the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mantequilla, Nov 20, 2009.

  1. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

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    From our FOTW

    Lester Ellis v Barry Michael (IBF jr. lightweight title)


    Round 1: 10-9 Michael
    Round 2: 10-9 Michael
    Round 3: 10-9 Ellis
    Round 4: 10-9 Michael
    Round 5: 10-9 Michael
    Round 6: 10-9 Michael
    Round 7: 10-10 Even
    Round 8: 10-10 Even
    Round 9: 10-9 Michael
    Round 10: 10-10 Even
    Round 11: 10-9 Michael
    Round 12: 10-9 Michael
    Round 13: 10-9 Michael
    Round 14: 10-9 Michael
    Round 15: 10-9 Michael

    Total: 149-139 Michael (actual scores: 147-139, 147-140 and 145-140 all for Michael)

    Do not look at these scores and think for a minute that this was some white-wash of a fight. It certainly was not, with every round close. Michael started out pounding the body and stuck with it for 15 rounds. Ellis was tall and rangy but after unleashing a beautiful sharp combo, he would fall into a clinch where, of course, Michael would pound the body. This body work paid dividends in rounds 11 through 15 where it was wilting Ellis. I think Joe Bugner, who was commentating ringside, said it best in around the 9th round, when he said that Michael wasn't giving Ellis the room to get extension on his punches. I thought that was a very apt assessment. When Ellis could fire off a combo, it was beautiful and sharp, but then he would fall back into the clinch. The only thing I would disagree with Bugner on, was that I don't think it was entirely Michael's doing. It was like Ellis wasn't getting the instruction to stay the hell out of an inside fight. Perhaps with the animosity these two showed each other and the inside goading, it may have been a testosterone-fueled point to fight it out on the inside. Much to Michael's liking.
     
  2. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

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    Just got finished watching Julio Cesar Chavez vs Sammy Fuentes. Not a bad fight, although not one which blew my socks off. Just a fun little scrap between an all-time great (in a subpar performance) and a skilled, game challenger. You got an excellent showing of how good Chavez was defensively, because he didn't really get going until the final stages. Fuentes showed lots of different looks. Competent on the outside, inside, front foot, back. Lots of variety, and even though I didn't score it, there's no way he didn't win a good few of them. Chavez's bodywork got to him, though. Just wanted to knock one of the few Chavez title fights I've not yet seen. I watched another the other day, Chavez vs Kyung Duk Ahn. He made quick work of the unusually 'cute' Korean. I was expecting a short brawl, but I got Chavez showing that incredible ring-cutting and put on a brilliant display in bodywork, in what was likely supposed to be a light comeback fight.
     
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  3. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I watched two heavyweight fights that for some reason I missed back in the day. The first was:

    Buster Douglas v Trevor Berbick

    This was Douglas two fights before the Tyson fight. No use running a card here. I gave Berbick the 10th and a share of the 5th for a 99-92 card for Douglas (actual scores: 99-91, 99-91 and 98-92 all for Douglas). This fight made me think of what a shame what Douglas did to his career. He was in immaculate shape for this, as he was against Tyson. The jab and the combos were ripping in this fight. And for him to show up for the Holyfield fight looking like he ate at every deli on the way to the stadium, was a crying shame. He got his 23 million for Holyfield but just wouldn't put in the effort for training once his name went on the contract. He could have had the Buster Douglas era that we'd be talking about.

    Razor Ruddock v Greg Page

    Round 1: 10-9 Razor
    Round 2: 10-9 Razor
    Round 3: 10-9 Razor
    Round 4: 10-9 Page
    Round 5: 10-9 Razor
    Round 6: 10-9 Page
    Round 7: 10-9 Razor
    Round 8: 10-8 Razor (battered Page the last 30 seconds of the round)
    Referee Joe Cortez stops the fight between rounds

    Total: 78-73 through 8 completed rounds (actual scores: 76-75, 79-72 and 79-72 all for Ruddock)

    I remember when I first saw Razor and I was impressed. I felt he was a nice boxer and his trainer George Chuvalo was doing a good job with him as he outpointed Mike Weaver. Whatever happened to the union of Razor/Chuvalo I don't know, but once Razor found out he had an outstanding left uppercut, that was it for boxing and he became a one-trick pony. It was pitiful to watch new trainer Floyd Patterson pleading with him round after round to jab and use the right. He just went in and went left uppercut-crazy and was gassed after 3 rounds. Unfortunately this wasn't the Page of old who might have capitalized on this. Page tried and kept himself in the fight and IMO, was winning the 8th until Razor caught him with 30 seconds to go in the round. I've never been a big Joe Cortez fan, but at least he showed the good sense to stop the fight when Page could barely stand - incredibly - against the protests of Page's corner who were clearly going to try and push him out there for another round. But back to Razor, again, he really was a one-trick pony.
     
