the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

There was a time when we had ABC’s Wide World of Sports, CBS had Sports Spectacular and NBC had SportsWorld on pretty much every weekend (usually both Saturdays and Sundays, with some days missed for football, basketball or baseball broadcasts).

As I perceived it, ABC was the A-list network for boxing during this period: heavyweight championship bouts and high-profile fights like Leonard-Benitez, several times a year in prime time. Even their preliminaries seemed to feature guys with higher profiles.

CBS was the B-team. You had the duo of Gil Clancy and Tim Ryan, sometimes along with Angelo Dundee, and they got a lot of fights that maybe ABC passed on but still had value. Some of theirs were mismatches — you’d get Wilfredo Gomez against an easy contender or up-and-coming Thomas Hearns vs. an unknown quantity, but also some highly entertaining fights that were just good matchups. And they built a few of their own stars, investing in the likes of Ray Mancini and Alexis Arguello.

NBC was the we-try-harder home of the (they hoped) future stars. They’d find guys who had a chance to crack the big time or who were good action fighters (the middleweights in particular, like Hard Rock Green and Curtis Parker and Frank Fletcher, etc.) and put them in against each other. Sometimes it would elevate both, sometimes the winner would become more of an attraction. They also got into a few more novelty fights like James Scott fighting in Rahway Prison or colorful guys like Jorge Paez.

 

Thanks for the reminder that this was out there! It wasn't labelled as "Ramos-Collins" on youtube which is unfortunate but that's okay. I remember missing this one on TV atr the time and lamenting it terribly. Not sure why I had to miss it but remember reading the writeup in World Boxing Magazine a month or two later.

For me this boiled down to the fact that Ramos just looked so much better. He was crisper, more efficient, better movement, and could not miss with that right hand. If he'd just accelerated a bit and been a bit more aggressive I think he'd have taken Collins out but he wasn't that kind of fighter.

Boxing needs fights like this, a tough crossroads bout, the kind that used to be so plentiful. THIS is how fighters learn, this is how they develop.

You knew Collins? Was he a decent guy? I'm always eager to hear anecdotal stuff like that.

Anyway, here we go:

1. Ramos
2. Ramos
3. Collins, 10-8
4. Ramos
5. Ramos
6. Ramos
7. Ramos
8. Ramos
9. Collins
10. Collins

96-93 Ramos.

 

He was a good guy. Very playful in the gym with other kids. We were fighting out of the same gym but he had been boxing for years and I was just starting out and I remember we were going to appear on an amateur show just over in Indiana. So he comes up to me and says, "Oh by the way, I just heard your opponent is going to be 'Killer Marciano' in case you're wondering. I must admit I laughed my tail off. I was nervous with this being my first show and it really broke tension. Like I said, very playful with everyone. I think I heard he became an electrician when his career was done.

 

Interesting. Good on him!

Just moved out to the Midwest myself this summer. Wife got a job reaching law at University of Iowa.

 

Dingaan Thobela v Orzubek 'Gussie' Nazarov I (lightweight title)

Round 1: 10-9 Naz
Round 2: 10-10 Even
Round 3: 10-9 Naz
Round 4: 10-10 Even (Thobela scores a knockdown)
Round 5: 10-9 Naz
Round 6: 10-9 Naz
Round 7: 10-9 Naz
Round 8: 10-9 Naz
Round 9: 10-9 Naz
Round 10: 10-8 Naz (scores a knockdown)
Round 11: 10-9 Naz
Round 12: 10-9 Naz

Total: 120-109 Nazarov (actual scores: 118-108, 117-111 and 115-114 all for Nazarov)

This bout was more interesting than it was exciting, but it did have a few moments. The Japanese announcers made it more exciting than it was due to the fact that Gussie fought out of Japan and they cheered at everything. Regardless, Thobela just couldn't do a thing with Gussie, who was forcing his strength right down his throat. The 4th could test anyone's judging skills and views. Thobela dropped Naz with a beauty of a counter but that's all that round. The fact is before that happened Naz was having a terrific round. I just could not give a 2 point round for 1 shot. I gave a point for the knockdown and a point to Naz for having a terrific round - Even. I wouldn't have batted an eye if anyone gave Gussie a 2 point round for the 12th, although I did not. All Thobela did was grapple that round. But Thobela wasn't without his moments of success. He was really finding the range with lead rights throughout the contest and had Gussie's right eye just about closed by the 10th. But it just wasn't enough to keep Naz off of him. Pressure, strength and non-stop banging took the fight for Naz. Always wanted to see Nazarov-DeLaHoya but it wasn't to be. Our loss.

 

I always wondered about Thobela, Catley strongly accused him of using loaded gloves in their fight.

 

whooa! Never heard that. Is that fight out there?

 

How did you make out with Killer Marciano? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

Any idea (either from him directly or a guess of your own) about what happened against Robbie Sims? Truth be told, Sims was just better anyway, but Collins looked almost like he was sick in there. No muscle tone, very pale. Just sickly looking.

