the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Seems like when he stayed in his lane (by which I mean not stepping up against someone who totally outclassed him), Paez was always in close, competitive and entertaining scraps.

He and Dorsey could fight 1,000 rounds and it would be within one of 500-500.

 

I was surprised that The Ring had it in its 100 greatest title fights of all time listing from back in the 90s as I'd never otherwise heard of it being a great fight, only a great KO (which it was). But the fight itself was spectacular, although Valdez started to control things from about the 4th round.

 

James Toney vs Montell Griffin I & II

I know I've seen one of these two before, but I don't remember much about it other than the vague feeling that Toney was a little hard done by. I'll group the cards together, because I can't really be arsed.

Toney and Kallen had a bad falling out? Damn, I never knew that. I thought their relationship was as solid as it could get. Toney struggled with the weight at 175 as well, wtf

Toney - Griffin I
9 : 10
9 : 10
10 : 8*
9 : 10 (37/38)
9 : 10
10 : 9
8 : 10*
9 : 10 (73/77)
10 : 9
9 : 10
10 : 9
10 : 9 (112/114)

Weird occurrence in the third. Toney landed a brilliant straight right, which had Griffin all over the gaff. He was spinning and dancing and put a glove on the floor, clear as day. After the ref didn't intervene, Toney rushed at him blindly and missed a huge hook causing him to fall over. The ref ruled that a slip and let it carry on. Weird ****. I think Toney deserved a two point round, so that's what he got off me. Toney shoulda gone down in the seventh, clearly. If those ropes weren't there, he'd have been given a count so I gave it a 10-8, Lederman agreed with me.

Toney - Griffin II
10 : 9
9 : 10
10 : 9
10 : 9 (39/37)
10 : 9
9 : 10
10 : 9
10 : 9 (78/74)
10 : 9
9 : 10
9 : 10
9 : 10 (115/113)

Lots of close rounds in these two fights. Particularly eight and ten in the first fight, which would've been the difference between a loss, draw or win for Toney had he won one, none or both of those rounds. In the rematch, I thought there were less close rounds but the HBO commentary team didn't agree with me on too many of them, so who knows. The later rounds being the main culprits.

Griffin fought well in both, although I didn't think he actually deserved the rematch. He fought well, using some real Futch moves. Keeping his lead-foot outside of Toney's while staying in closed-stance exhange is a rare tactic and it worked well. Especially since it meant Toney's balance was all-over the place and his defence wasn't as valuable as it would be. He also was very disciplined with his jab-jab-hook strategy. He didn't let himself get dragged into the war which Toney stated he wanted.

They weren't great fights, but they weren't unwatchable. If you're inclined to try and score a couple of close, controversial decisions, these'd be what you're looking for.

 

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Since watching Valdez-Briscoe 2, I've been fantasizing about a Toney-Briscoe clash at 160. One guy coming forward and putting intelligent pressure on all the time versus another who would look to counter off the back foot and likely against the ropes - I think it would have been great. Plus you have the added oddity of both fighters wearing the Star of David on their trunks when neither was Jewish (in honour of their Jewish managers).

Toney was a real throwback fighter - he just didn't have Bennie's discipline. I don't think there'd be much between them. I know we did a thread on that a while back but I might be leaning more towards Bennie outworking Toney over 15 now.

 

Yeah, Toney definitely was a throwback fighter. The fearlessness and activity, the air of experience even while young and having started boxing late, the willingness to keep moving up, the innate toughness. Even littler things, like not watching tapes because it'd help him be adaptable and they (Toney/Miller) knew their opponents would adapt, or being perfectly relaxed.

In regards to Briscoe vs Toney, I think Toney beats him up. I don't buy that it was just bad luck that Briscoe lost a lot. He was very inconsistent, even more so than Toney, but also didn't have anywhere near the same ceiling as James. If you take Briscoe from the Mundine fight vs Toney from the first McCallum fight, I think Toney smashes him.

Briscoe's pressure was steady, but it was repetitive and on a metronome-type tick. I cannot see Toney not clocking that rhythm and countering it constantly. Briscoe also doesn't fight at the distance which would trouble Toney IMO, he often fought around mid-range like Barkley did, and so Toney would be able to hammer him on the way in. I don't think a stoppage is out of the question, but I wouldn't give Toney great odds for that. Briscoe's workrate could give Toney issues granted, since he didn't like fighting three minutes a round. But ultimately, I think it'd be the great performance and fight which Toney didn't have, but probably should've at 160.

Although I don't buy that Toney thrashes all pressure fighters. Somebody like Fullmer or Vito could give him issues with their unorthodoxy, propensity to fight really, really close and high workrate. I'd still pick Toney vs Vito, but Fullmer could definitely win.

 

James Toney vs Vasilly Jirov

You can't binge Toney and leave this one off. I left it for last, because it's always been my favourite Toney fight. It's a great, great fight. Ah, @Mario040481, you're a top man. HD, HBO and Emmanuel Steward?? That's what we ****in like.

