the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Georgie Benton v Allen Thomas

This was another good fight from the 60s out of MSG. Man, this is the kind of fight I love seeing where the fighters can stay in the pocket and pop away at each other. NY scoring on a rounds basis.

Round 1: Thomas
Round 2: Thomas
Round 3: Benton
Round 4: Benton
Round 5: Benton
Round 6: Even
Round 7: Thomas
Round 8: Even
Round 9: Thomas
Round 10: Benton

Total: 4-4-2 Draw (actual scores: 6-3-1, 6-4 and 8-2 all for Benton)

This was a damn close fight where Thomas fought a steady, rhythmic fight where he popped away behind the jab and had a good work-rate without doing anything really special outside of this style. Benton, on the other hand, was so slick and, although he didn't fight with the workrate of Thomas (apart from the 10th round), he could turn a round in his favor by scoring the more explosive, eye-catching shots. Many rounds were close and subjective to the viewer/judges likes. For instance, Don Dunphy stated after the 8th round, "a rough round for Thomas", but I scored it a draw. Yes, I agree that Benton caught Thomas with some good ones, but that was late in a round where Thomas again produced a good work-rate and outfought him most of the round before then. So again, more substantial shots from Benton and more work from Thomas. You decide. But a good fight.

 

So... Because of the 50th Anniversary of Muhammad Ali vs Joe Frazier in the "Fight of the Century" I decided to watch the Trilogy in a row with herbs. Goddamn... what a story that was told and the history of how each of these fights that took place... truly mesmerizing.

Historically, I believe this may be the Greatest Trilogy in not just Boxing, but Sports history. The time that the 3 fights covers offer a snapshot to the times of the era. The first fight alone can be the subject for College Courses, because of the Social, Political, Racial, Civil Rights, and Sporting History that comes behind not only the fight itself, but how the fight was made and the origins of how Frazier was one of the spearheads to how Ali got his career back. History and the world will remember these 3 fights, and sadly people (general public or casual fan) really don't see the gravity of how much these fights matter to society.

Anyway lol.
The first fight had this atmosphere about it, and when I had the chance to compare the situation of Wilder vs Fury I to my other boxing fans/forums, people laughed. But in reality, it really is vastly similar. Muhammad Ali, who had 3 years of his PRIME, the great "float like a butterfly and sting like a bee" was a style that was never truly the same after the suspension. Ali was a trend-setter, he was punished for saying "No, I do not agree with this war, and I will not corrupt my principles for a government that doesn't give me a fair shake in the first place." Now I, myself am a Veteran and proudly served, but what Ali did is exactly what I fight for, the Freedom to say you agree or in this case disagree with something, and you should not corrupt your moral principles for such a cause. I respect every Vietnam Veteran I've ever met, and most agree that what the government took from Muhammad Ali in those 3 years, is time that we can never get back from one of the most beautiful souls to ever grace the planet. Peak Ali, 3 years of Peak Ali, taken away.

Frazier picked up where Ali left off, but instead of being condescending and "I'm the only one", Frazier knew that in order to be seen as legitimate as a champion, he MUST face Ali. And with that Frazier actually helped the battle for Ali to get his boxing license back. Even though, Joe would be later called the "Uncle Tom" or "House Negro" by Ali. So all the support and admiration from Frazier to get Ali back in the ring, was returned with not just hate, but betrayal? That is why Frazier held so much animosity for most of their lives. Very tragic, but some say for "Promotion" but that cut deep. Then we get to fight night.

"The hour of truth has arrived" was exactly what Ali knew and said before going out to his first fight for a world title in 3 years, and he was 100% correct.

Ali (undefeated lineal champion, who never lost his title) vs Frazier (undefeated, reigning, defending champion, who inspired and helped his opponent to return) (Sounds familiar to Fury vs Wilder)

Ali was 29 Years Old, 31-0, and 215 lbs)
Frazier was 27 Years Old, 27-0, and 205.5 lbs)

