the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mantequilla, Nov 20, 2009.

  1. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Dude, here is how I saw it. And as I wrote afterwards, a lot of these rounds could go either way. A tightness that reflects in our scores.

    Michael Nunn v Iran Barkley

    Round 1: 10-10 Even
    Round 2: 10-9 Nunn
    Round 3: 10-9 Barkley
    Round 4: 10-9 Barkley
    Round 5: 10-9 Nunn
    Round 6: 10-9 Nunn
    Round 7: 10-10 Even
    Round 8: 10-9 Nunn
    Round 9: 10-9 Barkley
    Round 10: 10-9 Barkley
    Round 11: 10-9 Nunn
    Round 12: 10-9 Nunn

    Total: 116-114 Nunn (actual scores: 114-114, 115-113 and 116-113 for a majority decision for Nunn)

    What made me think of this fight was a memory that crossed my mind where Bob Arum was being interviewed post-fight and almost screaming, "Michael Nunn did not win that fight!" I believe he was promoting him at the time and after the Kalambay fight, great things were expected of him and this was not it. Today I watched a telecast aired by British TV but Al Bernstein was commentating. After the decision was announced the British TV presenter stated something like Arum wanted to drop Nunn for lack of entertainment value. And I kinda agree. Nunn simply was not an heir apparent to Hagler or Leonard. His punches were taps to the viewer - maybe they looked better at ringside - but speeding around the ring, tapping away at his opponent and fighting the last minute of several of these rounds just wasn't doing it for me. I scored for Nunn against the aging, limited Barkley, but there were several rounds that could've gone either way. Regardless, I agree with Arum on lack of entertainment value with a Michael Nunn fight.
     
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  2. Philly161

    Philly161 "Fundamentals are the crutch of the talentless" Full Member

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    Yeah it was not the most entertaining fight, especially considering Iran was trying to make it one, as he always did.

    It's interesting we have pretty different scorecards round-by-round (only agreed on half the rounds) with pretty similar final scores. Scoring is so subjective.
     
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  3. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Agree on Nunn. I always rooted against him at least in part because he seemed to want to let the audience know how bored he was with the proceedings as if it was all somehow beneath him. Right down to his facial expression.
     
  4. Jel

    Jel Reserving the right to be inconsistent Full Member

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    Guys, this is what I wrote about Nunn and this fight a couple of years ago:

    Michael Nunn v Iran Barkley

    Apparently this fight was promoted as Thunder in the Night but it would have been more accurately described as Pissy Rain.

    Wherever there is entertainment in boxing, wherever there is great action, wherever there are fun-filled fights with furious exchanges of meaningful punches, Michael Nunn will NOT be there. Second to None? Second to Fun more like.

    1 10-9 (close. Bad tempered start - scrappy)
    2 10-9 (close)
    3 10-9 (better from Nunn after the first two scrappy rounds, he has Barkley at distance now)
    4 10-9
    5 10-9
    6 10-10 (**** fight)
    7 10-9
    8 9-10 (Nunn clowning and showing slick defense but not throwing or landing anything meaningful)
    9 10-9
    10 9-10
    11 9-10 (close. Nunn is avoiding punches but not throwing much. Barkley landed the best punch of the round and that was enough to take it)
    12 10-9 (thank god that's over)

    Nunn 117-112 Barkley
     
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  5. Fogger

    Fogger Well-Known Member Full Member

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    You give a very nice summation both about the fight and the fighting styles of the combatants.
     
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  6. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Manuel Medina v Tom 'Boom-Boom' Johnson I (featherweight title)

    Round 1: 10-9 Johnson
    Round 2: 10-9 Johnson
    Round 3: 10-10 Even
    Round 4: 10-9 Johnson
    Round 5: 10-9 Medina
    Round 6: 10-9 Medina
    Round 7: 9-9 Even (Scored for Medina but loses a point for a low blow)
    Round 8: 10-10 Even
    Round 9: Head butt by Johnson opens a cut that caused the Doc to stop the bout and go to the scorecards.

    Total through 8 completed rounds: 77-76 Johnson (actual scores: 76-75, 79-75 and 78-73 all for Medina)

    This bout was recommended from someone on another site. To tell you the truth, although they were both game and scrappy, I wouldn't be recommending it. I wouldn't say avoid it either as it had its moments. I didn't think Medina really started doing anything until he went crazy to the body starting in the 5th. Man, there were moments when Johnson was looking to cave in before coming back in the 8th. But the scores got to me. I could clearly see the 76-75 for Medina, but those last 2 scores were ridiculous. They did not reflect what was going on in the ring.
     
