the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mantequilla, Nov 20, 2009.

  1. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Veeraphol Sahaprom v Hugo Dianzo (bantamweight title)

    I was looking for Dianzo v Paulie Ayala. I remember watching it but not scoring it and Teddy Atlas making a huge deal about what a bum decision it was when they raised Paulie's hand. Wanted to score it but couldn't find it. But I did find his shot at the 118 lb. title against Veeraphol Sahaprom, so here we go.

    Round 1: 10-9 VS
    Round 2: 10-9 VS
    Round 3: 10-9 VS
    Round 4: 10-9 VS
    Round 5: 10-9 Dianzo
    Round 6: 10-9 VS
    Round 7: 10-9 VS
    Round 8: 10-9 VS
    Round 9: 10-10 Even
    Round 10: 10-9 Dianzo
    Round 11: 10-10 Even
    Round 12: 10-9 VS

    Total: 118-112 Sahaprom (actual scores: 118-110, 118-110 and 117-111 all for Sahaprom)

    Although Dianzo had a nice boxing style with sharp punches, Sahaprom simply won it on his harder punching. Everything he threw just had more 'oomph' than Dianzo's work. I do think Dianzo should have concentrated on the body more though. When he did work the body he threw some really nice shots but would then lighten up. Sahaprom a solid winner in a scrappy contest.
     
  2. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Jae Do Yuh v Koichi Wajima II

    I found this fight out there and the film is pristeen. Wish that translated into a better fight, but it didn't. I was mildly impressed with Yuh at first. I thought his sweeping shots to body and head were fairly good, but he soon turned into a meek kitten. Can't believe Wajima lost to him in their first go-round. Yuh was now champion, making his second title defense and gave up his title so timidly. Wajima with his awkward, ungainly style brought it this night. The difference between the two was that Wajima fought with fire. After the first couple of rounds Yuh might get off one punch at a time and then paw and clinch the rest of the time. An unmemorable effort by Yuh in an unmemorable fight but clearly memorable to the Japanese audience. I gave the 3rd round to Yuh and a share of rounds 2 and 11. The other 11 rounds I gave to Wajima before he finished it in the 15th for a score of 69-59 with Wajima leading through 14 rounds. Actual scores were 70-60, 70-57 and 70-66 - which was obviously by the Korean judge - all in favor of Wajima.
     
  3. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Jung Koo Chang v German Torres I

    I will begin by saying, of the fights I have watched of Chang I haven't been as endeared to him as most here are. I got to thinking he just wan't my cup of tea, but I saw this fight out there in its entirety and thought I would give him another go. The first of their series.

    Round 1: 10-9 Chang
    Round 2: 10-9 Chang
    Round 3: 10-10 Even
    Round 4: 10-9 Chang
    Round 5: 9-9 Even (Chang's round but deducted 1 point for use of head)
    Round 6: 10-9 Chang
    Round 7: 10-10 Even (outstanding round)
    Round 8: 10-9 Chang
    Round 9: 10-9 Torres
    Round 10: 10-7 Chang (scores 2 knockdowns)
    Round 11: 10-9 Chang
    Round 12: 9-9 Even (Torres' round but deducted 1 point for use of forearm)

    Total: 117-109 Chang (actual scores: 118-111, 119-108 and 118-108 all for Chang)

    Where to begin? Chang was like an Asian Gene Fullmer. He didn't care where he hit you as long as he hit you. I felt referee Davey Pearl's performance was poor. None moreso than the 4th round where I couldn't believe the way he let Chang continuously through the round hold and hit, rabbit punch, headbutt and kidney punch without a peep from him. Yet, he did caution Torres for elbow use. I thought at that point he was just another official intimidated by the crowd. However, I was stunned to see he finally took a point from Chang in the next round for use of the head. Amazingly, in the 12th, with little in the gas tank left, Chang grapples through the 12th round and after 12 rounds of head-butting from Chang, Pearl finds just cause in the 12th to take a point from Torres for forearm use (because he was trying to hold back Chang's head while grappling). I always get PO'd by officials who seem hell-bent on appeasing the audience. OK, back to the fight. Chang put on a terrific force-of-nature fight. He swarmed and didn't give Torres breathing room. I've often heard from you guys that this was his best performance and it certainly was through ferocity, but I don't think his style would travel well if this fight took place in Vegas or MSG. There would certainly be an issue with point deductions and he may have had to curtail some of his boisterous attack. Still, he was a handful.
     
