the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

I took an amateur who was like 15-0 but already an achiever to San Antonio once. They flew us in — they did a black-tie charity event once a year in a swank ballroom, military guy vs. civilian in each fight. Put us up at Kelly Air Force Base, brought us out a few days early and took us out to eat and sightsee. It was a really nice deal and we were treated as well as any amateur or pro trip I’ve ever been on.

My kid was a middleweight and we fought Julian Fogle (who was much more experienced and got a stoppage win, a bit premature but Fogle was outclassing him).

But my kid was like 5-11 and built kind of like a middleweight Matthew Saad Muhammad, looked Ike he weighed 175.

We went to the gym a day or two before the fight along with the other civilian fighters (four or five in all from all over, ranging from lightweight to middle IIRC). Just loosening up.

So in walks Jesse James Leija and his trainer. He gets wrapped and everything and they bring him over to meet everybody. Super classy, nice kid, I think he’s holding a belt at 130 at this time but I don’t recall for sure.

He gets wrapped and comes over to meet everyone, nice as he can be, asks where everybody is from and welcomes us all. Then he says he wants to get in a couple of rounds of light sparring and goes down the line and asks each guy if he wants to go a couple. They all decline. He gets to my guy last and looks up, shakes his head and says ‘no f-ing way’ and smiles and walks off to work out.

It was pretty funny.

Also got to spend a bit of time in the gym getting cut man advice from Joe Souza, who was as free with information as anyone could ever ask.

 

I was reading the Henry Wharton 'Best I faced' (which I felt was very honest) the other day and thought I would look at his title bout with Chris Eubank, which was mentioned prominently. So here we go.

Chris Eubank v Henry Wharton

Round 1: 10-9 Eubank
Round 2: 10-9 Eubank
Round 3: 10-10 Even
Round 4: 10-9 Eubank
Round 5: 10-9 Wharton
Round 6: 10-9 Eubank
Round 7: 10-9 Eubank
Round 8: 10-9 Eubank
Round 9: 10-9 Eubank
Round 10: 10-9 Wharton
Round 11: 10-10 Even
Round 12: 10-10 Even

Total: 118-113 Eubank (actual scores: 118-112, 115-113 and 116-112 all for Eubank)

To begin, a very good fight and - despite my score - a very close fight. Many of these rounds were tricky because Eubank tends to go into a lull and fight in spurts, whereas Wharton is constantly chugging forward firing clubbing punches. I will agree with announcers on one thing though, Wharton pressed him into actually fighting. Eubank always seems to enjoy it when a fighter hangs back a bit so he could simply pick and choose his shots. Wharton was a good opponent who would have none of that and it made for a decent scrap.

 

James Toney vs Montell Griffin II
Rounds Won/Even
Toney - 4,5,8,9,10,11
Griffin - 1,2,3,6,12
Even - 7

My Scorecard
(T)115-114(G)
Winner: Toney​

Good fight. Closer than the first. Montell was using more angles & taking the early rounds, but Toney found his way into the fight in the mid rounds. Many close rounds where I gave it to the fighter I felt did a little bit extra to win the round. Scorecards were ridiculously wide - especially the 119-109 in favour of Griffin. Toney was once again robbed.​

 

Carlos Monzon v Tony Licata

Something got me thinking about this fight again the other day. I have never watched it since I saw it live on closed circuit back in '75 where it was a co-feature with the Victor Galindez v Jorge Ahumada title fight in MSG and then whisked us away to Malaysia for the forgettable Ali-Bugner fight. Still, a great night of boxing. Anyways, this 46 year old memory had me remembering that Licata started out well before running into a bad patch and started to come on before Monzon stopped him. Well, after rewatching it I'll say that was kinda, sorta, but in actuality Monzon never really lost control of this fight. Monzon was his usual awkward but effective self and soon realized that Tony, although tough as nails, had to be tamed by going to the body. No sense running a card here. I gave Tony the 1st round and a share of the 6th. Monzon dropped Tony in the 8th and twice in the 10th before the bout was stopped. Tony, at that point, was fighting on pure heart. He gave it one gutsy try. It was cool seeing this again. The fight had a real Garden feel with John Condon at the mic. On the NY rounds basis, which was what was used, I had it 7-1-1 for Monzon after 9 completed rounds. I don't know the official scorecards at that point, however.

 

Another FOTW entry.