  7. Philly161

    Philly161 "Fundamentals are the crutch of the talentless" Full Member

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    Jimmy Young vs George Foreman

    Round 1: 10-9 Young
    Round 2: 10-9 Young
    Round 3: 10-8 Young. Foreman lost a point for rough tactics.
    Round 4: 10-9 Young. Foreman is so disinterested. Not surprising this is his last fight of his first career.
    Round 5: 10-9 Foreman. George landed some good body shots and jabs that fight and Young ran too much.
    Round 6: 10-9 Young
    Round 7: 10-9 Foreman. Big round for Foreman. Almost a 10-8 round but then Young came on at the end. Great round.
    Round 8: 10-9 Young
    Round 9: 10-9 Young
    Round 10: 10-9 Young. Foreman is gassed
    Round 11: 10-9 Young
    Round 12: 10-8 Young.

    My Card: 118-108 Young.

    Actual cards: 118-111, 115-114, 116-112 all for Young.

    I thought Young won a lot wider than 2 of the cards
     
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  8. Dynamicpuncher

    Dynamicpuncher Well-Known Member Full Member

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    James Scott vs Yaqui Lopez

    1 Scott
    2 Lopez
    3 Scott
    4 Scott
    5 Scott
    6 Lopez
    7 Scott
    8 Scott
    9 Scott
    10 Scott

    98-92 Scott

    Decisive win for Scott, Lopez fought the wrong fight. He kept going back in a straight line against a swarmer, allowing Scott to dictate the fight and keep the forward momentum. Unless your a master boxer or defensive master, i feel like at times you have to stand your ground and throw hurtful punches. So the swarmer isn't getting that forward momentum and making you fight passive. And to Lopez's credit he did at times fight back and stand his ground in the first 6 rounds atleast, but just not often enough and Lopez could never discourage or stop, Scott's forward momentum and that was the story of the fight.

    Ken Norton was commentating and thought Scott would beat Marvin Johnson, i don't agree especially in a 10 rounder where Johnson's sometimes suspect stamina would not come into play IMO. Scott would also not be able to bully Johnson, and it would be the opposite with Johnson actually making Scott back up, and that's how you beat Scott like Martin and Qawi did.

    Styles make fights and Scott did well against boxers like Yaqui Lopez, Eddie Mustafa Muhammad, but i don't think he beats the likes of Matthew Saad Muhammad, Marvin Johnson.
     
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  9. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Here's a dump of the fights I watched during my exile.

    Jermell Charlo: 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10
    Vanes Martirosyan: 1, 2, 3, 4

    Nothing happens first 4 really, just Chell back pedalling and Vanes walking him down. The defence of Mell wasn't enough for me to score him the rounds and his punches weren't slick enough to out do the pressing of Vanes.

    I'm unashamedly an aggression scorer and you know what, I don't care. If a round is close, the guy trying to win the round gets my vote. These 4 were all very close but why would I give the round to the man running away?

    Round 5 sees Mell start to sure up his jab and put some mustard on it which halts the march of Vanes and gives him his first round on my card at the half way point.

    Round 6 sees Charlo boxing beautifully, using good footwork, countering well, this is a good round for him and the first time it looks like there's a class difference between the two fighters.

    Round 6 onwards and the rounds were all very very close again, but I felt Charlo edged them out as he seemed to land the cleaner harder shots to me and wasn't just giving ground the way he did in the first 4. What a tough fight to score. Rounds 3,4,7,8,9,10 all close rounds that could have gone the other way.

    Even though I scored it rbr for Charlo, the UD for him seemed a bit off to me. A draw would have been a fair result here.

    But as it is, I had Charlo nicking it in a very close victory.

    96-94

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    Jermell Charlo vs Erickson Lubin

    This is the first ranked opponent Charlo faced since winning the vacant title, yet he's already classed as a world champion with a successful defence under his belt. Stuff like that annoys me about boxing, it really does.

    The fight itself is a bit scrappy Lubin tries to force the pace and rough Charlo up a bit, Charlo tries to hold his ground and not go on the back foot, and nothing really happens, until something happens. Charlo misses with a double jab, steps inside with an uppercut thay seemingly glances, but Lubin drops like he's been shot, and the ref waves off the count. Incredible ending.

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    Jermell Charlo: 1,2, 3*, 9*, 10, 12
    Austin Trout: 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 11

    The Charlo brother both hold belts in this division, which was history for twins, blah blah blah. Both have shown a reluctance to face the best so far, although Jermalls resume did grown with hindsight. Jermell is here facing Trout who's already lost to his brother and Hurd. At this point Jermall has left the division and Jermell is talking about unifying, but he has to to overcome Trout first who looks to be on the slide, although he is always a formidable opponent.

