the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mantequilla, Nov 20, 2009.

  1. Jel

    Jel Reserving the right to be inconsistent Full Member

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    I had to get in on the action with this one after reading the write ups from Luf and Scar. This was a corking fight and very, very close. Cuadras was largely in control over the first half as Estrada started to get into gear from the 6th. The knockdown in the 10th was the difference on the cards for the judges but I couldn't split them. It could have gone either way it was that tight and Michael Buffer was clearly conflicted as he announced the winner as Carlos Estrada! Cue Cuadras celebrating before Buffer had to reannounce the winner as Juan Estrada - what a farce. Not the ending that either fighter deserved because this was class all the way through.

    Juan Francisco Estrada v Carlos Cuadras 1

    1 9-10
    2 9-10 (close)
    3 9-10 (very close)
    4 9-10
    5 9-10
    6 10-9 (close)
    7 10-9
    8 10-9
    9 9-10
    10 10-8 (crucial moment - Estrada puts Cuadras down and takes a clear two point round)
    11 10-9
    12 10-10 (feels like a cop out to score the final round even but it really was nip and tuck throughout and could have gone either way. I couldn't separate them)

    Estrada 114-114 Cuadras
     
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  2. Jel

    Jel Reserving the right to be inconsistent Full Member

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    Juan Francisco Estrada v Carlos Cuadras 2

    If their first fight was an intelligent tussle which slowly ramped up the action as the fight wore on and finished with a crescendo, this was a straightforward war from the opening bell. Estrada wasn't going to make the same mistake he made in the first fight of being too conservative with his punch output. He also worked the body much more in this fight to try and take Cuadras's legs from him and it worked.

    But not before he found himself losing the first three rounds on my card and being knocked down as well. Estrada came back hard over the next three though and the two fighters exchanged fairly evenly for the next couple of rounds before the momentum finally swung to and stayed with Estrada.

    There were some tremendous rounds with great exchanges and this was a much more brutal fight than their first encounter - the science they displayed there was replaced with more brawling action and their faces showed the impact. Estrada, though, was ultimately a little too tough for Cuadras to handle.

    Just a great fight.

    1 9-10 (fast start, good action)
    2 9-10 (Cuadras has started like he did in the first fight)
    3 8-10 (Estrada down)
    4 10-9 (great round)
    5 10-9
    6 10-9 (close)
    7 9-10 (close)
    8 10-10 (awesome stuff)
    9 10-9
    10 10-9 (Estrada seems stronger than Cuadras and his punches are having more of an impact)
    (95-95)
    11 Estrada TKO Cuadras (Estrada ends this brutal fight with two KDs and forces the stoppage with his follow up assault)
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2021
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  3. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Jel, can you provide a link to this fight? Can't seem to find it out there.
     
  4. Jel

    Jel Reserving the right to be inconsistent Full Member

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    Hi Scar, it"s not on YouTube, unfortunately. It's on Dailymotion. If you put 'Juan Estrada v Carlos Cuadras 2' into Google it should show up in the list of videos. Be warned, though, the video gets interrupted every few minutes by two 30 second repeated adverts which was really annoying. YouTube is so much better than Dailymotion to watch fights.
     
  5. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Thanks, Jel, I will check it out. In the meantime, I checked out a couple of Shane Mosley rematches that I wanted to see, which were both, at least, entertaining in a 'punch-up' sort of way. The first was:

    Shane Mosley v Fernando Vargas II

    This was an immediate rematch of their highly competitive first bout. In this edition, however, Vargas was fighting like a creaking old battleship. Mosley was getting off with pretty much anything he wanted. His speed jab, body punches and the overhand right that Vargas couldn't get out of the way of. Fernando did pick up the pace in the 5th and 6th, but Mosley ended it in the 6th with a left hook that dropped Vargas heavily. Although Fernando did get up, it was obvious he was in no condition and it was stopped rightly after the first couple of Mosley blows. Every round to Mosley for a 50-45 score like all three judges.