Vassily Jirov v James Toney

Round 1: 10-10 Even
Round 2: 10-9 Jirov
Round 3: 10-9 Toney
Round 4: 10-9 Jirov
Round 5: 10-10 Even
Round 6: 10-9 Jirov
Round 7: 10-9 Toney
Round 8: 9-9 Even (Jirov's round but deducted a point for a low blow)
Round 9: 10-9 Jirov
Round 10: 10-9 Toney
Round 11: 10-9 Jirov
Round 12: 10-8 Toney (scores a knockdown)

Total: 114-114 Draw (actual scores: 117-109, 116-110 and 117-109 all for Toney)

IMO, this was the makeup for Toney-Tiberi. In fact, you could call it Toney-Tiberi II. By this I mean - and I scored that fight for Toney - weighing the most punches v the more substantial punches. This, of course, is up to the judge and is a very fine line. But an excellent bout, despite my viewing it as a very close encounter.

 

Saul "Canelo" Alverez vs Billy Joe Saunders

Important fight for boxing. One step closer to Unified and Undisputed status for the Super Middleweight Division.
Did it live up to the hype for me? Kinda. I feel that this is a startup for a larger fight arc that will take place because of this fight.

I am not the die hard Canelo fan that majority of my Mexican contemporaries are (not a race thing, just not a die hard or drink Oscar's Kool-Aid thing) But I understand what he has accomplished and followed his career for a while. Canelo is an era defining boxer if he continues the way he is, being beyond De la Hoya, Morales, and Barrera is something that can happen soon, if not is happening now.

Billy Joe Saunders is a boxer I am surprised to make it to this moment. Not Championship status, but facing Canelo. I remember for the longest time an interview with BJS like a couple years ago, with him saying that he "is not able to beat Canelo and would lose if we fought right now." Sure this was BJS peak, but damn what a STATEMENT, like "Certain this will happen!" type of feeling. I knew though BJS was pretty legit and should be thrown up there with top tier boxers because when BJS is on, the man is ON.

Anyway, here's how I scored it.

Canelo-Saunders
RD1: 10-9 (Saunders dictated the pace for like 30 seconds before Canelo takes the center. Saunders goes southpaw)
RD2: 10-9 (Saunders is close but not nailing it outright. But close. Canelo landed more cleanly.)
RD3: 10-9 (Out worked. Clean Hook. Cool reaction. Good last second action from Saunders.)
RD4:10-9 (BJS has a CHIN. Body Shots from Canelo. Bothering Saunders. Feels that Canelo is working towards the finish SOON.)
RD5: 9-10 (HARD SHOTS BY SAUNDERS. BJS might be getting his rhythm.)
RD6: 9-10 (BJS toying and outboxing Canelo? wow. BJS has a groove.)
RD7: 9-10 (Canelo body shots, just ripping them. BJS keeping a good jab, Canelo just trying to land the BIG shots. Still clowning him. BJS takes the round by volume.)
RD8: 10-9 (Big shots to the body from Canelo. BJS started the round boxing well. BIG UPPERCUT. Turning the showboating around on BJS. Whatever BJS had for momentum is halted.)
RD9: RTD
Billy Joe Saunders Retires in Corner before Round 9.

Score before retirement:
77-75
5-3

This was a good fight. Like it was good. Average. Sure it has the "most ever attendance" for a boxing match in Cowboy Stadium, this was the biggest fight to make in the division moneywise, and you are one step closer to Undisputed and Unified status as stated before.

This could have been a GREAT fight if BJS maybe came out and rallied, but you get what you get. It shows why Canelo is the current P4P spearhead. I am not 100% sure where Canelo goes from here besides Plant, would they? I'm interested how that goes if that is the case. GGG is on the table, but the iron is very cold right now. BUT... what if though? lol. But it does seem like a continuation to something bigger, but BJS was an obstacle for the "true" test. Idk who that is besides GGG, but I'm excited to find out. If BJS comes back from this, he needs a good KO to get that publicity back. I mean, I am sure he probably broke something, but to "those who don't get it/casuals" they will call BJS a coward and quitter and give him the Vitali treatment. But this is before it is determined to the public if he ever broke anything. Maybe, but that would help.

Good fight, cut short from a great one.

 

Marvin Hagler v Bennie Briscoe

I saw this was out there in its entirety and always heard Bennie did well. Bennie was one of my favorites and I still remember back in the day reading the mags and one could see Ring magazine really leaning towards Tony Mundine as the heir apparent to Monzon. Even publishing a an article that said 'Continental experts see Mundine replacing Monzon.' But I was a Briscoe fan and when I read the result of Briscoe-Mundine I almost jumped out of my skin. But of course, cheering and judging are two different things and this was an aging Briscoe against a very hot Hagler.

It was unusual in this bout to see Hagler in the role of boxer, but when one sees that this may have been a creaking Briscoe but a still very hard-punching one, you could see how he could still put a very bad individual on the back foot. Still, Hagler on the back foot unleashed quite the arsenal and Bennie caught every jab, hook and cross coming his way. Bennie put all kinds of pressure on Hagler but he just didn't have the reflexes of old. He did well but I only gave him a share of the 4th for a 50-41 score for Hagler (actual scores: 49-43, 47-44 and 48-43 all for Hagler). I heard the Philly commentary team say they had Hagler up by 2 points at the end. I think that was a bit of nostalgia at play, which I also felt, but I gotta score them the way I see them. Good fight.