"The Fight of the Century"
Ali vs Frazier I
Rd1= 10-9 (Great start by Ali, not as much footwork since suspension)
Rd2= 10-9 (Close round, but more control from Ali)
Rd3= 9-10 (Another good and close round, Frazier landed more significant shots)
Rd4= 9-10 (rough grinding round, body shots!)
Rd5= 9-10 (A Great Frazier Round)
Rd6= 9-10 (Relentless advancing from Frazier)
Rd7= 10-9 (Good movement and defense from Ali)
Rd8= 9-10 (Early Rope-a-Dope inspired, but not perfected)
Rd9= 10-9 (Strongest Ali round thus far)
Rd10= 10-9 (Ali just out boxed and out jabbed Frazier, what did Frazier say on his way back to corner at end of the round?)
Rd11= 9-10 (Accidental slip occurred and the Ali got HURT bad)
Rd12= 9-10 (Momentum shift to Frazier being the aggressor)
Rd13= 9-10 (Close round, but damn Frazier landed effective shots)
Rd14= 10-9 (Ali coming back? impressive)
Rd15= 8-10 (WOW what a knockdown, and Ali got back up quick and just heart. Amazing)

Muhammad Ali - Joe Frazier
Total: 140-144
Rounds total: 6-9

 

Muhammad Ali vs Joe Frazier II "Super Fight II"
Cursed that this fight isn't 15 Rounds for the Championship (Thanks George Foreman lol) This was a good fight. I feel like it is overlooked a lot because of the gravity of the 1st and 3rd. But it was good. I liked it. This is more of the Ali that should have been there in the 1st fight. Ali clinched a lot, but the foot work was more there. It was kinda great, the broadcast I saw had OJ Simpson show up randomly to tell us the Scores from the Ref and 2 Judges. WHO was this announcer? Kinda sucked tbh or at least done better with structuring information. It could have been WAY more hype. Also, ****ing Larry Merchant getting a shout out mid broadcast, he had Frazier winning which was interesting. There was Drama during this fight, and it was a big surprise.

Ali was 32 Years Old (3 years older), 43-2 (14 More Fights), Weighed in at 212 lbs (-3 from first fight)
Frazier was 30 Years Old, 30-1 (4 More Fights), Weighed in at 209 lbs (+3.5 lbs from first fight)

Ali vs Frazier II
Rd1= 10-9 (Great start by Ali, much more footwork than the first time, Frazier is a slow starter)
Rd2= 10-9 (WTF WAS THAT ROUND ENDING!? The ref ****ed up BAD at the end, especially since this was the most hurt Frazier has been in, in both fights at this point)
Rd3= 9-10 (Frazier turns up the pace and started off strong)
Rd4= 10-9 (Ok round)
Rd5= 9-10 (Frazier put better work in that round)
Rd6= 10-9 (Cleaner shots from Ali)
Rd7= 9-10 (Frazier talking **** during the round, really got in it)
Rd8= 9-10 (Did Ali get injured this round, he seems like his hand or shoulder may be bothering him?)
Rd9= 10-9 (Close round, felt Ali took it)
Rd10= 9-10 (Frazier landed the cleaner shots)
Rd11= 10-9 (Ali just landed more)
Rd12= 10-9 (Close and fun ending)

Muhammad Ali-Joe Frazier II
Total: 115-113
Round Total: 7-5

Also, the broadcast was lead by Howard Cosell, WOW that man is a 1 man wrecking crew of commentary. Amazing and really underrated. Well maybe not underrated, but not talked about enough.

Overall a good bout, it was competitive but not as exciting as the first bout imo, but a must watch if you decide to do the whole trilogy.

 

Muhammad Ali vs Joe Frazier III "The Thrilla in Manilla"

So it has come down to this, 1-1, Championship on the line. A whole new country to show off the strength of these 2 gladiators. This night is different, this night was special, the aura of this event, you could tell that something special was going to happen this night. Who would have thought that these 2 MEN, these 2 BOXING ICONS, would deliver something so soul defining as a sport. Ali said this was "the closest he felt to death" that night and the pace, and heart, and grit that was shown, awe inspiring.

How this fight was made as well and the location is amazing as well, and filled with corruption and back-alley dealing (thanks Don King lol) but wow.

To point a few things out before the scoring, Ali was a comedic genius this bout, I never seen a guy get such a stage and humor presence, Ali had the crowd roaring with laughter, and the bit with the trophy was amazing, even Frazier thought it was funny it looked like. And the unsung hero of this match as well, Goddamn Carlos Padilla Jr.! WOW, this is one of the best Ref jobs that I've ever seen in a boxing match. Fair, just, observant, and let Ali and Frazier work. Fantastic.