    The fight starts like Trout is an old fighter. He's trying to defend and counter on the back foot, but he's not really able to time our outland Charlo and spends the first three rounds running, ultimately getting dropped by a rush attack from Charlo. 3 rounds in and 4 points down. Trout has a lot to do here.

    Round 4 and Trout has woken up a bit. He looks slick as hell, defending well and timing Charlo, beating him to the punch. Good recovery round by Trout. Rounds 5, 6 and 7 all follow this same pattern of Trout out boxing Charlo who is looking a bit hapless now as the fight levels up on my scorecard.

    Round 8 sees Charlo again comfortably out boxed and for the first time tonight Trout is the one who's winning on points.

    Charlo really needed something to change and at the start of round 9, it does, he drops Trout with pretty much the first punch thrown for a huge 2 points which sees him back ahead on my card. Very much needed as well, Trout finished the round strong and would probably have took were it not for the knockdown. A knockdown which replays show was behind the ear, so there's some controversy here. But not for the first time in boxing, it is what it is, a 10-8 round for Mell.

    Round 10 sees Mell come out very aggressively and land some big shots. He fights at a pace Trout can't live with here and we've had a seemingly big momentum shift.

    Going into the championship rounds it's 5 rounds a piece but Charlo has a 2 point kd advantage.

    Round 11 sees Charlo again try to bowl over Trout with aggression, but Trout hasn't quite finished yet, he times and counters Charlo repeatedly to halt his forward march and takes the round making it 6-5 Trout, with Charlo 1 point up.

    Round 12 is very hard to split, I give Charlo the slight edge meaning he nicks the round and thus nicks the fight.

    Like Vanes this is one that very easily could have been scored the other way.

    114-112

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    Jermell Charlo: 3, 5, 7, 11, 12
    Tony Harrison: 1, 2, 4, 6, 8, 9, 10

    What a strange fight this was. Harrison didn't seem to be doing anything particularly well, but he was able to time Charlo round after round. Every so often Charlo got through with some big shots which swung rounds in his direction, but by and large I felt Harrison was able to dictate this fight at quite a slow pace.

    His shots didn't look particularly quick, or particularly hard, but they were just timed well enough to constantly make Charlo reset himself.

    Harrison did fade and I had Charlo taking the championship rounds as he finished strong, but he'd given away too many rounds early on.

    The writing has been on the wall for Charlo over his career and he's been much closer to being upset than he has to being P4P rated. But now he's lost his zero he van actually take those chances against the best in the division and prove himself.

    Right now you would have to say he's a level below Hurd, as proven by their mutual opposition. Although Hurd either has just or is just about to lose himself, so the division is wide open.

    113-115

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    Tony Harrison vs Jermell Charlo 2

    This fight follows the same pattern as the previous fight, Harrison being able to almost completely nullify the strategy of Charlo with his well placed counter shots. The difference here was Charlo had a bit extra mustard on his left hooks. He dropped Harrison in round 2 but then lost pretty much every round until he dropped him again in round 11 with the same punch again, only this time Harrison didn't have his powers of recovery and Charlo could smell blood and he didn't let Harrison off the hook as the ref waved off the fight. And Charlo had reclaimed his title.

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    Jermell Charlo vs Jeison Rosario

    Hurd had lost to Williams who then lost to Rosario meaning this was a big 3 belt unification fight and a fight between the top two LMW fighters in the world.

    Charlo starts the fight on fire, dropping Rosario in the first round and being able to impose himself physically.

    But then Rosario got himself back into the fight and was able to walk Charlo down and take the mantly of ring general. Charlo resorts to his frustrating style of back pedalling and winging power shots sporadically, which obviously does cumulative damage but throws rounds away with reckless abandon.

    As the rounds go on, Charlo is falling way behind on the cards when he drops Rosario hard at the end of the 6th. The 7th goes back to Rosario but then Charlo lands a jab to the body in round 8 that looks like it must have come via a sawn off shotgun the way Rosario drops and is unable to get up to beat the count. Another insane ending to a fight.

    In all these fights I've watched of Charlo, Jermell wins very few clean rounds unless he drops his opponent.

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  10. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Dump part 2

    Jermell Charlo: 2, 10, 11, 12
    Brian Castaño: 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9

    At the half way point its clear that this is a horrific style match up for Charlo. His passive fighting from the ropes approach relies on him being the bigger man, the harder puncher and the better timing. Here he is just being bullied against the ropes and not having any real success in the first half of the fight. He hasn't really looked close to hurting Castaño so is just being out worked round after round. His style has become reliant on hurting his opponent now and he doesn't look like doing that so far.