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  4. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails... Full Member

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    You'd like the third fight better, Scar. It's cleaner (well, cleaner in Chang fashion, anyway) and more a demonstration of Chang's radar and odd Boxing ability (from what I remember). If you don't like the mauling here, then I definitely wouldn't advise the second. Imagine all (and more) the mauling of this one but without the fierce fitness or head-movement - that's the second fight.

    I remember a poster on here, well schooled on Korean Boxing history, said apparently that Chang wasn't actually favourite for this one and everyone was scared of Torres power. I wonder if this affected Chang's strategy. Then again, Chang was always a rough customer despite his talent. Mauling did serve him very well when he needed - he knew how to change the pace.
     
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  5. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Rough, I actually did watch his second fight with Torres about a year ago. This is what I wrote:

    Jung Koo Chang v German Torres II

    Round 1: 10-9 Torres
    Round 2: 10-9 Torres
    Round 3: 10-9 Torres
    Round 4: 10-9 Chang
    Round 5: 10-9 Torres
    Round 6: 10-9 Chang
    Round 7: 10-9 Torres
    Round 8: 10-9 Chang
    Round 9: 10-9 Chang
    Round 10: 10-9 Torres
    Round 11: 10-10 Even
    Round 12: 10-9 Torres

    Total: 116-113 Torres (actual scores: 115-114 and 116-114 both for Chang and a 114-114 for a majority win for Chang)

    I'm unclear if any points were taken from Chang by Arthur Mercante. Twice he made unusual gestures that could be construed as penalization. Once in the 5th round and once in the 7th, but I am unclear. I see that Sweet Scientist scored this sometime back and he too had it for Torres by a 116-113 card, but he showed his 5th round as a 9-9 with no details. Just something I'd like to know. But getting to the fight. I know a lot of guys on here like Chang, but I gotta tell you, he doesn't click with me. I was far more impressed with Torres' combos, straight rights and body shots than Chang's haymakers, which seems to be his principle attack.
     
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  6. Saintpat

    Saintpat Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Hey @scartissue couldn’t let you have all the fun.

    Bobby “Schoolboy” Chacon vs. Danny “Little Red” Lopez, scheduled for 12 rounds at Los Angeles Sports Arena on May 24, 1974.

    Lopez is 23-0 (22), stands 5-8 and weighs 123 1/2 pounds at age 21. He is ranked No. 4 by the WBC.

    Chacon is 23-1 (21), is 5-5 and weighs 126 at age 22. He’s won four in a row since sustaining his only loss, to Ruben Olivares by stoppage for the NABF featherweight crown. Ranked No. 6, he’s a 10-8 favorite.

    The bout draws a crowd of more than 16,000 plus some 2,700 who pay to watch via closed circuit at the nearby Olympic Auditorium. The gate is nearly $250,000. Each fighter is paid $56,000 according to the Los Angeles Times — per an online inflation calculator that’s more than $300,000 in today’s dollars for a non-title fight. That’s how big this fight was. Median family income in the U.S. in 1974 was $11,100 per the Census Bureau. A brand new Cadillac convertible cost $7,800.

    This fight should have come with a Surgeon’s General warning — if your doctor has advised you to avoid excitement, do not watch.

    My scoring:

    Round 1: Chacon 10-9 — It starts as a jabbing contest and surprisingly the shorter Chacon’s is better. By mid-round he’s hitting home with laser-guided right hands and can’t seem to miss with the punch.

    Round 2: Lopez 10-9 — Blistering shots traded, Lopez gets through with some hard rights and works over the Schoolboy on the ropes. Danny is cut over the right eye but it doesn’t appear to be serious.

    Round 3: Chacon 10-9 — Bobby hurts Danny with a right early and out jabs him most of the round, then pours it on with more rights late in the round.

    Round 4: Lopez 10-9 — Danny is relentless, comes on strong and seems to be turning the tide. Looks the stronger man.

    Round 5: Chacon 10-9 — Again, Bobby can’t miss with the right hand. And he throws a bunch of them.

    Round 6: Even, 10-10 — Lopez rakes Chacon along the ropes but Bobby rallies late. Lopez’s eye cut reopens. Bobby is bleeding from the nose by round’s end.

    Round 7: Chacon 10-9 (close) — Both land big rights, Bobby’s body work especially with the left hook edges it on my card.

    Round 8: Chacon 10-9 — Danny is starting to look ragged, all those rights taking their toll.

    Round 9: Chacon rocks Lopez with a big right that drives him to the ropes, then a series of rights with a good left hook mixed in drops Danny to the canvas. Chacon is all over him and referee John Thomas stops it 48 seconds into the round with Lopez sagging along the ropes after being battered all the way across the ring.