October 1st 1975, Wednesday, 1667 Days since the First Fight, 610 Days since the 2nd) THIS FIGHT HAPPENED ON GODDAMN HUMPDAY?! WHAAAA!? ****ING THE FIRST AND SECOND HAPPENED ON A MONDAY?! Such amazing that these type of events happen on a Weekday. lol

Ali was 33 Years Old, 48-2 (4 More Fights), and weighed in at 224.5 lbs (+9.5 Lbs from 1st Fight, +12.5 lbs from 2nd Fight) It was mentioned by Ali's corner that he packed on the extra weight to help him get through the heat. it was over 100 degrees that night in Manilla.
Frazier was 31 Years Old (4 Years Older from 1st fight, 1 year and 10 months from 2nd fight), 32-2 (2 more fights), and weighed in at 215.5 lbs (+10 lbs from 1st fight, +6.5 lbs from 2nd)

Ali - Frazier III
Rd1= 10-9 (Ali starts strong as usual, but this pace that these 2 are putting on, how will this last all 15?)
Rd2= 10-9 (Strong round for Ali and his power shots)
Rd3= 10-9 (Frazier was effective at points, but overall an Ali round, but Frazier will turn on later)
Rd4= 9-10 (How hot is it there? Well that random squeaking you hear, the GODDAMN GLOVES! Power, key shots, relentless! Body shots won Frazier that round)
Rd5= 9-10 (Frazier took that round and SLAPPED that glove at this pace he put on at the end, statement round)
Rd6= 9-10 (BIG ROUND for Frazier, Hard Hook Hurt Ali BAD!)
Rd7= 9-10 (At this point both of these men are getting tired and can you blame them?)
Rd8= 9-10 (Strong Frazier Ending outdoes the quick start by Ali. Ken Norton had Ali ahead at this point of the Fight, and honestly I think that is because of Bias from him, Frazier is dominate in the middle rounds)
Rd9= 9-10 (Body shots, you can tell Ali wanted to Rope-A-Dope, but Frazier is very patient and accurate with his punches more than Foreman, so it didn't effect him as much)
Rd10= 10-9 (Wow, Ali coming back, threw more and harder shots)
Rd11= 10-9 (Ali starting to rally, but Frazier is not even moving back, his eyes are starting to close)
Rd12= 9-10 (Good clean shots to the body and aggressive hooks by Frazier, Frazier knows his eyes are closing and he had to turn it up)
Rd13= 10-9 (FRAZIER LOSES HIS MOUTH PIECE! Wow, who else?! Who Else could sustain this punishment and keep moving forward? Frazier is a BAD MAN! This was Frazier's grit moment, like Ali getting back up from round 15 in the 1st fight)
Rd14= 10-9 (This was it, this was the moment where it could have been stopped, but it wasn't. Raw determination. Frazier was hurt and in trouble, but he still stood there. Amazing. Ali poured it on, he wanted that finish, but Frazier is his perfect dance partner.
Rd15= Frazier RTD (Eddie Futch saved years of both Ali's and Frazier's life, and probably saved Frazier's eyesight. Man. And knowing that Ali wanted to stop and Frazier wanted to keep going, is just amazing and captivating. Just wow.

Ali acknowledges Frazier as a GOAT next to him, and couldn't stand for his interview, exhaustion. Amazing. If this continued, I believe Ali would have won the decision.

Muhammad Ali vs Joe Frazier III is RTD 15
Total Prior to Stoppage: 133-133 (I had it a draw)
Rounds Prior to Stoppage: 7-7

The Greatest Fight Ever imo. A must watch for EVERYONE!


Random Stats I've noticed (For my scoring):
Ali won every round: 1, 2, 14* (only 2 fights of 3 were 15 rounds)
Frazier won every round: 5, 8
Only 1 Knock Down: Frazier 1st Fight Round 15
Imo Ali was the most Hurt in Round 15 of 1st Fight
Imo Frazier was most Hurt in Round 14 of 3rd Fight
If 1st and 3rd Fights were 12 Rounds like 2nd: Ali-Frazier I (113-115) & Ali-Frazier III (113-115) wow.
Total Points Scored (with 10-8 for Frazier in Rd15 of 1st fight cause of Knockdown): Ali (140,115,133) = 388 & Frazier (144,113,133) = 390 (interesting)
Total Rounds Won (Out of 41 Rounds Fought): Ali = 20 & Frazier = 21

Frazier really by the numbers "won" this trilogy. But wow, interesting when you really break it down.