  4. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

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    Julio Cesar Chavez vs Mayweather II

    Mental to think I've never actually seen this one. Looking forward to it, since it's supposedly a real good watch.

    Chavez - Mayweather
    9 : 10*
    10 : 9
    10 : 8*
    10 : 9
    10 : 9 (49/45)
    10 : 9
    10 : 9
    9 : 10
    10 : 9
    10 : 9 (98/91)

    *R3: Point deduction??? No reason for it, but it is what it is. Extremely bias refereeing.

    The scoring wasn't particularly difficult. Early on, Roger looked good before Chavez nailed him with a great left hook in the second. He then took over and worked the body, tiring Mayweather out. Chavez's offence was far too varied for Mayweather, and he seemed to have an answer for everything Roger tried. I have absolutely no idea what the commentators were watching. There's absolutely no way Roger was ahead after six IMO. Just based on the ring generalship Chavez showed, I fail to see how you could give Roger the rounds.

    The crowd were a right bunch of ****s.

    Lee Wylie mentioned it in a tweet recently, about how good GGG was at taking punch - in the sense of him knowing how. Chin tucked, shoulders slightly over his hips and moving to take it high up on the head, rather than that on the chin. Combining the know-how with a granite jaw and an excellent defensive fighter, and you have somebody who's incredibly difficult to stop. Especially when that person is capable of walking down arguably the hardest punching lightweight ever :lol:

    I actually wasn't majorly impressed with Chavez here. Sure, he put a beatdown on a good fighter, but that's what I expect from Chavez. He wasn't nearly as scintillating here as he was at 135 or in the days when he could make 130, with no issues.
     
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  5. Pepsi Dioxide

    Pepsi Dioxide Member Full Member

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    I watched Douglas vs Berbick recently as well. This was kind of Berbicks last hurrah as a contender type before becoming a stepping stone and he was game and in shape for this one. But yea Douglas boxed great, was in good shape, and almost stopped Berbick a couple of times along the way. The McCall fight is next and its worth it to see 1) Douglas outbox McCall right before the Tyson fight 2) Douglas again being in shape 3) The HBO crew absolutely be disrespectful to McCall and Douglas (this I believe was recorded on a satellite live feed so you get their real thoughts on this). But a memorable fight, McCall Douglas is not.
     
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  6. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

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    Julio Cesar Chavez vs Juan Laporte

    Another one which I'm miraculously avoided. I dunno how given its notoriety as a poor performance, and renown for being an awesome fight. I mean, it's one the rare occasions where Laporte threw back, right?

    Chavez - Laporte
    9 : 10
    10 : 9
    9 : 10
    10 : 9 (38/38)
    10 : 9
    10 : 9
    9 : 10
    9 : 10 (76/76)
    10 : 9
    10 : 9
    10 : 9*
    10 : 9 (116/112)

    Very fun fight, so many close rounds.

    Scoring through six: Mostly straightforward. Laporte's work in patches paying off given Chavez's lowered workrate, and it took the first and third on mine, but primarily, Chavez is working the body, jabbing at range and in control up close. He's winning rounds without needing to expend much energy, something which I'm sure Laporte is jealous of. Chavez is clearly ahead after six IMO. Scoring from six through twelve: Laporte's work in patches was still getting him by - his double uppercuts and cross-counter are really impressive - but it's just too few and far between. Chavez is the one doing most of the work so he's winning most of the rounds.

    While watching some of these fights, I'm starting to think Chavez at super-feather is quite underrated, especially compared to him up at junior-welter. Sure, this fight and the Lockridge fight aren't great indictments, but I think you can put that down to him out-growing the weight as he got older, and his muscle got denser. His work in the early title defences (think Martinez, Mayweather I, Castillo, etc; ) was extraordinary. He was much more impressive in those fights than he was in the fights with Taylor, Mayweather II and Fuentes.