 

lol! He backed out when he saw me on the scales. I was rather tall for a welterweight and I don’t think he liked the height. He should have taken it, I was dead at the weight. I actually came in at 145 with no where else to lose weight.

 

if you notice in that fight he had an abrasion under an eye before the fight. I heard from someone in camp that he got into a bar fight the night before. Couldn’t have been beneficial to him.

 

I just checked on Youtube for you and the fight is available and here's an interesting read for you regarding the fight.


Four months later, on September 1, 2000, Catley traveled to South Africa to defend his title against Dingaan Thobela. Unfortunately, he would contentiously lose the crown. Catley explained. “The first jab he hit me with, I don’t know why I compare it to this because it’s never happened to me, but it was like being hit by a big glass ashtray. Something solid. I had my therapist with me, and we’d already prepared ourselves that if anything negative came into my head to push it to one side. But as the fight went on, I became scared of being hit by his jab. I’d never felt anything like that in my life.

“I’m a come-forward fighter who’s willing to take a shot to give one, but that night was tough. I put him down in the twelfth round, but he got up. The ref didn’t give him a count and I walked straight into a punch. That was it. End of fight.

“I woke up in the morning and knew something was wrong. You’re going to get bruises fighting, but not welts. My face looked like I’d repeatedly walked into the sharp edge of a door and that’s impossible to get that from a boxing glove. I had my suspicions but had no evidence to follow through.

“About six weeks after, my uncle phoned me up and said, ‘Have you seen the fight yet?’ I said, ‘No I haven’t.’ He then said, ‘You want to see his bandages when his gloves were off. It looked like he had a mobile telephone strapped to the front of them,’ referring to the sharp edges.

“I watched the fight and that backed up my suspicions. A photograph was printed off of him in his bandages, and it blatantly showed the bandage shape was square, which is impossible to get when you take a glove off. We then employed a group of forensic experts who Scotland Yard also use, and they came back and agreed that it was impossible to make that bandage shape. It measured 3.6-centimeters-thick with a square edge. I was left unattended for forty-five minutes before the fight after the wraps had been signed, and no doubt so was Thobela. I’m sure that’s when he added something to his bandages.”

The WBC took note of Catley’s case, but Thobela was not stripped of his title. Instead, he lost it to Dave Hilton three months later, and soon after the title became vacant. Catley would have to wait ten months to have his third crack at world honors. “I was made mandatory to fight for the title again and went back to Canada to fight Eric Lucas. However, after the Thobela fight, I was never the same. The way and the manner I got beaten by Thobela, I lost the desire and the passion for the sport.

 

wow, I never heard that story. Thanks for sharing.

 

Danny Lopez (c) vs. Mike Ayala, scheduled for 15 rounds for the WBC featherweight championship on June 17, 1979, at the San Antonio Civic Center Coliseum.

“Little Red” Lopez is 40-3 (37) and weighs 126 pounds standing a wiry 5-foot-8. He is 27 years old, making his seventh defense of the crown he won by decision over David Kotey in Ghana. All of his previous defenses have ended before the final bell, five by KO and one by DQ. He has won 16 fights in a row, with wins over the likes of Ruben Olivares, Chucho Castillo and a young Sean O’Grady in that streak before winning the title.

“El Cyclone” Ayala is 21-1 (12) and weighs 125 1/2, standing 5-4. He is the No. 1 contender, the NABF champion and has won eight in a row at age 21.

A crowd of 15,000 (a record for San Antonio at the time) produced a gate of $250K for this fight.

The fight:

1 — Lopez 10-9: Danny fights the full 3 minutes, following Ayala to the ropes and a neutral corner (where Mike will spend much of the fight, kind of alternating between the two neutral corners). Ayala lands a few nice counter flurries.

2 — Ayala 10-9: Mike sets up in the corner and counters out of it, lashing out with crisp combinations. He has a sweet left hook and rocks Lopez with it.

3 — Ayala 10-9: More of the same as they go to war. Ayala is more explosive but Lopez is making some long-term investments in hopes of a later return with thudding rights to the body.

4 — Ayala 10-9 (c): Lopez is working from bell to bell but Ayala seems to hurt him with a late flurry. Lopez’s jab is ever-present.

5 — Even 10-10; Ayala slows a bit but still has some flashy flurries.

(I’ll pause at this point to note the difference between the 15-round era and the 12-round era: today, Lopez would be in deep trouble down this far entering the midpoint, but he’s cool and calm and working away knowing he has plenty of time to turn this thing … and that his body work will probably help. Big difference in mentality.)

6 — Lopez 10-9: No major damage but Lopez rakes him over and is relentless.

7 — Lopez 10-8: Danny is coming hard and scores a knockdown with a left after a straight right that seems to break Ayala’s nose. Mike isn’t hurt as in unable to defend himself but this is a major turning point. Lopez also does some more vicious body work.

8 — Lopez 10-9: Ayala has a couple of sizzling flurries but Danny just keeps working with that jab and straight punches.