    The second half of the fight continues in the same fashion, with Castaño walking Charlo down and bullying him against the ropes, and this sees Castaño sweep the rounds up until about a minute into the 10th, Charlo hurts Castaño for the first time and forces him to retreat, Charlo sniffing the finish punishes Charlo around the ring for a dominant round victory.

    Rounds 11 and 12 were fought at a slower pace and Charlo was able to fund some good success hurting Castaño and forcing him backwards on the retreat.

    I have it 112-116 and can't for the life of me understand anyone genuinely thinking there are 6 rounds Charlo won here. Awful decision.

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    Jermell Charlo vs Brian Castaño 2.

    This fight went very much the same way as the first. Castaño bullied Charlo around the ring until the point when Charlo hurt him, but only this time he hurt him enough to drop him and close the show.

    Same old Charlo, loses rounds unless one of his hooks off the ropes hurts his opponent and here that's the case again.

    But he has knocked out every belt holder in the division. Might not be a P4P skilled boxer in the traditional sense, but his results speak for themselves.

    Any fight that goes the distance will never be won clearly by him, but going the distance is something a lot of fighters now fail to do.

    Excellent win here by Charlo against the biggest threat he could face in the division.

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    Liston vs Bethea

    Liston is currently sat with a record of 18-1 and has avenged his only defeat. The year is 1958 and this prospect has a bit of a reputation but is yet to prove it in the ring.

    Bethea has lost 4 fights recently but 3 of those were split decisions to high ranked opponents and the other was a clear loss to Harold Johnson. So he is no slouch and is a good test for the the step up in competition.

    Liston cuts through him like a knife through butter. He immediately establishes his jab, and very quickly starts landing bombs from mid range. Bethea is known as durable and has never been knocked out, only being dropped once by Valdes I believe. But Liston anhilates him dropping him hard in the first and then immediately jumping on him after the count to force the ref into waving it off.

    With this victory Liston enters the top 10 for the first time.

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    Liston vs Williams

    This is the battle between two guys with a fearsome reputation and a thin resume. The definition of high risk low reward.

    Williams starts the first round like a man possessed, he uses his reach and speed advantage to land left hooks over and over, pushing Liston back and looking very much in control.

    In the second Liston strays to jab with Williams which he easily wins the contest for, this takes Williams right out of his rhythm and allows Liston to establish a good mid range. From there it almost seems inevitable as Liston begins to chop down Williams with big heavy power shots, that stray to increase in volume as the round goes on.

    Round 3 sees Liston really open up and he drops Williams twice forcing the referee to end the contest.

    With this win Liston really puts his name on the map, and so begins the his "reign" of being ducked by the champ.

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  11. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Luf, great seeing you back in action again.
     
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  12. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Good to be back my man.
     
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  13. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Luf’s been crazy busy.

    Keep ‘em coming. Haven’t had time to watch many fights myself lately but I cherish this thread and all the contributions. I read each one — sometimes this is my work break activity, other times it’s my wind-down from work.

    Actually, tonight Showtime showed Wilder-Breazeale on replay. First-round KO with a lethal right hand, so no score. But Wilder’s form here looks good — used the jab to set things up, threw the right straight as an arrow — and he took care of business in brutal fashion.
     
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  14. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    George, checked this out today. You're right. An enjoyable fight.

    Brian Viloria v Juan Francisco Estrada (flyweight title)

    Round 1: 10-10 Even
    Round 2: 10-9 Estrada
    Round 3: 10-9 Viloria
    Round 4: 10-9 Estrada
    Round 5: 10-9 Estrada
    Round 6: 10-10 Even
    Round 7: 10-9 Estrada
    Round 8: 10-9 Estrada
    Round 9: 10-9 Estrada
    Round 10: 10-9 Estrada
    Round 11: 10-9 Estrada
    Round 12: 10-9 Estrada

    Total: 119-111 Estrada (actual scores: 117-111 and 116-111 both for Estrada and an eyebrow raising 115-113 for Viloria for a split win for Estrada)

    This was a magnificent bout with hard-banging on both sides. Viloria was the harder puncher, but Estrada - who wasn't exactly a powder-punch puncher himself - had such an assortment of punches that I cannot see how a judge actually went with Viloria. Estrada was banging that left hook to the liver from round 1 and it paid dividends over the last 4 rounds as he had Viloria hurting. A terrific bout. Thanks for the heads-up, George.
     
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  15. Jel

    Jel Reserving the right to be inconsistent Full Member

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    I’ve got a whole bunch of fights from the 2010s to feast on over the next few weeks and I’ve added this to the list.
     
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