    A top five Chavez performances thread would be very interesting. Not that this would be one of them.
     
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  7. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Thanks, Pepsi. I found it amazing and a shame how Douglas, in shape, resembled an Emile Griffith with that upper body. Yet, showed up for Holyfield slovenly like he was saying, just give me my money. He really could have been someone we talked about with grandeur for years rather than an Andy Ruiz precursor.
     
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  8. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Loved this fight. LaPorte really rose to the occasion in this one. I thought the 11th and 12th were terrific rounds and I agree, some very close rounds.

    Julio Cesar Chavez vs. Juan LaPorte

    Round 1: 10-9 LaPorte
    Round 2: 10-9 Chavez
    Round 3: 10-9 LaPorte
    Round 4: 10-10 Even
    Round 5: 10-9 Chavez
    Round 6: 10-9 Chavez
    Round 7: 10-10 Even
    Round 8: 10-10 Even (Chavez was winning this round until LaPorte really came back at the end to even it)
    Round 9: 9-9 Even (Chavez won the round but was penalized a point for a low blow)
    Round 10: 10-9 Chavez
    Round 11: 10-9 Chavez
    Round 12: 10-9 Chavez

    Total: 117-113 Chavez
     
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  9. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

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    I completely forgot about the point deduction lol
     
  10. Jel

    Jel Reserving the right to be inconsistent Full Member

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    This is one of my favourite fights. Here's my write up.

    Julio Cesar Chavez v Juan LaPorte

    Fantastic and thoroughly absorbing fight. LaPorte started very well and gave Chavez a lot to think about before Julio started to wear him down and build momentum into the second half of the fight. From then on, Chavez looked to be in control but flurries and explosive bursts from LaPorte kept things close.

    A real test for a still young Chavez but no controversy on my card.

    1 9-10 (close but good start from LaPorte)
    2 10-9 (close again. High quality, back and forth - not much between them)
    3 9-10 (LaPorte is taking the fight to Chavez impressively)
    4 9-10 (Chavez decides to stay mobile rather than trade but LaPorte lands the best punches of the round)
    5 10-9
    6 10-9 (Chavez is coming back, working the body brilliantly. Dead even at the halfway point)
    7 10-10 (superb action, nothing between them)
    8 10-9 (Chavez providing the more consistent output with superb body punching and eye catching combos. LaPorte comes back hard at the end to bring the round to a crescendo)
    9 9-10 (pretty even round but Chavez docked a point early on, giving the round to LaPorte)
    10 10-9 (Chavez providing the consistent punch output as LaPprte seems to tire)
    11 10-9 (close. Chavez is in full search and destroy mode for the first half of the round but LaPorte comes back hard. Awesome stuff)
    12 10-9 (grandstand finish but Chavez took it)

    Chavez 116-113 LaPorte
     
  11. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

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    Julio Cesar Chavez vs Edwin Rosario

    I absolutely love this performance. Chavez was on fire, he showed almost everything he had. And Rosario didn't just roll over and give up, he gave it his all before succumbing. It's an awesome battle. Can't wait.

    Chavez - Rosario
    10 : 9
    10 : 9
    10 : 9*
    10 : 9
    10 : 9 (50/45)
    10 : 9
    10 : 9
    10 : 9
    10 : 9
    10 : 9 (100/90)
    Chavez TKO11

    Chavez's smothering was brilliant. Constant framing, pins and changing head slots pressed Rosario's arms in positions where he can't get that massive power in his punches. He also used plenty of handwork to control Rosario's balance and entire arsenal. Masterful positioning.

    You can see his great defence. When he worked off the ropes, you can see him leverage his upper-body and use it to get more mustard on his counters, but you can also watch him parry everything Rosario tried when he was up against the ropes. When he was walking Edwin down, he showed brilliant, Qawi-esque head-movement. Just uncanny 'eyes' on him, and as I mentioned yesterday, he knew how to take a punch, and his defence was built around it. Elbows tight, hands high enough to protect what's important but not obscure vision and chin always tucked. On the inside, he obviously knew what the feelings in his arms and shoulders meant. Just by the way he blocked body shots on the side he can't see, you know he was using absence of touch as his radar.