    EDIT: I forgot the include the scoring. I used the 10-point must system above but California was using the round system at the time.

    I had it 5-2-1. A few rounds each way were close. Official cards: 7-1 and 6-2 (twice) but that doesn’t reflect how competitive this bout was.

    This is an action fight all the way. Lived up to its billing. It’s a throwback to the days when up-and-comers and contenders would face off and people would pay to make it worth their while. I think if they’d have fought two or three more times each would win at least once.

    Bobby would win the vacant WBC featherweight title in his next fight but lose it to Olivares in his second defense. Lopez would lose two of his next three then reel off seven wins in a row before taking that same WBC championship off David Kotey … and never lose again until Salvador Sanchez comes along.

     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2021
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  7. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Pat, I remember this fight so well. I saw it on about a 3-6 month tape delay back in '74. Strangely, I've never seen it since, which is something I need to remedy. Regarding your statement of when the up and comers and contenders would face off. I know today this seems unusual, but the west coast was bursting at the seams with talent back then and it really was commonplace to see Lopez v Tury Pineda, Pineda against Chacon, Lopez v Art Hafey, Hafey v Olivares, Hafey v Famoso Gomez, Gomez v Lopez, Chacon v Frankie Crawford, etc. Man, I was like a kid in a candy store watching these bouts. Nobody avoided anyone and I long for those days.
     
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  8. Saintpat

    Saintpat Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Had the same situation develop in Philly with all the middleweights facing each other (with Marvin Hagler also in the mix for a time) in a sort of round-robin with Bennie Briscoe, Wille the Worm and Boogaloo Watts.

    What made this possible in the LA scene was the purses — when I did my research I was pretty amazed that two young contenders clashing paid both basically five times the median family income for that time. The fans would show up at the Olympic or LA Sports Arena or later the Forum and for big fights pack the place.

    Top local fighter attractions like Art Aragon and Bobby Chacon for a time and others were sports celebrities in one of the nation’s largest cities, on par with many of the NBA and NFL stars.

    I remember when ESPN got cranked up and didn’t yet have the major sports league deals you’d sometimes flip the channels late at night and find a live fight like Pipino Cuevas-Angel Espada III randomly be coming on with no fanfare. Loved those West Coast shows.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2021
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  9. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I had a hankerin' for a little Gabe Ruelas today.

    Gabe Ruelas v Troy Dorsey

    Round 1: 10-9 Ruelas
    Round 2: 10-10 Even
    Round 3: 10-9 Ruelas
    Round 4: 10-9 Dorsey
    Round 5: 10-9 Ruelas
    Round 6: Ruelas stops Dorsey

    Total through 5 completed rounds: 49-47 Ruelas (actual scores not known)

    Troy Dorsey had a magnificent little engine there, but no punch and tissue-paper thin skin and that formulae doesn't add up against a fighter like Gabe. Troy had brief success with pushing Ruelas to the corner and physically keeping him there, pounding him and keeping him on the defensive, but he couldn't keep him there and his eyes succumbed in the 6th.

    Gabe Ruelas v Arturo Gatti

    Round 1: 10-10 Even
    Round 2: 10-9 Gatti
    Round 3: 10-9 Gatti
    Round 4: 10-9 Ruelas
    Round 5: Gatti drops and stops Ruelas

    Total through 4 completed rounds: 39-38 Gatti (actual scores: 38-38, 38-38 and a 39-37 for Gatti)

    What the Dorsey fight lacked in explosiveness, this made up for. Both fighters were taking turns throwing bombs. But strangely enough, it was Gatti who was the more restrained fighter of the two. He picked his shots cleverly and stopped Gabe in 5. Good fight.
     
  10. Jel

    Jel Reserving the right to be inconsistent Full Member

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    Scar, I remember the Gatti-Ruelas fight well. The timing of it was interesting in terms of Ruelas's career as he was still recovering from the Jimmy Garcia tragedy. He had been overwhelmed by Azunah Nelson after that and appeared to be done, seemingly having had his heart taken out of the game by the Garcia fight... so as much as he lost to Gatti, there was a redemptive element to Gabe's performance in that he showed he still had a fighting heart.
     
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  11. Saintpat

    Saintpat Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    @scartissue @Jel I always thought Gabe was the more natural fighter of the Ruelas brothers, while Rafael looked like a ‘taught’ fighter — a guy who fought kind of mechanically as if he’s doing paint by numbers with the Goosens programming the robot and calling the shots and Rafe trying to go out and do exactly what he’s told. Gabe was more fluid and showed more imagination and willingness to go off script.

    There’s something to be said of each, but as brothers they couldn’t have been more different in build or in how one was gifted and he other one a product of taking to coaching.