Excellent first round for Toney, who's defence completely nullified Jirov's workrate. Jirov's workrate was collosal, took the second with it. 102 punches! At crusierweight! Jirov throws a lot - maybe too much - but he's getting walked onto more, and he isn't landing much. Toney is. Vicious lowblow in the third from Jirov too. Toney showing great timing with the uppercut in the forth. Toney really whipping the uppercut, but taking it to the body. Close round. Toney landing the better punches still, but Jirov still out-working him. Very close round. Four to six for Toney through the first half.

Great seventh for Toney, constant counters and he built fast, fluid combinations off them. Nasty low blow from Jirov to begin the eighth, costs him a point. Other than the deduction, it was a pretty good for Jirov. Toney's tiring, but he's still throwing enough to where his cleaner, heavier punches are having the greater effect. Toney strung together a good six punches which clearly hurt Jirov. Eleven was close, Jirob really did out-work Toney, but he got hit clean so often. I gave it to Jirob in the end, but it was very close. The twelfth round was absolutely brilliant. One of the very best finishing rounds I can remember, Pat shoulda included it.

Toney - Jirov
10 : 9
9 : 10
10 : 9
10 : 9 (39/37)
10 : 9
9 : 10
10 : 9
9 : 9 (77/74)
10 : 9
10 : 9
9 : 10
10 : 8 (116/110)

Goddamn, this is such a good fight. I really hope @William Walker has seen this, as I recall you saying you haven't seen many modern fights. I don't like Lederman's card. Very generous to Jirov. It was competitive sure, and I suppose there's rounds you can give to Jirov that I didn't (namely four and nine), but having it a draw? Nah, not for me. Especially not with the knockdown and the point deduction.

Like I said, I made this one my last Toney fight for now. I'm gonna watch a few Jirov fights now, though. For a guy with such willpower, amateur pedigree, all-round talent and an amazingly entertaining style, I haven't seen anywhere near as much of him as I'd like. I think that my come down to his ultimately uninspiring opposition and overall career. Not saying he had a bad career, but I think he could've really cemented himself as a great crusierweight with the right fights. He seems like one real pain in the ass for Jones.

 

Just watched what should be regarded as a classic. The second fight between Alan Minter and Kevin Finnegan. All I can say is Wow! The film is pristine, like it happened yesterday rather than 45 years ago. All 15 rounds are here. I thought something was missing but it was the round kid carrying around the wrong card for the next round (this is why chicks need to do this. If a mistake was made I wouldn't have noticed). Anyways, here we go in a very fast-paced 15 rounder under British scoring of 10 - 9 1/2 per round.

Alan Minter v Kevin Finnegan II (British middleweight title)

Round 1: Minter
Round 2: Minter
Round 3: Minter
Round 4: Even
Round 5: Minter
Round 6: Even
Round 7: Minter
Round 8: Minter
Round 9: Finnegan (it might be generous to Finnegan, but I gave him a 2 point round for his early battering)
Round 10: Minter
Round 11: Finnegan
Round 12: Finnegan
Round 13: Minter
Round 14: Finnegan
Round 15: Finnegan

Total: 147-146 Minter (actual score: Roland Dakin actually had it closer at 147 1/2 - 147 for Minter)

Can't say enough about this fight. By the time Finnegan realized his lead right was lethal to the southpaw Minter, Alan had already banked several rounds. Kevin was cut to pieces and Alan was hurt in rounds 9 and 15. About that 9th round. Finnegan really battered Minter that round but Minter was fighting back at the end of the round. It was a leap, but I felt Finnegan had a 2 pointer that round. Pure guts here, guys. They fought to the very last second. Highly recommend this. What a fight!

 

Out of all of the "recent" fighters, Toney is one of the ones I've watched the most. Still, I've probably only watched about ten of his fights, and that was an awfully long time ago. I believe I watched this one, but don't remember much about it. But if you say it's great George, then it is. It is on my list of fights rn, but being a late 90s fight i believe? and being in the 30s rn, it will be a long way off until I get to this one.

 

2003 this one so you'll be waiting even longer if you're watching fights chronologically from the 30s on!

 

That is a long time, and although I'll hate the wait, I'll also love it. It's not like I'm going to dread Armstrong, Louis, Robinson, Marciano, Ali, Duran, and Holyfield just cuz I can't watch Toney for who knows how long!

 

Yeah, it's great. Routinely compared to Gatti-Ward on the broadcast. I had it about 40 on my top 100.

 

Vasilly Jirov vs Julian Letterlough

Start with this one. Will probably watch one at heavy, and a couple at crusier.

Steady pressure in the first from Jirov, and his left to the body set up an onslaught of heavy shots at the end of the round. In the second, Letterlough is being put on the back-foot, something he definitely doesn't feel comfortable with. Brutal left hook from Letterlough has Jirob hurt, but Mr. KO wasn't a good enough finisher to live up to his nickname. Good action in the forth, plus ramblings from the commentary team about the state of crusierweights vs bigger heavyweights. Jirov throwing more.