    Some of the technique was beautiful here, from both. Rosario's counter left might not have landed much, but it was thrown beautifully and his combinations were really fluid. Everything Chavez did was brilliant, but what really impressed me here was how he wove his little, rhythm-disrupting uppercuts into almost every dip of Rosario's head. Not only did he work them in, no matter what he'd just thrown - be it an uppercut with the other hand, a hook to the body or a lead right upstairs - he could also do it in reverse; throwing almost anything off an uppercut while maintaining both balance and power. Fundamentally, I don't think it's a stretch to say Chavez is the best fighter ever.

    His ring-cutting, ring smarts and ring generalship was superb. As early as the first minute, Chavez had Rosario's back to the ropes. Even when the referee was separating them, Chavez was already cutting the ring off. Within two minutes, Chavez had reduced Rosario's power, taken away his 'floating' movement, and forced him into the horrid pattern of fighting Chavez's fight. Everything else was built on these foundations. That's why the bodywork was effective, which in turn made the ring generalship even more authoritative.

    He really ****ed him up :lol:
     
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  12. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You summed up everything quite correctly. I will also add this, despite Rosario's power being negated somewhat by the phone-booth warfare, he still managed to detonate some real hand grenades on Chavez. But Chavez showed a jaw that enabled him to execute the fight plan. I totally loved this fight.
     
  13. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Jel, I remember reading a piece written by Flash Gordon, the very eccentric writer/editor behind his Flash Gordon's Tonight's Newsletter. And he was insistent that Laporte won the fight. So much so, that he began listing LaPorte in his ratings as the 130 lb. champ. Of course, no one took it seriously but he vehemently stood by it that Laporte was robbed. I do think two of the best performances by LaPorte was his losses to Chavez and Azumah Nelson, but I still feel he lost in both instances. BTW, have you ever checked out LaPorte's fight with Ruben Castillo? Good fight and break out the calculator when tallying up your score.
     
  14. Pepsi Dioxide

    Pepsi Dioxide Member Full Member

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    I think this is going to be my next watch! Sounds like a good fight and I don't remember watching this one!
     
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  15. Pepsi Dioxide

    Pepsi Dioxide Member Full Member

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    Vaca vs Honeyghan I October 28th 1987
    Honeyghan enters the ring 31-0 20 KOs is the reigning WBC, IBF and lineal true Welterweight champion. He beat P4P Welterweight king Donald Curry 13 months prior in Sept 86 and this is his 4th title defense (ahem...champions in 2021 fighting once a year). He previously defended against Johnny Bumphus, Maurice Blocker, and Gene Hatcher, so a pretty nice 13 months of wins by Honeyghan

    Vaca enters at 42-6-1 37 KOs. He's the current mexico welterweight champion having made 12 defenses of that regional title, he's also coming off a points win over faded former world champion Saoul Mamby which is probably his biggest win at this point.


    Round 1
    Hard round to judge because Honeyghan started strong, was a but overwhelmed by the amount of punches Vaca was throwing, then came back to land some nice shots. Vaca again asserts himself only for Honeyghan to reestablish himself before the end of the round. It felt like Vaca threw an unusually high number of punches so I rewatched the round and counted 131 punches thrown by Vaca. A couple may have been just feints but really its upwards of 120 shots he threw. A lot of shots targeting the body as well. Should be noted Honeyghan obviously did not like what Vaca was bringing to him as he turtles up a bit in the middle of this round.

    10-9 Honeyghan for effective clean punching and ring generalship(close and I have no issue this going to Vaca as well, a 10-10 round can be warranted but I'm trying to not score those)

    Inbetween rounds they interview Frank Bruno who says his performance tonight may have been the best he's ever done (will have to see who he fought when this is over) and that a shot at mike Tyson could be in the cards

    Round 2
    Honeyghan aggressive rocks vaca with a few shots but he recovers quickly. Vaca spends his time trying to maul Lloyd in close while Honeyghan switch hitting and really swinging for the fences with a lot of these shots. He lands many of these but is being a little irresponsible on defense letting his hands go low as he just wings haymakers. Vaca is landing when he can with shots that I feel Honeyghan could of avoided.