 

Great stuff there @HDmexiqtioner — I hope keep bringing it!

 

Erik Morales v Manny Pacquiao II

Needed to check out a good war today after watching some of those 'fights' last night. Here we go.

Round 1: 10-10 Even
Round 2: 10-9 Pac
Round 3: 10-9 Morales
Round 4: 10-10 Even
Round 5: 10-9 Morales
Round 6: 10-9 Pac
Round 7: 10-9 Pac
Round 8: 10-9 Pac
Round 9: 10-9 Pac
Round 10: Pac drops Morales twice and the ref stops the contest

Total through 9 complete rounds: 88-85 Manny Pac (actual scores: 87-84, 87-84 and 86-85 all for Manny Pac)

When Morales could keep the space between them in order to jab and sharp-shoot with the right he was golden. But damn! Manny would just tear in with reckless abandon and negate that option in lieu of a nasty shootout. Despite a terrific response from Erik, this was Pac's forte on the inside and he just slowly eroded the Morales resolve. There was a lot of wars on the Morales odometer by this time and things weren't going to get better. Still, some great exchanges here and well worth watching.

 

Gerry Cooney vs. Jimmy Young, scheduled for 10 rounds, May 25, 1980 at Convention Hall in Atlantic City, NJ.

Young is 25-9-2, coming off two wins in a row after losing four of his previous five (starting with the Ken Norton fight, extending through back-to-back losses to Ossie Ocasio and then Michael Dokes) — including a win over once-beaten John L Gardner in the UK — and looks in pretty good shape at 223 pounds. He is rated No. 6 in the world by the WBC.

Cooney is 22-0, ranked No. 1 by the WBA and No. 3 by the WBC. He weighs 224 1/4.

CBS televises with the splendid team of Tim Ryan and Gil Clancy on the call.

Round 1: Cooney 10-9 — Gerry gets the better of it, scoring early with the jab and doing some good body work, but by late in the round Jimmy seems to have figured out the jab and is taking it away.

Round 2: Young 10-9 — Young’s defense is locked in as Cooney throws combos to the head and cannot land. The jab is now falling short as Jimmy leans a bit to his right and back. Young lands good jabs and goes on he offensive with some nice body work.

Round 3: Cooney 10-9 — Pretty even start and then about a minute in Gerry lands a left uppercut that opens up a big cut over Young’s right eye. Cooney opens up with everything he has but Young’s defense is still on point and most of the head shots miss, but Gerry does some work downstairs. In the final minute, Jimmy rumbles with Cooney and lands some good short shots in close and to the body (including a couple of low blows). He survives the round but is a bloody mess.

Round 4: Cooney 10-9 — Gerry comes out blazing and rakes Young over along the ropes to open the cut back up and it’s a gusher. Jimmy fights a bit off the ropes and covers but Cooney is getting the better of it. Then Young becomes makes his last stand, fighting his way off the ropes and backing Cooney up, landing some good left hooks and a few body shots. But the final minute is all Cooney as it’s clear Jimmy can’t see with the blood running into his eyes.

At the end of the round, the fight is stopped due to the cut.

I think this is probably Cooney’s best career win — not a bad version of Young, who goes on to win his next five fights against decent competition before finally losing to Greg Page. In fact, this is Young’s only loss in a span of two years and his best stretch after losing to Norton.

 

This was from our FOTW thread, but it always belongs here.

Hilmer Kenty v Sean O'Grady (lightweight championship)

I recall when I first saw it how poised I felt Kenty was at the beginning of each round and how he would start out delivering some sizzling combos on O'Grady, which I agree with now also. I also thought he fought well each round especially when Sean would give him a bit of space. However, there were many rounds I felt Kenty was leading only to get battered by another O'Grady flurry. Sean's power really tipped the scales for me. Anyways, here is how I saw it.