    Shane Mosley v Ricardo Mayorga II

    Amazing that Mosley and Mayorga were still fighting in 2015 at the age of 44 and 42 respectively. Nowhere near as wild and close as their first contest 7 years earlier, but they went at it on their senior's tour. Y'know, for all Mayorga's vitriol and controversial and nasty statements, the dude complained about EVERYTHING during this bout. Whether it be headwork, feigning low blows, kidney blows, whatever, he complained about it. Mosley was subjected to Mayorga's wild rushes and recklessness with where his punches may land, and just got on with the bout. But that's Mayorga's schtick I guess. Anyways, I only gave Ricardo a share of the 4th round before Shane ended it at the end of the 6th with Shane leading 50-46 on my card. Old Jack Mosley was giving Shane good advice during the bout about going to the body, saying he couldn't take it there. And it looked like good advice as Mayorga had a fleshy torso. But hang on, that's not the end of it. Mayorga went down at the end of the 6th complaining it was a low blow but was counted out. I wasn't sure myself until seeing the replay. Nope! Clean left hook to the body. Mayorga went out like he engaged in this bout. By complaining.
     
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  6. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Jel, checked this out. Outstanding.

    Juan Francisco Estrada v Carlos Cuadras II

    Round 1: 10-9 Cuadras
    Round 2: 10-9 Estrada
    Round 3: 10-8 Cuadras (scores a knockdown)
    Round 4: 10-9 Estrada
    Round 5: 10-9 Estrada
    Round 6: 10-9 Estrada
    Round 7: 10-9 Cuadras
    Round 8: 10-9 Estrada
    Round 9: 10-9 Estrada
    Round 10: 10-10 Even
    Round 11: Estrada drops Cuadras twice and the ref stops the contest

    Total through 10 completed rounds: 96-94 Estrada (actual scores unknown)

    I can't say anything about this fight that I didn't already say about their first fight. There was no change of gameplan or altered strategy. They simply resumed where they had left off in their previous fight. It's like they had a template and said, 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it!' And we were the winners for it. BTW, Jel, you were right about those ads interrupting on Daily Motion. Infuriating.
     
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  7. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

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    I love that Estrada is getting some love in here.
     
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  8. Saintpat

    Saintpat Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    He was great in CHiPs.
     
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  9. Jel

    Jel Reserving the right to be inconsistent Full Member

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    He's a hell of a good fighter. I missed the whole rivalry between him, Gonzalez and Rungvisai so am trying to catch up on it now. I love that they have all fought each other and all more than once (and Cuadras has fought them all too). If you know a decent place to watch Estrada-Gonzalez 2, I'd love to know. There's a version on YouTube but the camera is all over the place and makes it hard to watch. I started watching it on Dailymotion and had the aforementioned ad problem, which is a hindrance to scoring and enjoying the fight.
     
  10. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

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    DAZN is the only place with good, reliable footage.
     
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  11. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Emile Griffith v Jorge Fernandez I (NY rounds basis)

    Good, hard 10 rounder out of St. Nick's Arena. If wishing to watch this and you can't find it, Youtube has it mis-labeled as Griffith v Florentino Fernandez I.

    Round 1: Even
    Round 2: Griffith
    Round 3: Griffith
    Round 4: Fernandez
    Round 5: Fernandez
    Round 6: Griffith
    Round 7: Even
    Round 8: Fernandez
    Round 9: Griffith
    Round 10: Even

    Total: 4-3-3 Griffith (actual scores: 2 scores of 5-4-1 for Griffith and a score of 6-4 Fernandez for a split win for Griffith)

    I wouldn't have a problem with a Fernandez win or a draw, which may have been the best verdict as this was so close. When Griffith stayed on the outside, his jab and combos were beautiful, but clearly that wasn't for him as he always ended up on the inside with Fernandez, who, in typical Argentine fashion, was so strong with his clubbing punches. I really think Fernandez with his strength and experience (70 fights compared to about 19 for Griffith) really should have concentrated on the body in the many clinches, but I really didn't see him working the midsection until about the 8th. If I was watching this in hi-def I have no doubt I would have a completely different score. A lot gets missed on the graininess of old film. For instance, I read the boxrec report after this fight and it mentioned how Griffith's eye was closed at the fight's end. Man, I couldn't even tell without that crispness to the vid. One other thing to mention was the commentator Jimmy Powers. I've heard his commentating before and he has a great voice for calling fights. As opposed to the 'teams' they have today calling a fight where one fighter will land a jab and the team starts screaming, "He's hurt!". Powers, by himself, let's a round like the 4th - where Fernandez stunned Griffith like 3 times - unfold without saying anything and then sort of recaps it at the end was interesting. I don't know if I like that or the screams of today. Maybe something in the middle.
     
