the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mantequilla, Nov 20, 2009.

  1. Vic The Gambler

    Vic The Gambler Member Full Member

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    I gave the first round to Canelo but apart from that I agreed with the rest of your scoring, giving Canelo a 115-113 win.
     
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  2. Dynamicpuncher

    Dynamicpuncher Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I thought this fight was the best argument Canelo had made, in all 3 fights to actually deserving a decision against Golovkin. And whilst I scored it a draw, I think it would be stretch to have Golovkin the winner, unless you gave him every close round.
     
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  3. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Carmen Basilio D10 Pierre Langlois 1

    This was held in Syracuse, which was good thinking on Basilio's part. Anywhere else, this goes down as a loss.

    Basilio is a little guy. Small for a welterweight, but absolutely diminutive as a middleweight. Yet he always fought "big." Aggressive, combative, but still with a learned approach belying his rough-hewn features. He bobbed and weaved nicely, threw an almost patented right-to-the-body-left-hook-to-the-head combination that never failed him, and had a great sense of ebb and flow and of distance. Here though, he was stymied by the equally learned frenchman.

    Langlois was hardly the most graceful-looking fighter of his age (or any) but he knew how to box. He knew how to nullify attacks, and was great and judging and utilizing distance. With those tools, he bewildered Basilio, I thought. As the rounds mounted, he seemed to begin to understand that he was the bigger, stronger fighter, and started mauling Basilio to the point of actually tossing the hometown guy around the ring, much to the chagrin of the crowd. He was smart to do it though, as it buoyed him. Langlois began to land more and more effectively as the rounds mounted, and even opened a cut over Basilio's right eye in the process.

    Carmen was game and never stopped trying, but he just had no answer for a guy that was bigger, stroner, and a better technical boxer as well as a fighter who seemed more and more willing to bully him around the ring a bit.

    Ruby Goldstein proved himself about as adept a judge as he was a referee, scoring it 5-4-1 for Basilio, and the lone judge favoring Langlois only had it 5-4-1 for the frenchman, the other card being a draw. I had it a bit wider at 6-3-1 for Langlois, as follows:

    1. Langlois
    2. Even
    3. Basilio
    4. Langlois
    5. Langlois
    6. Basilio
    7. Langlois
    8. Basilio
    9. Langlois
    10. Langlois
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2022
  4. Fogger

    Fogger Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Thank you for mentioning debatable rounds. If the three debatable rounds you gave to Golovkin went to Canelo the score would have been 117-111 for Alvarez. If the debatable round you gave to Canelo went the other way the score would have been 115-113 for Golovkin. My point is that in many fights there can be a large number of reasonable to reasonable-ish scores that have nothing to do with the fight being fixed or judges not knowing what they are doing. Now, if we can just teach that to a lot of the website members.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2022
  5. Philly161

    Philly161 "Fundamentals are the crutch of the talentless" Full Member

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    Mike Tyson vs Quick Tillis

    NY round system

    Round 1: Tyson
    Round 2: Tyson. Close.
    Round 3: Tyson
    Round 4: Tyson. Knocks Tillis down at end of round.
    Round 5: Tyson. Close.
    Round 6: Even
    Round 7: Tillis. Close
    Round 8: Tillis. Close
    Round 9: Even. Dreadful round.
    Round 10: Tyson

    My Score: 7-1-2 Tyson (deducted one round from Tillis for the KD)

    Someone on here told me I was misremembering this fight as more one-sided for Tyson than it was and that some people thought Tillis deserved to win. I suppose if I had given ever even and close round to Tillis. He survived well and Tyson seemed a little frustrated for the 2nd half of the fight but still pretty dominant Tyson win imo.
     