Round 1: 10-9 Kenty
Round 2: 10-8 O'Grady (scores a knockdown)
Round 3: 10-9 O'Grady
Round 4: 10-9 Kenty
Round 5: 10-9 O'Grady
Round 6: 10-10 Even
Round 7: 10-9 O'Grady
Round 8: 10-8 O'Grady (scores a knockdown)
Round 9: 10-9 O'Grady
Round 10: 10-9 O'Grady
Round 11: 10-9 O'Grady
Round 12: 10-9 O'Grady
Round 13: 10-9 O'Grady
Round 14: 10-9 O'Grady
Round 15: 10-9 O'Grady

Total: 148-136 O'Grady

 

Thomas Hearns vs. Juan Domingo Roldan on Oct. 29, 1987, for the vacant WBC middleweight championship at Las Vegas Hilton Outdoor Arena in Nevada.

Hearns is 44-2 and weighs in at 159 1/2 as an 8-5 favorite.

Roldan is 65-3-2 and scales 159 1/4.

Ray Leonard vacated the WBC and WBA titles in late May following his defeat of Marvin Hagler in April. Sumbu Kalumbay outboxed Iran Barkley for the WBA versions six days earlier in Italy.

Round 1: Hearns 10-7 — Roldan comes out rumbling and Hearns sharpshooting. The Hit Man puts Roldan down twice, the second time just before the bell ending the round.

Round 2: Hearns 10-8 — Hearns scores another knockdown but Roldan continues fighting his rough-and-tumble way with big clubbing shots and lots of mauling on the inside. Hearns pretty much man-handles him in the clinches.

Round 3: Roldan 10-9 — Juan Domingo find a home for his thudding right several times and lands the cleaner shots, with each man rocked a time or two. They ain’t playing patty cakes in there.

Round 4: Roldan hurts Hearns with a left hook and then is taken out by a Motor City Cobra right hand. Referee Mills Lane completes the 10 count at 2:01.

Hearns becomes the first fighter to win championships in four weight classes.

 

Larry Holmes (c) vs. Gerry Cooney on June 11, 1982, at Caesars Palace Outdoor Arena in Los Vegas, Nevada.

Holmes (39-0, 29 KOs) comes in at a trim and ready 212 1/2 pounds. He is 32 years old.

Cooney (25-0, 21 KOs) is 225 1/2 and ranked No. 1 by the WBC and the WBA. Cooney is 25.

The bound is contested in 90 degree ringside heat and it is estimated at perhaps 100 inside the ropes under the TV lights. A crowd of 29,284 gathers to witness this highly-anticipated showdown.

Cooney comes to the ring to the theme song from Rocky. Holmes chooses “Ain’t No Stopping Us Now.” Oddly, the champion Holmes is introduced first.

Round 1: Holmes 10-9 — He edges it with his jab and a late flurry off the ropes. Cooney lands a couple nice body shots.

Round 2: Holmes 10-8 — Larry scores a knockdown with a right hand with about 40 seconds to go.

Round 3: Cooney 10-9 — He gets back in it with a good jab and more body work.

Round 4: Cooney 10-9 — Wins most exchanges and throws some good right hands.

Round 5: Holmes 10-9 — Finds a home for his right hand several times.

Round 6: Holmes 10-9 — He rocks Cooney and does major damage with his right hand late in the round. Also opens up a cut over Cooney’s left eye.

Round 7: Cooney 10-9 — Busier.

Round 8: Holmes 10-9 — Best exchanges of he fight so far, with Larry’s jab and those laser-like rights edging it.

Round 9: Holmes 10-8 — I had it even, with Cooney docked two points for low blows (he had been warned repeatedly). Cooney’s eye starts bleeding significantly.

Round 10: Cooney 10-9 — Close round, best of the fight with some heated exchanges where both men land clean shots.

Round 11: Holmes 10-8 — Larry takes it with that jab and 2-3 big, sniper-like right hands. Cooney penalized another point for low blows.

Round 12: Holmes 10-9 — Jabs and chopping rights, Cooney fading before our eyes, no snap left on his punches.

Round 13: Holmes scores a knockdown late after chopping Gerry down and backing him up with right hands, forcing th disuse. Cooney slumps along the ropes and holds himself partially up by draping one arm over he ropes (though his glove touches the canvas). Victor Valle enters the ring and calls it off at the 2:52 mark of the round.

While Valle entering the ring is supposed to trigger a DQ, the fight is recorded as a technical knockout for Holmes.