    Both were fun to watch and probably maxed out according to their abilities.
     
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  12. Jel

    Jel Reserving the right to be inconsistent Full Member

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    Evander Holyfield v Riddick Bowe 2

    Wow. Haven't seen this since 1993 and it was not only as good as I remembered it, but actually better. More finely balanced than their first fight, this had a real ebb and flow to the rounds. Unfortunately, this fight has been remembered for the fan man incident above everything else and probably gets short-changed in people's memories as a contest because of it. The first fight is remembered for what happened inside the ring (round 10), the second is remembered for what happened just outside it. Which is a shame.

    A couple of notes on my scorecard - I was in disagreement with the judges on the 4th and 12th which were scored unanimously for Holyfield and Bowe respectively. So if I'd fallen in line with those scores I'd have had Holyfield winning by a point.

    1 9-10 (quality start from both fighters)
    2 10-9 (close)
    3 9-10 (corking fight)
    4 9-10 (more fantastic action)
    5 10-9
    6 10-9
    7 10-10 (close. Fan Man round so hard to score. Bowe took the first half before the break, Holy took the second half)
    8 10-9 (superb quality from both fighters but Holy took it. Real ebb and flow to this.)
    9 9-10
    10 9-10 (close)
    11 10-9 (Holyfield just edging it through his will)
    12 10-10 (scrappy finish. Emanuel Steward does an impressive rugby tackle on Holyfield at the end)
    Holyfield 115-115 Bowe
     
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  13. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Park Chan Hee v Shoji Oguma I

    Round 1: 10-9 Park
    Round 2: 10-9 Oguma
    Round 3: 10-10 Even
    Round 4: 10-9 Park
    Round 5: 10-9 Oguma
    Round 6: 10-9 Oguma
    Round 7: 10-9 Oguma*
    Round 8: 10-8 Oguma (scores a knockdown)
    Round 9: Oguma drops and stops Park

    Total through 8 completed rounds: 78-74 Oguma (actual scores: 78-73, 78-77 and 79-75 all for Oguma)

    A very physical fight with the southpaw-orthodox styles just not jiving. Amazing how in the Orient, with the abundance of southpaw fighters, that Park had such an issue here. Oguma fought a very methodical fight, but when he realized the effect his bodyshots were having on Park, he really ramped things up. Man, Park was folding over so visibly that Oguma's corner had to be ecstatic. Like spying a losing hand on your opponent in poker, which was how obvious it was. * Anyways, I had it 78-74 for Oguma through eight, but I'm not sure if any points were taken in the 7th, which turned into a melee after Oguma body-slammed Park and they had to call a halt to the round with the unruly Korean crowd tossing debris into the ring. The 2 American commentators did not mention it, so I don't know. If anyone has knowledge on this, please chime in.
     
  14. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Pat, Damn, I loved seeing this fight again

    Bobby Chacon v Danny Lopez (California scoring)

    Round 1: Chacon
    Round 2: Even
    Round 3: Chacon
    Round 4: Lopez
    Round 5: Chacon
    Round 6: Chacon
    Round 7: Chacon
    Round 8: Chacon
    Round 9: Chacon drops and stops Lopez

    Total through 8 completed rounds: 6-1 Chacon

    Despite the apparent one-sidedness on my scoring, this was one tough fight and Lopez was throwing some beauties when he had Chacon against the ropes. But Bobby was not to be denied this night. Outstanding fight. Thanks for bringing it to our attention again, Pat.

     
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  15. Saintpat

    Saintpat Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    No scores here, but watched Pipino Cuevas destroy Clyde Gray in the third defense of his WBA welterweight title at the Olympic Auditorium in 1977.

    Cuevas rocked Gray with a right and unloaded some heavy leather in the first but the veteran Canadian used his survival skills of footwork and just a bit of selective holding to survive. Gray landed a few good rights which, to his detriment, must have encouraged him, as he came out in the second trying to get Pipino’s respect and maybe back him down and give him pause.

    Good plan. Didn’t work.

    Cuevas rattled him with a hook about a minute into the round and was relentless in unloading his full arsenal — which is to say, scythe-like hooks and the occasional right. He battered Gray on the ropes and opened a cut over his right eye, then landed a couple of really solid left hooks that had Gray teetering. The finishing punches didn’t really land cleanly (this happened in some of Pipino’s other defenses) but Clyde was already wrecked and went down for the full 10 at 1:28 of the second.

    Gray had unsuccessfully challenged Angel Espada and Jose Napoles, going the distance with both, and still had game. But Pipino was a force of nature.
     
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