Letterlough has landed ZERO jabs through four rounds

Letterlough throws some heavy hooks on the inside, but Jirov's just out-working him and landing some nasty, nasty body shots. Same again in the sixth. It's story of the fight, TBH. Same again in the seventh, but this time Jirov punctuated the round with a straight left, then a series of huge uppercuts which had Letterlough backing up an on the ropes. Letterlough supposedly landed THREE punches, to THIRTY-SIX. What the actual ****

Jirov - Letterlough
10 : 9
10 : 9
9 : 10
10 : 9 (39/37)
10 : 9
10 : 9
10 : 9 (69/64)
Jirov TKO8

There will likely never be a day, where I'm not a fan of Julian Letterlough. So while, yeah, this was a pretty decent fight, it was also quite sad, because Jirov beat the **** outta Letterlough.

I don't like how the commentators painted Jirov. Lampley especially liked to act as if the only thing Jirov was doing was going to the body. There were other neat little things Vasilly did too. His little half steps to get in range were textbook, and the right hook he used to get over Letterlough's left, as well as the way he built and set up combos. He's also one of those guys who was extremely smooth while transitioning from being stood squared-up to being up on his toes. One second he was there, another he wasn't. He kinda let that go to waste though, as he didn't really care about being twatted.

 

Sot Chitalada vs. Gabriel Bernal II (6/22/85)
bcccbbbbbccc
114-112 Bernal (Chitalada down in the first and eighth)

A winging left from the southpaw stance sent Chitalada down in the first minute. He actually seemed to be in control of things by the end of the round, but Bernal laid into him with some vicious shots after the KD so it's a 10-8 round. Rounds two and three saw Bernal land plenty of big shots, but Chitalada hung in there and gave it right back, two rounds I'm not particularly confident in giving him. Chitalada clearly liked to move, but he'd dance to a spot near the ropes and then just stand and trade with the slower Bernal. Meanwhile Bernal was constantly switching between southpaw and orthodox. Chitalada had a good round four jabbing and moving, and he was doing the same in the fifth until Bernal caught him with three consecutive left hooks in the corner. Round seven was the best of the fight, with Bernal fighting his way off the ropes twice in the span of a minute as the crowd went crazy. He silenced them with a big right towards the round's end.

Boxing orthodox in the eighth, Bernal caught Chitalada with a left hook-right hook combo, and Chitalada threw some shots in return before trying to hold on and falling to the canvas. It was ruled a knockdown. Bernal didn't get much of a chance to follow up, though, as the round ended at 2:35 (fight's in Thailand). So began a pattern. In the ninth I though Bernal took the round with an uppercut at 2:50, right on the bell. Chitalada looked to be in trouble in the tenth, but he won an infight and bulled Bernal to the ropes where he repeatedly caught him with left hooks. Bernal came back from that and was gaining momentum when the bell rang at 2:37. Rounds eleven and twelve were tough ones with a tired Chitalada managing to outland Bernal and the timekeeper getting his act together.

The decision was a majority decision draw. Lots of close rounds, but I thought that if anything I was generous to Chitalada when I had it 6-6 in rounds. And the third judge actually had it 116-112 for Chitalada, which means that if he scored both knockdown rounds 10-8 then those were the only two Bernal won on his card. Bernal was incredulous as they told him what happened, and he blew off Chitalada's hug, which was kind of funny. They'd fight again over a year later, but Chitalada was on the way up and Bernal, by then thirty years old, the way down. For this one, though, they had an Ali-Frazier kind of chemistry, producing a classic.

 

Deontay Wilder Vs Tyson Fury 1

Round 1: Tyson Fury 10-9 (Close)
Round 2: Deontay Wilder 10-9 (Close)
Round 3: Tyson Fury 10-9
Round 4: Tyson Fury 10-9 (Close)
Round 5: Tyson Fury 10-9
Round 6: Tyson Fury 10-9
Round 7: Tyson Fury 10-9
Round 8: Tyson Fury 10-9
Round 9: Deontay Wilder 10-8 KD
Round 10: Tyson Fury 10-9
Round 11: Tyson Fury 10-9
Round 12: Deontay Wilder 10-8 KD
Final Score 115-111 Tyson Fury
Very good fight I've seen the rematch a few times Wilder actually tried to use his jabs and left hooks to set up the right hand in this fight I was impressed with his speed he's clearly a lot more effective at 210ish then 235ish. Fury was incredibly slick as well and displayed incredible heart and defensive boxing is great fight showcase by em thought fury deserved the nod but it was a close fight if you gave the first and forth to Wilder were he damaged fury somewhat in a close round as well as the second it's a draw.

 

Juan Manuel Marquez v Julio Gervacio

I was looking for Gervacio fights because I liked his style and wanted to see more of him, when I found this. It's hard to believe how composed Marquez was here for someone having only his 16th fight. Had I watched this back when it occurred I would have been raving about this blue-chip prospect I just saw. Hard to believe it would take him another 7 years to win a world title after faltering in his first bid against Freddie Norwood (a bout I thought he won). Anyways, no need to run a card here. Marquez won every round on my card, dropping Gervacio in the 4th before finishing him off in the 8th. Again, a very poised performance for the young Marquez.