  12. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Nestor Garza v Kozo Ishii (super bantamweight title)

    I recently watched Garza against Enrique Sanchez and was very impressed and quite intrigued over seeing another of his bouts. And then I found this utter gem. Strap yourselves in for this one.

    Round 1: 10-9 Ishii
    Round 2: 10-9 Garza
    Round 3: 10-10 Even
    Round 4: 10-10 Even
    Round 5: 10-9 Garza
    Round 6: 10-9 Ishii
    Round 7: 10-9 Ishii
    Round 8: 10-9 Garza
    Round 9: 10-9 Garza
    Round 10: 10-9 Garza
    Round 11: 10-10 Even
    Round 12: Garza drops and stops Ishii

    Total through 11 completed rounds: 107-105 Garza (actual scores: 107-103 Garza, 107-102 Ishii and 105-105 Even)

    I was exhausted watching this utter slug-fest with the many changes in fortunes that took place. I noted along the way that the 7th was the best round but the 4th and 8th weren't too shabby either. And the 11th was amazing as they were both half-dead and still trying to take the other's head off. What made it such a tantalizing slug-fest was the fact that it wasn't a fight where wild haymakers were being thrown, but precision and accurate head-rockers. Garza was more skilled but Ishii was stronger with heavier hands. Guys, do yourselves a favor. I can't sell this one enough to you.
     
  13. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Everyone listen up. It's a great fight where you are enthralled and are figuratively rabid about seeing it based solely on a fine write-up such as this for a fight between two guys you know nothing about.
     
  14. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Nestor Garza v Clarence 'Bones' Adams (super bantamweight title)

    With old Tom cooking in the oven I just couldn't resist another Nestor Garza fight. I found his title fight with Bones Adams but was reminded of something my Pops always said to me when we were watching the fights. "No matter how good you are, there's always someone on there that's better."

    Round 1: 10-8 Adams (scores a knockdown)
    Round 2: 10-9 Adams
    Round 3: 10-9 Garza
    Round 4: 10-9 Adams
    Round 5: 10-8 Adams (scores a knockdown)
    Round 6: 10-9 Adams
    Round 7: 10-9 Adams
    Round 8: 10-9 Adams
    Round 9: 10-9 Garza
    Round 10: 10-10 Even
    Round 11: 10-9 Garza
    Round 12: 10-9 Garza

    Total: 116-111 Adams (actual scores: 116-110, 116-110 and 118-108 all for Adams)

    Man, I gotta tell ya, the first 3/4 of this fight really was a master-class performance by Bones Adams. Strong as an ox, an outstanding ring general and his counter-punching wasn't thrown singular, but in combos. I only think Garza came into the fight late because Adams took his foot off the gas the last 4 rounds. If Garza could have learned to jab his way in rather than charge in, he may have had a better chance here. But as it was, he was just an open target to Adams' counters when charging in with reckless abandon. Not the scorcher that Garza v Ishii was, but a decent fight and an outstanding performance by Adams.
     
  15. Jel

    Jel Reserving the right to be inconsistent Full Member

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    Nestor Garza v Kozo Ishii

    Scar, I had to watch this one after your write up.

    Maybe the last great fight of the 90s (coming as it did in late November 1999) and certainly one of the most unheralded, you don't see this super bantamweight clash mentioned on best-of-the-decade type lists but this was a war from start to finish, a bit like a smaller version of Corrales-Castillo. I personally enjoyed it a lot more than Ayala-Tapia, The Ring's FOTY in 1999.

    Our cards are a little different and I checked the judges RBR scores on boxrec and there was plenty of divergence of opinion there too, particularly over the early rounds. My impression was that Garza was starting to wear Ishii down over the last few rounds so while the knockdown in the 12th seemed like it happened suddenly, it was the kind of fight where the accumulation of punishment over the rounds was likely to take its toll on one or other of the fighters eventually, and that sudden impact was on Ishii.

    Super bantamweight has had an incredible number of gruelling and memorable fights and this is up there with the best of them.

    1 9-10
    2 10-9
    3 10-9
    4 9-10 (brutal stuff)
    5 9-10
    6 10-9
    7 9-10 (Crazy action. This feels like a super bantamweight version of Corrales-Castillo)
    8 10-10 (more wildness)
    9 10-9 (close)
    10 10-9 (close)
    11 10-9
    (106-104)
    11 Garza TKO Ishii (Garza puts Ishii down early in the round with a left hook and then goes after him until the ref eventually has to intervene)