9 — Ayala 10-9: Signs of life as Mike fights furiously and hurts Lopez with a right late in the round.

10 — Even 10-10: Both are rocked. All action. What a round.

11 — Lopez 10-8: A short left knocks Ayala down. Referee Carlos Padilla counts him out as he rises right around 10. Both corners enter the ring. Then Padilla consults with the guy counting at the knockdowns/timekeeper and … I guess that person overruled the referee? WTF. Says he beat the count (remember, this is Ayala’s hometown and I’m betting this person is from San Antonio). So Padilla gets everyone out of the ring and resumes the fight. Lopez just shrugs like, ‘OK, whatever.’ Round ends almost immediately after it resumes — not sure we got a full 3 minutes here, much less what the deal was with the count. Never seen anything quite like it.

12 — Lopez 10-9: Danny really works him over. Ayala looks done but rallies late. What heart.

13 — Lopez 10-9: Paint job.

14 — Lopez 10-9: Danny really batters him here. Could have been stopped. Ayala also cut over left eye and the eye is closing.

15 — Lopez wins by knockout with a right hand (I think there’s a little left hook follow but the right did it. Fittingly, it ends in a neutral corner where Ayala has fought most of the bout.

My score: Lopez 136-130.

Judges cards: 135-132 Lopez, 135-129 Lopez, 134-131 Ayala.

Good example of a really competitive, hotly-contested fight that isn’t really close on the scorecards.

This was Fight of the Year by Ring Magazine and for good reason. If you’ve never seen it, you owe it to yourself.

CBS carried this fight with Tim Ryan, Gil Clancy and Angelo Dundee on commentary.

This is an interesting video. The sound’s kind of muddy (like the ringside mic is picking up echoes and the sound mix early with the announcers and a very loud crowd makes them hard to hear) but the picture quality is very good and you get all the off-air between-round stuff, including some chatter with Ryan and others.

This content is protected

 

I scored this one a few years ago, @Saintpat, and had a similar points margin fo you. There were some great fights in 1979 - this, Arguello-Escalera 2, Franklin-Johnson 2, Holmes-Weaver and this one.

Danny Lopez v Mike Ayala

After 14 rounds, I had it in rounds 9-5 to Lopez but with two two-point rounds, the 7th and 11th because of the knockdowns. That made it 135-129 in Lopez's favour.

On the official scorecards, Lopez was up on two of them; 135-129, the same as my score, and 135-132 (too close when you factor in both knockdowns). Unbelievably, the third judge had it 131-134 to Ayala! That's hard to fathom.

Lopez looked like a big featherweight in there and Ayala looked more like a bantamweight. Ultimately the size difference and power difference was too much for Ayala to overcome but he showed great heart to last as long as he did.

The 11th round was as bizarre an end to a round as you could see. Padilla definitely waved it off and Ayala seemed to have accepted the decision but then Padilla changed his mind - odd, to put it mildly.

R1: 10-9
R2: 9-10
(difficult to score - Lopez busier, Ayala with the more eye catching combos)
R3: 9-10
(Ayala's strategy is to box off the ropes, confident that he is better defensively. Lopez still the busier but less certain of how to tackle Mike) 9-10
R4: 9-10
(the pattern continues. Mostly punches landing on the arms from Lopez, excellent defense from Ayala and then short explosive bursts that means little Mikey edges the round)
R5: 9-10
(Lopez needs to change up his attack; Ayala feels like he's controlling the exchanges, even on the back foot)
R6: 10-9
(close but thought Lopez was more effective in this round, but maybe in comparison with the last few)
R7: 10-8
(Lopez takes control amd turns the fight his way, bringing Ayala off the ropes and fighting in ring centre. Lopez landing harder and more frequently now. Then, all of a sudden, Ayala drops to one knee).
R8: 9-10
(close - Lopez takes the first minute, Ayala taking punishment but Mike comes back hard - tremendous round)
R9: 10-9
(close again - Lopez seems to be landing the more damaging shots, Ayala fights back hard though. Superb stuff)
R10: 10-9
(Ayala starts well but is starting to tire now. The off the ropes strategy is not working like it was and Lopez is landing consistently. Clearer round for Lopez)
R11: 10-8
(the continual pressure from Lopez is starting to take its toll on Ayala and again Ayala drops to one knee from a relatively innocuous punch. Then chaos - Padilla looks like he is waving the fight off and Lopez's seconds enter the ring before Padilla calls it on again - and then the round is over)
R12: 10-9
(Lopez dominating most of the round, using his jab to control the distance. Ayala landing more sporadically but having no discernible effect. Ayala comes on in the last minute but not enough to take the round)
R13: 10-9
(close and Ayala fought back hard towards the end of the round but Lopez is doing more damage overall)
R14: 10-9
(this is reminding me of Mancini-Kim, the bigger, stronger fighter is on top, but Ayala is doing just enough to keep it competitive)
(135-129)
R15: Lopez TKO Ayala
(Lopez stops Ayala after working him over for the first minute or so of the round)