  6. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Azumah Nelson v Marcos Villasana II (featherweight title)

    Round 1: 10-9 Nelson
    Round 2: 10-9 Nelson
    Round 3: 10-9 Nelson
    Round 4: 10-9 Nelson
    Round 5: 10-9 Nelson (I scored this round Even but Villasana had a point deducted for a low blow)
    Round 6: 10-9 Villasana
    Round 7: 10-9 Nelson
    Round 8: 10-9 Villasana (the bell appears to ring one minute early - short round)
    Round 9: 10-9 Nelson
    Round 10: 10-10 Even
    Round 11: 10-8 Nelson (Villasana is docked another point for a low blow)
    Round 12: 10-9 Nelson

    Total: 118-110 Nelson (actual scores: 117-110, 117-111 and 118-108 all for Nelson)

    With no tags at all on Ironbar's video and the telecast in Spanish, I actually thought I was watching their first fight and thought to myself, "This is strange on why there would be a rematch." The joke's on me. I just don't like to read too much on a fight that might influence me. But Nelson dominated the fight really, although every so often Villasana would rip him to the body on the ropes. Gotta give the Mexican credit, he never stopped trying. But now I have to see their first fight.
     
  7. Vic The Gambler

    Vic The Gambler Member Full Member

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    Ike Ibeabuchi vs Marion Wilson

    I decided to watch this fight after another poster told me that Wilson stunned Ike at some stage with some good shots, after I described MW as a journeyman who came into fights with contenders and future contenders simply to survive.
    And to be fair for a couple of rounds Wilson gave Ibeabuchi a few things to think about!

    Round One: Ibeabuchi 10-9
    Round Two: Wilson 10-9
    Round Three: Wilson 10-9
    Round Four: Ibeabuchi 10-9
    Round Five: Ibeabuchi 10-8 (Wilson pt deducted)
    Round Six: Ibeabuchi 10-9
    Round Seven: Ibeabuchi 10-9
    Round Eight: Ibeabuchi 10-9
    Round Nine: Ibeabuchi 10-9
    Round Ten: Ibeabuchi 10-9

    Ibeabuchi 98 Wilson 91

    After a decent opening few rounds where Wilson threw some very good shots, catching Ike and maybe not hurting him, but definitely rocking him back, Wilson became more defensive as the rounds went on, as Ike took a measure of control for the last 6 rounds.

    Wilson was never in great danger of being KO’d though until the 8th where Ibeabuchi hit him with a flurry of power shots and tried to finish it. But Wilson held on and survived as he did throughout his career.

    All in all, Wilson made Ike look fairly ordinary for a few of the rounds with his defensive style, and also catching him a few times with what I now know is his signature shot…the overhand right! Not a great deal of power in it, but enough to make Ibeabuchi think a little bit!
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2022
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  8. zadfrak

    zadfrak Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    It was one of those fights if you were at live it was much different than watching the abc shills calling the fight on tv. A lot of people in the crowd thought it was a draw or 1 point fight either way. Tillis was slipping and riding those punches very well and seldom caught clean. if he is or was caught clean--he goes. but the clean punches were the counters by Tillis.

    some fights are like that and tv provides a different perspective than being there live.
     
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  9. TheMikeLake

    TheMikeLake Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I read the James Tillis autobiography (yes one exists lol) and he said before the Tyson fight he saw some like new age health guru who gave him some concoction akin to a cleanse. He said the next morning during his roadwork his stomach went crazy and he puked for like an hour. He said something like he saw a hotdog he ate in 3rd grade in there lol. After that episode he said he felt great and said this was the best shape he was ever in for a fight. I don't think he thought he won in the book but I don't remember exactly.
     
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  10. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    One thing I stand by in all my years of watching boxing live and on TV is that on TV (even with high def) you don’t get the impact of a solid jab — I don’t mean a Larry Holmes/Sonny Liston jab necessarily, but just a garden-variety jab that lands. On TV it can seem like ‘meh, I’ll not credit that as it’s only a jab’ (even if the other guy isn’t even punching) and you can come up way different scoring than you would live.

    But as for a Larry Holmes-level jab — Sports Illustrated I think it was had a ton of photos from Holmes-Cooney and one of them was of Cooney’s face late in the fight or right after and honestly it looked like someone threw a boiling pot of coffee onto his face. He was red and almost blistered … from that Holmes jab. You don’t get that on TV.
     
