the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Juan Francisco Estrada vs Roman Gonzalez 3

1 Estrada
2 Estrada
3 Gonzalez
4 Estrada
5 Estrada
6 Estrada
7 Gonzalez
8 Gonzalez
9 Gonzalez
10 Gonzalez
11 Estrada
12 Estrada

115-113 Estrada

So i just watched this fight i thought Estrada boxed really nicely in the first half counter punching and boxing beautifully on the backfoot, to me Gonzalez looked a bit hesitant and wasn't being aggressive enough and he gave away too many of the early rounds. To Gonzalez's credit he cameback very well in the 2nd half pressuring Estrada and forcing him towards the ropes, but Estrada won the last two rounds with a pretty good 12th round to win close but well deserved decision.

Overall i have the trilogy 1-1-1

 

Cris Rosales v Paddy Barnes (flyweight title)

On the show last night I really enjoyed the first televised fight between Cris Rosales and Josito Velasquez. I didn't score it but thought it was well deserved by Rosales who won the decision. Velasquez was the harder puncher but Rosales had such an assortment of punches, which enabled him to beat the prospect. I was looking for another fight today when I saw Rosales' bout with Paddy Barnes was on youtube and checked it out. Let me tell ya, damn good fight! I gave Barnes the 2nd, Rosales the 3rd and had the 1st round even. Barnes was winning the 4th when he got caught with a right to the body that turned him over for the 10 count. I was amazed at the fight Barnes put up, but, man, what was his management thinking? He only had 5 pro bouts. Everyone needs seasoning. His career was over at under 10 fights. Talk about ruining a prospect. But again, damn good fight!!!!!

 

Robin Reid v Henry Wharton (super middleweight title)

Round 1: 10-9 Reid
Round 2: 10-10 Even
Round 3: 10-9 Wharton
Round 4: 10-10 Even
Round 5: 10-9 Wharton
Round 6: 10-9 Reid
Round 7: 10-9 Reid
Round 8: 10-9 Reid
Round 9: 10-9 Reid
Round 10: 10-9 Reid
Round 11: 10-9 Wharton
Round 12: 10-9 Reid (incomplete round - took a leap of faith on what was said)

Total: 117-113 (actual scores: 117-113, 118-111 and a 114-114 for a majority decision for Reid)

A good old domestic fight out of 'Merry Auld'. I wouldn't put it in the category of Benn-Eubank or Minter-Finnegan but they gave it a dogged try. The styles seemed to clash a bit which prevents me from saying, 'Oh, you gotta see this!' But still, it had its moments and Reid was a deserving winner.

 

Dave Boy Green v John H Stracey

I’m focussed in on the welterweights from ‘76-‘79 at the moment: Cuevas, Palomino and the contenders like Harold Weston and Dave Boy Green.

Billed as a title eliminator for a shot at Carlos Palomino, former world champ Stracey, who had lost his title 9 months earlier to Palomino, was looking for a rematch but was up against a young and hungry contender in Dave Boy Green.

Green, looking somewhat like Ray Winstone in the movie Scum, attacked Stracey from the opening bell like he’d just been released from borstal and wanted to take it out on someone. Stracey, a real life cockney, was the more cerebral fighter but he looked like he was going to be overwhelmed by the somewhat crude attacks from Green.

Harry Carpenter described this as the Country Boy versus the Cockney Kid, to describe the unsophisticated style of Green. But effective, winging overhand rights looked like they might put Stracey out early. However, he showed his experience to hang in there, despite an eye that continued to swell.

Little by little, Stracey eased his way into the fight and in the 8th and 9th, looked like he might turn the tables as Green visibly tired and became more ragged. But Green got a second wind in the 10th and with Stracey struggling to see, referee Harry Gibbs wisely waved it off.

Stracey would fight once more, over a year later, before retiring for good. Dave Boy Green would get the title shot a few months later against Palomino.

I didn’t score this one but Green was well ahead at the time of the stoppage. Definitely worth a watch if you haven’t seen it before - great atmosphere, entertaining commentary from Carpenter and top all-British action.

 

I scored this one earlier this year mate i actually gave Green 10-8 round without a knockdown looking at my card.


John H Stracey vs Dave Boy Green

1 Green
2 Green
3 Stracey
4 Green
5 Green 10-8 because i felt Green was so dominant
6 Green
7 Green
8 Stracey
9 Stracey
10 Green wins TKO

87-82 Green

Grueling fight Green just seemed physically stronger and overwhelmed Stracey, Stracey had his moments but Green just kept hitting Stracey over and over with right hands and couldn't miss with it, and Stracey didn't seem to have an answer for it, nor could he keep the relentless Green off him.

I do think Green was out of order with the use of his head early on, he done it multiple times and was maybe lucky he didn't DQ'ed or points taken away.

The 5th round was pretty one sided which is why i scored it 10-8, Stracey at one point in the round looked like he wanted to quit. But fair play to Stracey for sticking in there and gutting it out.

Stracey to his credit actually made a bit of comeback in rounds 8 and 9. As Green got tired and went a bit ragged, but the 10th round Green got a 2nd wind. And pounded Stracey along the ropes, with Stracey's eye almost completely closed. The referee did Stracey a favour stopping the fight.