Official scores at the time of stoppage: 115-109, 113-11 and 113-111 all for Holmes. The latter two are too close for my taste but there are rounds where Gerry lands more volume and forced the action but Holmes lands better, sharper shots but is more economical. I don’t think it was corrupt, just a difference of opinion in what’s valued by the judges.

My score: 116-109 for Holmes.

 

Scored this not too long ago. Here was what I wrote:

Round 1: 10-9 Holmes
Round 2: 10-8 Holmes (scores a knockdown)
Round 3: 10-9 Cooney
Round 4: 10-9 Cooney
Round 5: 10-10 Even
Round 6: 10-9 Holmes
Round 7: 10-10 Even
Round 8: 10-9 Cooney
Round 9: 9-8 Holmes (I scored this round for Cooney but he lost a point for a low blow and another point for I don't know what)
Round 10: 10-9 Cooney
Round 11: 10-8 Holmes (Cooney lost an additional point for another low-blow)
Round 12: 10-9 Holmes
Round 13: Holmes stops Cooney late in the round

Total (through 12 completed rounds): 115-111 Holmes

Official scores were something like 113-111 (twice) and 115-109 all for Holmes. I didn't think Cooney did too bad but really started to come apart at the seams over those last couple of rounds.

 

Fellas, I scored this last year. Here's what I wrote:

Larry Holmes v Gerry Cooney

Top notch heavyweight contest - Cooney did well considering he was hurt early and on more than one occasion too.

Shocking level of disrespect shown towards Holmes by the fans and the promoters too - having him announced before Cooney? Disgusting.

Holmes showed his greatness though and Cooney was only ever really keeping in touch with Holmes and the low blows didn't help his cause. The 10th was a great round though with both of them throwing caution to the wind.

1 10-9 (Holmes controlling distance with the jab)
2 10-8 (Cooney down from a nice Holmes 1-2)
3 9-10 (better from Cooney)
4 9-10
5 10-9
6 10-9 (Cooney edging the round before Holmes puts him in big trouble)
7 9-10 (Cooney probably just about sneaked the round as Larry was confident knowing he had Cooney hurt and could take his time)
8 10-9
9 9-8 (close - 2 point deduction for Cooney for low blow?)
10 9-10 (fantastic round - best of the fight)
11 10-9 (another point deduction against Cooney)
12 10-9
(115-111)
13 Holmes TKO Cooney

 

Thanks for posting!

A lot of the scoring differentials come down to how you score the ninth round — it can be a three-point round for Holmes if he won it on your card or a one-point round if you give that round to Cooney or a two-point round if you have it even, as I did.

 

Thanks Scar!

 

James Toney v Dave Tiberi
(IBF Middleweight title)

10-9 Toney
10-9 Tiberi
10-9 Tiberi
10-9 Tiberi
10-9 Tiberi
10-8 Toney
10-9 Toney
10-9 Tiberi
10-9 Toney
10-9 Toney
10-9 Tiberi
10-9 Tiberi

Total:
Tiberi: 114
Toney : 113

Notes:
Point unfairly taken from Tiberi in round 6 for a so-called low blow, giving Toney on my card a 10-8 round.

Observations:
Not quite the daylight robbery I've always read it was.
Tiberi was busier and forced the action, landing some good body blows particularly early in the fight.
Toney less active but scored the cleaner, harder punches for the most part. Still, Toney gave away many early rounds due to pure lethargy.
Round 6 seemed to be a bit of a tipping point.
Toney sensing urgency, began to make inroads. He became busier, and while Tiberi was still out landing him, Toney for my mind was doing enough to squeak some rounds in, landing fewer but crisper punches.
I can see some later rounds being in some doubt.

I think partly why this fight was seen as a disgrace was that Tiberi betting-wise was a no-hoper. You could not even get odds for this fight.
Toney was the fighter of the year the year previously.
It wasn't even expected to be much of a contest, leading to perhaps a somewhat OTT reaction to the result.
Tiberi almost swept the first 5 rounds. This may have influenced some to think that Toney had a mountain to climb, but the unfair point deduction, along with my view that he won round 6 anyway, cut that back significantly. As said, Toney did improve in the second half of the fight.

The heavy scores in favour of Toney by 2 of the judges are difficult to reconcile with me. In that sense, it was a robbery.
But ultimately, for me, it's a bad-though not disgraceful-decision.