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  11. Dynamicpuncher

    Dynamicpuncher Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Donald Curry vs Marlon Starling 1

    1 Starling
    2 Curry
    3 Even
    4 Curry
    5 Starling
    6 Starling
    7 Curry
    8 Starling
    9 Starling
    10 Curry
    11 Curry
    12 Curry

    115-114 Curry

    Very close enjoyable tactical fight in the same vain as McCallum vs Toney, alot of close debatable rounds with Curry's long range shots vs Starling's work on the inside.

    I feel Starling was doing a bit too much clowning around, and not working enough letting his hands go on the inside enough. The last 3 rounds were the easiest rounds in the fight to score, Curry clearly won 10, 11, by adjusting his tactics using movement and out boxing Starling, then in the last round Curry went toe to toe with Starling, and outfought him giving Curry a well deserved close win IMO.

    I felt like all the judges had the fight too wide 117-113 vs Starling, 116-112 x2 for Curry, but overall i feel like the right man won by winning the last 3 rounds clearly. And i feel like overall Starling just didn't do enough work.

    Lastly i went back and revisited this fight after talking to @JohnThomas1 about these fights recently, i'll be watching the 2nd fight aswell and doing a scorecard.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2022
  12. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Good stuff. Starling did indeed clown around a bit in that first one and some speculated he could have won it if not. He was much more serious in the rematch but still outdone. I'm thinking you will have the rematch for Curry by around 2 points. It will be interesting.
     
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  13. Dynamicpuncher

    Dynamicpuncher Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Donald Curry vs Marlon Starling 2

    1 Curry
    2 Curry
    3 Curry
    4 Starling
    5 Starling
    6 Curry
    7 Curry
    8 Starling
    9 Curry
    10 Curry
    11 Starling
    12 Even
    13 Starling
    14 Curry
    15 Curry

    145-141 Curry

    @JohnThomas1 I thought this was a much better fight then their 1st encounter, Starling wasn't clowning around and was all business. Curry looked alot more assertive/stronger/better fighter.

    Curry came out as the aggressor and i feel like that set the tone for the majority of the fight, Curry was the effective aggressor landing solid shots to the body and head, and occasionally pushing Starling back on the ropes. Starling would have his moments counter punching and landing some good flurries, but i felt like Curry had the best of it mostly for his effective aggression and outworking Starling.

    Overall it was a very classy inside fight with alot of skills on display, but i felt like Curry was clearly the better man. And i know what you mean now when you said that before @JohnThomas1

    Final thoughts i think this fight showed Curry was just a bit better than Starling overall, the 1st fight was a nip and tuck encounter with two talented but greenish fighters ? the 2nd fight both men were at their peak and on their game, but Curry clearly showed he was the superior fighter in a competitive but clear win IMO.

    The judges had it 145-140 x2 144-142 i feel like that was pretty spot on, maybe 144-142 was a tad close but overall good judging.
     
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  14. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Excellent card and write up! Curry started his great run here and IMO it's one of the finest displays at 147 from then forward. Curry fought at an extremely high level for a few years and showed great versatility against various styles.
     
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  15. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Bless you.

    The Tyson score right below this post is a good illustration. Some close rounds — give them all to Tyson and he won convincingly. Give them to Tillis and you’re talking a one-point fight or a draw.

    The thing so many boxing fans (especially in the World/current forum) seem to fail grasp is that a fight can be really close and competitive and be 12-0 in rounds (120-108 on the cards) if every round is really close but the judge/judges believe the same guy edged every round. Me and you go at it and every round is tipped your way by a couple of jabs or one clean shot and you just shut me out — but I may have been *this* close to winning all those rounds myself.

    The way it does NOT work is (as I’ve seen some naive scorers suggest) you give a close round to one fighter so you give the next close round to the other guy — judges are paid to differentiate who won and lost each round to the best of their ability.

    Another point is your vantage can sway that — the judges aren’t watching on HD with slow-motion replays between rounds. You can only score what you see. If Fighter A’s back is to Judge 1 and there’s a combination by Fighter B and that judge can’t tell if it landed or not, he’s to disregard it. Judge 2 and Judge 3 may have a better angle and see those punches landed clearly … or that they missed by inches or just grazed.
     
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