 

Scar, I saw this back in the mid-90s. I bought a boxing mag which had a VHS with this fight and Hagler's third fight with Willie The Worm Monroe on it.

I was really ill with a raging temperature and was hopped up on Day Nurse (UK equivalent of DayQuil) but was so happy as I'd never seen Briscoe before and I'd heard about this fight - and, of course, this was pre-YouTube and easy access to classic boxing footage. The fight wasn't that great but watching anything like this back then was a treat and Hagler clearly controlled it off the back foot as you say.

 

Great memory on the fight, Jel, and what you were doing at the time. I too will remember some event and what was going on peripherally. Good times. So you bought a magazine with a VHS tape in the package? Sounds quaint today, but still cool. Like you said, we didn't have youtube back then and we grabbed what we could.

 

Turns out my memory was slightly faulty - found the tape:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B004W2CEBU/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_3T6V1TB4FAN5ZWVQPT56
It was Eugene Hart, not Willie Monroe.

 

Bazooka Lemon versus Cornelius Boza-Edwards
WBC Super Featherweight world Championship

Round 1 Boza 10-9
Round 2 Boza 10-9
Round 3 Boza 10-9
Round 4 Limon 10-9
Round 5 Boza 10-8
Round 6 Boza 10-9
Round 7 Even 10-10
Round 8 Boza 10-9
Round 9 Limon 10-9
Round 10 Limon 10-9
Round 11 Boza 10-9
Round 12 Boza 10-9
Round 13 Even 9-9*
Round 14 Limon 10-9
Round 15 Limon 10-9

Total:
144-140 Boza-Edwards

Official scores:
146-139
143-141
146-141
All for Boza-Edwards

Notes: I scored round 13 10-9 for Limon, but with the point deduction for low blows, it became 9-9.

A very enjoyable fight between two men with great conditioning. It was Boza-Edwards who looked a lot sharper and better, especially in the early going. Limon is to me such a fascinating fighter.
At times, he looks little better than a club fighter; almost no jab to speak of, takes wild swipes from left field, isn't hard to hit and in general barely looks skilled at all.

But then he starts digging to the body, eating flush shots like they're nothing and making the other guy work like hell.
Crazy will and courage and what an engine. Almost limitless stamina and heart. A true 15-round fighter.
Boza was clearly more skilled and looked to be running away with the fight, but Limon started to make inroads from about round seven onwards, and in the end, made the scoreline respectable.

 

Hector 'Macho' Camacho versus Cornelius Boza-Edwards
WBC World Lightweight Championship.

Round 1 Macho 10-8
Round 2 Boza 10-9
Round 3 Boza 10-9
Round 4 Macho 10-9
Round 5 Macho 10-9
Round 6 Even
Round 7 Macho 10-9
Round 8 Boza 10-9
Round 9 Boza 10-9
Round 10 Macho 10-9
Round 11 Macho 10-9
Round 12 Macho 10-9

Total: 115-112 Macho Camacho

Official scores:
115-112
118-109
120-108

What a stinker. I feel annoyed for making myself sit through this rubbish again, but such is life.
Camacho, such a talented fighter, fighting in front of his home crowd, decided to make this a non-fight.
Clearly the effects of almost getting knocked out by Rosario played on his mind.
After quite an aggressive start, where he dropped Boza-Edwards early, he decided to make it a track meet.
Dancing around the ring, flicking out a meaningless jab occasionally, he didn't let Boza-Edwards near him.
Boza-Edwards was getting more and more frustrated as the fight wore on, and the crowd booed lustily.
Cornelius now and then managed to get Camacho on the ropes and score a bodyshot or two, before being tied up. These were the rounds I gave Boza-Edwards. Other rounds, I was forced to give to Camacho for landing a couple of flicking jabs but nothing else.
Nonetheless, these are scoring punches, however harmless they may have been.

Camacho managed to win the last 3 rounds, which gave him the win on my card. Not such an easy fight to score, thanks to the paucity of action.
Boza-Edwards is not to be blamed. He tried to make the fight. Camacho just refused to do anything except dart around the ring, throwing out a few jabs here and there.
The referee really should have taken stern action and warned Camacho for not boxing.
Moving around the ring is perfectly fine, as long as the fighter is actually boxing. This was not boxing from Camacho. It was running, plain and simple. He could have done so much more here.

