counters often and showed that sweet double left hook. Good call from Smoger on the slip. Toney was putting together some good combos in the third, using that double hook to the head and body well. Great forth round. McCallum couldn't land his jab consistently due to Toney's head-movement at range, and he ate some huge cross-counters trying to creep closer to get them off. One looked like it really hurt McCallum, but McCallum came back in full force with huge shots of his own. Close, but Toney's heavier arsenal and better defence overtook McCallum's jab and comeback. Good uppercut use from Toney too. Quite fifth compared to the fourth, McCallum jabbing well and staying out if danger. Toney's head-movement isn't winning him rounds. Toney did well with his counter jab and cross in the sixth, then McCallum landed a big left hook. He woke Toney the **** up with it, and took four huge crosses for his trouble. Good bodywork and smart movement from McCallum, but I felt Toney's heavier artillery took a close one. I have Toney with a 4-2 lead after six.

Very good round for McCallum in the seventh. Good bodywork and jab from McCallum, he used some neat tricks that come with experience and Toney coasted. It seemed like both wanted a breather, but McCallum knew how to take a breather and still win the round. Toney taking the eighth with room to spare IMO. Very sharp cross-counters again - his bread and butter here, it seems - as well as that tidy double hook. McCallum's offense is clearly diminishing with fatigue at this point. Great ninth for McCallum, who's body attack really paid dividends and had Toney extremely inactive until right at the end where he made it closer with a series of big ass left hooks. Toney landed a huge barrage of clean shots early in the tenth, it sealed it for me but McCallum landed some nice shots of his own. It was a damn good round. The eleventh was close, and hard to score. McCallum looked to be doing the same things be did in the seventh; coasting and winning, but Toney threw a spanner in the works with some horrific looking wingers, all of which landed. I give it him, I know he was trying to steal it with that late flurry. Well, it worked. The twelfth was a dominant Toney round, but I don't think he McCallum in the kind of trouble which warrants a two point round. McCallum was still able to defend Toney's onslaught, and after throwing six heavy shots, James was as spent as Mike. Clear Toney round, but not by so much so that he deserved that extra point, as pivotal as it turned out to be.

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9 : 10
10 : 9
10 : 9
10 : 9 (39/37)
9 : 10
10 : 9
9 : 10
10 : 9 (77/75)
9 : 10
10 : 9
10 : 9
10 : 9 (

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I don't like the decision. I went in with an open mind, and came out with the same bold, orange digits. Toney's cleaner shots should've won this one IMO. Although I have to say, it was a much better fight than I've been giving it credit for. Work of art here from both.

I really like Hagler's commentary. He's like Roy Keane. He's got the experience and know-how, and the bollocks to say exactly what's happening without any sugarcoating. Watson was better, though.

 

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Last one of the night, it's getting late. This should be one of the fights in which Toney looks ****ing spectacular. You literally couldn't ask for a better fighter for him to shine against.

He didn't.

This was a very flat and uninspired performance from both. I'm quite disappointed. Toney didn't create openings, sleepwalked on offense, looked slower and clearly didn't throw as much as he did vs McCallum or Nunn. He just wasn't that impressive. He picked apart a guy who was made for Toney to pick apart. Yet Kalambay looked much, much better in doing exactly, vs DeWitt. It's not worthy any criticism, since he didn't lose a second if the fight and truth be told, it did seem like he could ramp it up another gear if he needed to, but he still didn't impress the way he should've done vs this kinda guy.

DeWitt here fought with no emotion. That's not the DeWitt I've seen and loved watching. He may have tended to warm up in the first couple, but here all he did was walk forwards and backwards, gawk and stare. Oh, and eat punches. It was an embarrassming display. Y'know in one round he threw FIVE punches? In 180 seconds, he could only manage five punches.

No need for a scorecard, Toney won every round with no argument for another card IMO. Very, very clear cut.

 

Do another one George! Do another one! One more! One more! One more!

 

It ended up being DeWitt's final fight so maybe the spark had gone and he knew it.

 

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I love Williams. He's definitely my favourite light-heavyweight of that era, and probably my favourite light-heavyweight from then up until Julio Cesar Gonzlalez, and Callum Johnson later on. I remember this one being a great in-fight.

Williams really forcing the fight early, good work from him on the inside. His round, although Toney's crisp punches is immediately apparent. Toney getting crowded in the corner, but he put some beautiful combos together in there and his hooks to the body really took it for me. Williams stepping in with the jab, working a nice, tight, Jack Johnson uppercut. Toney throwing some brutal body shots in the last twenty seconds or so, but not enough to take the round, IMO. Toney making space better in the forth, finding the range and doubling up on hooker-cuts to the body and head. It was really close, Williams was throwing a lot and not letting up. Williams landing some chopping shots, getting the better of the action in the fifth. Toney really working well at mid-range when he gets it there, and he nails Williams with a ****ing great right. Williams is still out-working him, but still getting hit with the cleaner shots. I'll take a clean shots over volume.

The seventh was Toney's sorta breakthrough round, IMO. He found his space, threaded his rights down the centerline, jabbed to the body and ultimately lit Williams up. Yeah, he definitely separated himself in the seventh, and he did it again in the eighth. I love how minimalistic Toney's feet are, he just takes the smallest of steps to find that perfect range. Literally sets himself up by moving inches at most, maybe less. He lost a point for extra curricular activities, though. Same again in nine and ten, just slicing Williams up. Honestly, these rights are brutal. I'm surprised Williams took so many before falling. And what a knockout it was when it came. Absolutely devastating finish.

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9 : 10
10 : 9
9 : 10
10 : 9 (38/38)
9 : 10
10 : 9
10 : 9
9 : 9 (76/75)
10 : 9
10 : 9
10 : 9 (

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Definitely one of Toney's best performances and a very entertaining fight to boot. If you haven't seen, you should really fix that. Williams wasn't a spring chicken, but I don't think he was very far past his best either. It's a very good win, and I think the dominance of Toney late in the fight, combined with the brutal KO contributed to a quicker downfall of Williams. Then the Sosa fights ruined the rest of him.

 

George, I watched this one not too long ago. Here's how I had it:

Definitely one of my favourite Toney performances.

 

Rodrigo Valdez v Bennie Briscoe 2

This was a war. Briscoe started fast and forced the pace but Valdez responded in kind and the two just went hell for leather. Loved it.

1 10-9
(Cracking opener - Valdez definitely hurts Bennie but they both go all out)
2 9-10
(close. another superb action round. Briscoe just about edged it - great exchanges)
3 9-10
(Valdez tries to stick and move for a bit before Briscoe backs him up to the ropes and unloads)
4 10-9
(they're both detonating bombs in there!)
5 10-9
(Valdez throwing hard shots with good accuracy)
6 10-9
(58-56)
7 Valdez TKO Briscoe
(Briscoe was bossing the action for most of the round and then out of nowhere Valdez drops another huge bomb and flattens him for the only KO defeat of his 95 fight career. Stunning end to a great fight)

 

For the great war this was, it's one of the mostly grossly underrated fights of all time. I love this match as well.

 

Seems like when he stayed in his lane (by which I mean not stepping up against someone who totally outclassed him), Paez was always in close, competitive and entertaining scraps.

He and Dorsey could fight 1,000 rounds and it would be within one of 500-500.