    10-9 Honeyghan

    20-18 Honeyghan

    Round 3
    Honeyghan has a cut near his eye in between rounds. Honeyghan much slower to start this round, is this because he's worried about the cut or is he tired from almost a full round of throwing huge haymakers at Vaca (maybe both). Vaca gets Lloyd against the ropes and mauls him landing some nice left hooks. Honeyghan looks like he's tired, he's still throwing and landing but his shots dont have as much zip or power as they did in rounds 1 and 2

    10-9 Vaca
    29-28 Honeyghan

    Round 4
    Honeyghan now trying to box Vaca mostly from southpaw. Haha Vaca has had enough of that and turns Southpaw himself for half a round. Vaca doesn't really throw any straight lefts or combos but he does match Lloyd for jabs and is landing the heavier of them including busting Honeyghans nose up. Still I think Honeygan edged this round

    10-9 Honeyghan
    39-37 Honeyghan

    Round 5
    Output has slowed from both. Pretty close round with Honeyghan switch hitting and trying to stay on the outside for the most part. Vaca did appear to briefly hurt Honeyghan twice this round, which had Lloyd put his back on the ropes and Vaca teed off on him. Vaca keeps coming forward

    10-9 Vaca, close
    48-47 Honeyghan

    Round 6
    Vaca gets tagged with some low blows and gets a breather. Action resumes and Honeyghan doing well boxing from the outside. Vaca goes southpaw again for a stretch and really can't do much except land a thudding jab. Honeyghan wins the round but is getting tagged more than he should. Also replay shows a really hard low blow

    10-9 Honeyghan
    58-56 Honeyghan

    Round 7
    Honeyghan wins most of the round but keeps his hands down low and gets hit with shots he should avoid. At the end Vaca gets Honeyghan in trouble and beats him on the ropes

    10-9 Honeyghan, close
    68-65 Honeyghan

    Round 8
    Vaca has a second wind and starts pummeling Honeyghan with a volume punching assault. All Vaca. Accidental clash of heads and Vaca is cut and its over let's go to the cards


    Long and I mean LOOOOOONG wait as scores are tallied. A lot of conversation going on probably because of the WBCs headbutt rule. Finally we go go the cards

    67-66 Vaca, 67-65 Honeyghan, 67-65 Vaca

    WBC has that off the wall rule that if you get cut by a clash of heads and are hurt, then a point is taken away from the other person, but you dot score the round (WTF WBC, did they just make that up in round 8?) Anyway that causes Vaca to end Honeyghans unbeaten streak and take the WBC title.

    Honeyghan has the IBF title but doesn't sanction this fight so it should be considered a non-title right? Yea its non title but because he lost the IBF strips him

    You may remember Honeyghan winning the WBA title from Curry too. Well they stripped him for not fighting in South Africa previously around this time.

    So Honeyghan loses all of his titles, one from not fighting in a country that was at the time having political/societal issues that the WBA could of just let slide and let him defend in almost any other country, the IBF for losing a non title fight, and the WBC for that random headbutt rule. Boxing....never change.

    For what its worth I had it (with the WBCs dumb point deduction) 67-65 Honeyghan. There was a round or two that could of swung this to a draw or to a win for Honeyghan.

    My final thoughts are Honeyghan wanted a showcase KO in his home country against a relatively unknown challenger who had been stopped in all of his losses. What he got was a determined, craggy, in shape challenger who could volume punch and also throw with some power. Lloyd also fought pretty reckless and exhausted himself with that assault in round 2 just throwing haymakers (I mean real home run swings). From there on out he looked like he just finished a marathon while Vaca was still plodding along with good cardio. Even still I had him up at the time they called it, but Vaca was rallying pretty hard in round 8 and landing a lot of good shots so who knows how this would of ended.

    Honeyghan would go on to regain his title from Vaca in his very next fight (I'll have to rewatch that one later).

    Vaca would go on to have a very interesting career. Mostly losing but his competition was upped significantly after this and fought a lot of champions, contenders, and prospects. He would spring some decent wins here and there. I remember seeing him against Jose Luis Lopez when Vaca was way out of his prime and though he was getting dropped he closed Lopez's eye and almost stopped him from it until his chin let him down. You always had to be ready for Vaca because you never knew what were you gonna get, sometimes he would fold early and other times his chin would hold out and he could be a tough night
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2021 at 10:18 PM
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