The commentary team of Tompkins, Leonard and Merchant were very lenient with Camacho's antics, refusing to call it for what it was: a stinker.
Two of the three official scores were very wide, too wide for me.
Boza-Edwards was visibly upset after the fight, and who can blame him?
He tried to engage and make it a fight, but his dance partner had no intention of boxing.

 

FOF, great breakdown on both fights.

 

Thank you.

 

So... I decided to watch Evander Holyfield vs George Foreman. Needless to say, I have to mention besides how good of a fight this is, is the impact this had on George Foreman's career. Sure, this had him in the title picture for the first time in over decade, but the fact that he was as old as he was, and the fact that Ali and Frazier were at the event as guests really was amazing. Ali greeted himself to both Evander and then George. After seeing Ali lean in to talk to George before his bout/announcements to speak a few words. The mic couldn't pick it up, so I wondered... What did Ali say to George?

So I tweeted at George lol.
And goddamn did one of my boxing idols respond.


"A time for greeting “Good luck” When he and Frazier left the ring; I wondered “what am I doing still in the ring?” - George Foreman

Not only was this an important fight for Foreman in the moment, but this was an important fight for Foreman's career. If he lost, it proves that time had caught up with Foreman, and he is no longer world level. The tweet mentions Ali and Frazier, who were basically Foreman's contemporaries and other All Time Greats were retired, he was the last one of his breed besides Holmes, and even then Holmes was passed his true hayday.

But Ali, Frazier, Norton, and Holmes's time was passed, and this was the era of Tyson, Holyfield, Bowe, and Moorer. This fight was to prove if Foreman still belonged or was this comeback just for money from that old champion? Ali was defeated by the new blood in Holmes, Frazier's comeback in 81 was a draw against a guy who had fought 5 people with a winning record at the time, Norton was knocked out by Cooney, and Holmes was "truly" defeated by Mike Tyson and never could recapture that prime magic, if they were gone and done, what does that say about George? Was his time up? This fight must have been a large burden for Foreman mentally.

This fight was a statement. And honestly the Commentators were fairly disrespectful to Foreman about his age, 42 is not that old. Sure being at elite level it is difficult but as Larry Merchant put it "[Foreman was like] an old man confused in traffic." when getting hit, which goddamn Merchant, you paused and stuttered and almost forgot what you were going to say, don't give **** about any one's age. lol

Holyfield was champion making his first defense of his Undisputed title after winning it from Buster Douglas who was fresh from dethroning Tyson in the greatest upset in boxing history. He was walked to the ring by "Sweet Pea" Pernell Whitaker which I found cool. It was stated in the broadcast that he made upwards of $21 Million Dollars in this fight. He weighed in 208 lbs, and was 25-0 (21 KO) and was 28 years old.

George Foreman was 42 years old, 257 lbs, and ranked in the top 3 in the IBF, WBC, and WBA but not #1. He made 12+ Million Dollars. He was cornered by both Archie Moore and Angelo Dundee (so legendary resources) and this was his first attempt at a World Title in 18 years. After changing his life by being born again, this was a huge moment, that honestly sets apart Foreman from other boxers, Foreman's first run made him an A-Tier Heavyweight, but the comeback made him S-Tier, and this fight set that tone.


Holyfield-Foreman
Rd1= 10-9 (Holyfield was quicker and landed more punches, Foreman was the aggressor, so impressive that Evander did it on the back foot and his lateral movement.)
Rd2= 9-10 (Great jab by Foreman. Holyfield starts well, but Foreman closed strong)
Rd3= 10-9 (Great end by Holyfield, a close round with BIG SHOTS)
Rd4= 10-9 (Lol why is there a smokebomb, also Letterman is the slowest joke teller ever lol. Foreman got hurt)
Rd5= 10-9 (Good ending rally and pace set by Holyfield)
Rd6= 10-9 (Close but more shots thrown for me)
Rd7= 10-9 (Great Foreman opening minute, then a GREAT EVANDER COMEBACK with a 10+ Combination)
Rd8= 10-9 (Close but better work)
Rd9= 10-9 (The most George gets hurt in this fight)
Rd10= 10-9 (BIG TRADES, Fun round)
Rd11= 10-8 (-1 cause of low blows, sucks but damn it just found that belt line too often)
Rd12= 10-9 (Good last round for both, but better work from Evander)

TOTAL= 119-108 Evander Holyfield
ROUNDS= 11-1

Honestly, this fight should be talked about more often. It was not the "blow out" that the scores make it seem. George was never "out of his element" or "Out of the league" against Evander Holyfield, he made it through, and proves that this comeback wasn't just a pipe dream.

Great showing by Evander Holyfield, Great first defense, and a passing of the torch moment (sorta). Wonder what it would be like if this was 70s Foreman. Oooooooooooooo.