Overall a bit of a one sided fight, but Stracey had some moments here and there.

 

Guys, I checked it out about 2 years ago and loved it. My score on the 10 point system would have been 89-83 for Green, but I always opt to use the system in play at the time. This is what I wrote:

I watched the 1977 John Stracey v Dave Boy Green fight this morning. Man, there wasn't a moment to breathe. Here is how I had it.

Round 1: Green
Round 2: Green
Round 3: Even
Round 4: Green
Round 5: Green
Round 6: Green
Round 7: Green
Round 8: Green
Round 9: Stracey
Round 10: Harry Gibb stops the bout in Green's favor

Total (through 9 completed rounds): 89 1/2 - 86 1/2 for Green (if I am understanding Britain's 10 - 9 1/2 scoring correctly)

Green was all over Stracey from the opening bell, slathering him in body shots, the 'muckspreader' and a careless noggin. It looked like Stracey was making a remarkable comeback from a winded Green in the 9th, but Green got his second win in the 10th and Gibb quite rightly pulled out a distressed Stracey. It seemed like the arena was electric that night. I'll bet that was fun to be a Green fan that night.

 

William Joppy v Julio Cesar Green I (middleweight title)

Round 1: 10-10 Even
Round 2: 10-8 Green (scores a knockdown)
Round 3: 10-7 Joppy (scores 2 knockdowns)
Round 4: 10-9 Green
Round 5: 10-9 Joppy
Round 6: 10-9 Green
Round 7: 10-10 Even
Round 8: 10-9 Joppy
Round 9: 10-9 Green
Round 10: Video only showed the last 40 seconds - the team didn't even discuss the round so I couldn't even take a leap of faith
Round 11: 10-9 Green (scored it Even but the ref deducted a point from Joppy for an illegal punch)
Round 12: 10-9 Green

Total: 105-103 Green (actual scores: 114-112, 113-112 and 116-113 all for Green)

This fight was a real disappointment - must've been thinking of Dave 'Boy' Green and got carried away. Joppy fought negatively but sometimes effectively. The crowd booing his tactics which late in the fight bogged down into actual running. Green for his part at least tried to fight. Was annoyed with the shortened 10th round, which prevented a complete score on my part. All in all, I would recommend a complete miss on this one.

 

We’re all aligned in our descriptions of this fight, even down to the wording with the mini comeback from Stracey before Green’s second wind in the 10th.

I love watching these fights from that period of British boxing as the atmosphere at Wembley Arena (known then as Empire Pool) was great. Stracey being the Londoner had the crowd behind him but Green seemed oblivious to that and wouldn’t be denied.

 

Carlos Palomino v Davey Boy Green

Another one from the welterweight 1970s archives and featuring Davey Boy Green in his first world title challenge against the stoical Carlos Palomino.

This one was again at Wembley Arena (or Empire Pool as it was then known, in the days when you could still have names that referenced Britain’s historical legacy as an empire). The crowd for this one were firmly in Green’s camp with no local rivalry to contend with unlike the Green-Stracey fight. According to Harry Carpenter, Green brought most of his home town with him to the event.

Speaking of Carpenter, in the Green-Stracey fight he called the action precisely as it was, but here he did what a lot of British commentators do, which is call the action as they wish to see it. There were lots of references to Palomino wilting under the pressure from Green and how much trouble he was in but from my point of view, Palomino is one cool customer who kept his nerve even when he was under intense pressure from a relentless challenger. Palomino was a true 15 round fighter who was fantastically durable and built momentum as a fight wore on and this was very much in evidence here.

Having said that, Green did give Palomino some rocky moments, particularly in the 10th and was probably leading going into the 11th round but in a foreshadowing of what would happen to Green in his second world title challenge three years later, he caught an awesome left hook that put him flat on his back and completely out.

I didn’t score this one (again) but slightly regretted that. Carpenter, somewhat predictably, had Green miles ahead but I thought that it was probably a tighter fight and had Palomino not scored the KO, I think he’d have kept the momentum going as Green tired to edge his way to a points win.

This was a brilliant fight from start to finish so I strongly recommend it to anyone who hasn’t seen it before.

I also watched highlights of Green v Andy Price, which was Green’s first fight following the Palomino defeat. Looked like another fun one, the 8th round in particular.

 

Jel, I checked this out a few years back and loved it. This is what I wrote:

Here is a fight I have been trying to see for some time. The welterweight title fight between Carlos Palomino and Dave 'Boy' Green. Everytime I tried to see it there was a round missing here or there or it was highlights. Found it in its entirety on youtube. To begin, I don't believe this was scored under the 10 point must system. I think referee James Brimmell was the sole arbiter under British rules. But since I'm unsure, I will score it 10 point must.

Round 1: 10-9 Green
Round 2: 10-9 Green
Round 3: 10-10 Even
Round 4: 10-10 Even
Round 5: 10-9 Green
Round 6: 10-10 Even
Round 7: 10-9 Green
Round 8: 10-9 Palomino
Round 9: 10-10 Even
Round 10: 10-9 Green
Round 11: Palomino scores a KO

Total through 10 completed rounds: 99-95 Green

If you like tough fights to score (which I do) this is a good one. I actually had 4 even rounds. Green slathers Palomino in thumping shots from beginning to end and although Palomino's workrate isn't up to Green's, he does nail Dave throughout with the sharper shots. Excellent fight.

 

You made a point at the end of your post that I meant to make myself - Green was winging clubbing shots at Palomino but I thought the more quality and effective punching was done by Palomino, so even when Green was outworking Palomino, you had the impression that the more impactful work was coming from the champion. Again, something that Harry Carpenter neglected to mention or, perhaps, notice.

 

Carlos Palomino v Armando Muniz 1

Not much of a write-up for this one. Although a fine fight in its own right, I didn’t find the action quite as compelling as the Palomino-Green fight, although it warmed up nicely over the second half of the fight. Had Muniz made it to the final bell, my feeling is Palomino would have got the decision based on that big last round where he put Muniz down, but the ref made the intervention anyway.

1 8-10 (technically a two point round but didn’t look like a legit KD)
2 9-10
3 10-9
4 9-10
5 9-10
6 10-9
7 9-10 (good action)
8 10-9
9 10-9
10 9-10
11 9-10
12 10-9 (close)
13 10-9 (close)
14 10-9
(132-133)
15 Palomino TKO Muniz

 

Since we’re playing Jeopardy, I’ll stick with 1970s welterweights for $100, Alex.

Ray Leonard vs. Armando Muniz, scheduled for 10 rounds at Springfield Civic Center in Massachusetts, technically at junior middleweight, on Dec. 9, 1978 in front of a crowd of 6,000.

EDIT: Just realized I scored this on the 44th anniversary of the fight.

Ray is 16-0 (9) and weighs 149. He has a five-inch reach advantage. He was a 1976 Olympic gold medalist and is on the rise at age 22.

Muniz is 44-13-1 (30) and a four-time welterweight title challenger, twice against Carlos Palomino and twice against Jose Napoles (in both he gave really good accounts the first time around but was outclassed in the rematches) — he lost a decision to Palomino about six months earlier and has announced this will be his last fight win or lose. He’s 32. He’s only been stopped once, in the final round vs. Palomino in their first meeting.

1 — Leonard 10-9: Mostly a feeling-out round, Ray lands one flurry and some nice jabs, Mando gets in a few good body shots.

2 — Leonard 10-9: More movement from Ray and he can’t miss with the left hook.

3 — Leonard 10-9: He’s using his whole arsenal now, blending lateral movement and pot-shot rights, hooks and an occasional uppercut while still using the jab.

4 — Leonard 10-9: Controls the action and really landing some shotgun jabs.

5 — Muniz 10-9: Ray stops moving so much and stands in front of Muniz, who lands a lot of good body shots and mauls his man. Leonard has a late flurry and you could argue pulls out the round but I went with Armando.

6 — Leonard 10-9: Leonard batters his man. Muniz is having issues with his left arm, trying to shake it out, lands a few hooks to the body with it but really takes a pounding.

Muniz retires on his stool. On TV they say that makes it a Round 7 TKO by Massachusetts rules but I think the record book says sixth.

My scoring: Leonard 59-55.

This is Ray really starting to come into his won as a pro, sitting down on his punches and ripping combinations when he lets loose. Nice performance. Mando acquitted himself well but is outclassed.

 

Love the intro to your write up!

This shows how good a fighter Leonard was, that he could comfortably dispatch a good contender like Muniz, who had gone life and death with Napoles and Palomino. Yes, Napoles wasn’t quite the same fighter as he had been when they met but Muniz got outright robbed in their first fight. And Palomino was a very capable champion. Leonard was just on another level, though.

 

Gaspar Ortega v Florentino Fernandez II (scoring on a rounds basis)

Round 1: Ortega
Round 2: Ortega
Round 3: Even
Round 4: FF
Round 5: FF
Round 6: FF
Round 7: FF
Round 8: Ortega
Round 9: FF
Round 10: Even

Total: 5-3-2 Fernandez (actual scores: 6-2-2 and 5-4-1 both for Fernandez and a 5-4-1 for Ortega)

First of all, I know I've said this before, but I love these '60s MSG bouts. Did the people back then know how good they had it? Ortega fought differently than he did in their first bout. Rather than make every round a pier-sixer, he boxed, moved and countered when he could, but Floro was a monster at the weight class and just pounded the body whenever and wherever he could. Strangely, if there was anyone stunned in this bout it was Floro, albeit briefly, in the first 2 rounds, being caught with one of Gaspar's patented counters. Had I not known the result I would have said Gaspar was well on his way after those first 2 rounds. Also, I know I've said it before, but could the announcer not see how awkward he was announcing the decision? I mean, it's a split vote and he announces the first 2 scores for Floro. Really? Why even bother with the 3rd ballot for Ortega. Absolutely no suspense. And this practice continued in NY and NJ well into the '80s, whereas Jimmy Lennon was keeping the west coast fans in suspense since the early '60s and maybe even the '50s. On my soapbox today, guys.