the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

This I think is the period of the Gillette-sponsored network TV fights — Ortega was a staple on that programming for obvious reasons … he was always in good fights, wasn’t likely to get KO’d or KO the other guy early so the network would get rounds and he’d fight anybody, anywhere, anytime.

In general, no, I don’t think the folks of the time appreciated it. Those fights killed the fight clubs and often vaulted guys who would be considered more novices in their days to main event type status — someone with 20 or 30 fights as basically a beginning, haha, and hadn’t ‘paid his dues’ and was missing vital lessons others learned the hard ways fighting their way up the club ranks.

I think it’s best illustrated by a passage (from memory) related by AJ Liebling in one of his essays on attending such a Gillette card at MSG (I think the forum), when he encountered the promoter or matchmaker on his way into the arena:

AJ: Is it going to be a hell of a fight?

Promoter/matchmaker: They think it will sell razors.

In retrospect it wasn’t maybe the golden age but it was certainly silver or some precious metal … but they were coming off an era of having it so good that it seemed to them to be fool’s gold.

 

Great observations and an interesting perspective.

 

Been meaning to watch this one for a while and your scorecard gave me the impetus to do it, Scar.

Your point about the thin air is absolutely spot on. I also wondered what the humidity was like in the ring that night. Meza looked spent after 5 rounds but kept going somehow. Pintor landed the more telling blows although Meza was busier but he got more ragged with it as the fight wore on.

I actually thought Meza had the slight edge in rounds won but the knockdowns made the difference. Great but exhausting fight with lots of shifts in momentum.

Lupe Pintor v Juan Meza

1 10-9 (close)
2 9-10
3 10-10
4 9-10
5 10-7 (Pintor swings things firmly in his favour with two KDs)
6 9-10 (good recovery from Meza)
7 9-10
8 9-10
9 9-10 (Meza simply outworking Pintor)
10 10-8 (Pintor knocks Meza down early. Meza fights back hard. Nearly just a 10-9 but Pintor hurts Meza again before the end of the round)
11 10-9
12 10-9

Pintor 114-112 Meza

 

Sugar Ray Robinson v Denny Moyer I (NY rounds scoring basis)

Round 1: Robinson
Round 2: Even
Round 3: Moyer
Round 4: Moyer
Round 5: Robinson
Round 6: Moyer
Round 7: Robinson
Round 8: Even
Round 9: Robinson
Round 10: Moyer

Total: 4-4-2 Draw (actual scores: 5-4-1, 5-3-2 and 6-3-1 all for Sugar Ray)

If you thought these styles wouldn't Gel, think again. But a lot of that had to do with the styles at the time. Even boxers were expected to mix it if they wanted to be asked back to the Garden, which is why these two complied. No such thing as 'win this time, look good next time.' Every fight was before a paying audience that would let you know. Regarding the fight, every round was so close. Moyer, the boxer, and SRR, the fighter, just fought this neck and neck. And although NY was allowing the supplemental point system in the event a judge had an Even card, I elected not to attempt to come up with something that would not be earnest. They fought to the wire and this is how I saw it.

 

Joe Calzaghe v Robin Reid (super middleweight title)

Round 1: 10-10 Even
Round 2: 10-9 JC
Round 3: 10-9 JC
Round 4: 10-9 JC
Round 5: 10-9 Reid
Round 6: 10-9 Reid
Round 7: 10-9 JC
Round 8: 10-8 JC (Reid deducted 1 point for a low blow)
Round 9: 10-9 Reid
Round 10: 10-10 Even
Round 11: 10-9 JC
Round 12: 10-9 JC

Total: 117-112 Calzaghe (actual scores: 116-111 and another 116-111 both for Calzaghe and a 116-111 for Reid for a split win for Calzaghe)

Clearly this is a fight that defines what you are looking for while scoring a contest. 2 of the judges were in line with my card while another judge saw it opposite. Commentator Glen McCrory had it a draw. Many have voiced their opinions over the years, again going back and forth on whom the winner was, so I'm sure the judges here will also have opposing views on this one. And I respect all of you guys and your opinions. It is just that kind of a fight. When Calzaghe got the engine rolling (around the 3rd) he was good, but Reid would take him out of his stride with hard attacks. I will say the referee was more lenient than I would have been. He finally took a point from Reid in the 8th but I would have taken the 5th from him for hitting on the break. He had been pulling all kinds of rough stuff for round after round up until then. But again, clearly a controversial decision with how it's viewed.

 

Orlando Zulueta v Joey Lopes I (DC utilizing the 10 point system)

Round 1: 10-9 OZ
Round 2: 10-10 Even
Round 3: 10-9 Lopes
Round 4: 10-9 OZ
Round 5: 10-9 OZ
Round 6: 10-9 Lopes
Round 7: 10-10 Even
Round 8: 10-9 OZ
Round 9: 10-9 OZ
Round 10: 10-9 OZ

Total: 98-94 Zulueta (actual scores: 99-93 and 96-95 both for Zulueta and a 97-94 for Lopes for a split win for Zulueta)

I wouldn't look at that dissenting score with a question mark, because every round was close and it depends on how one might perceive who was controlling the bout. Lopes was a body-punching specialist who could bang to the head as well, while Zulueta, IMO, controlled the fight with that speedy, stiff left jab and whipping combinations to head and body. Just a damn good fight between two outstanding contenders of the day. And the fact that both went on to meet Joe Brown for the title is testament to good matchmaking, fighters who fought the top dogs of their day, and who fought often in order to grab that brass ring. One could say that fighters today also could fight for the world title after a 10 rounder. But that's because there are multiple titles to go for. Both these boys fought Joe Brown, the actual world champion. And they did it by meeting all the top contenders. Both of these guys has a who's who of top men on their records. But I digress. Suffice to say a damn good fight.

 

Maurice Hope v Wilfred Benitez (jr. middleweight title)

Round 1: 10-9 Hope
Round 2: 10-10 Even
Round 3: 10-9 WB
Round 4: 10-10 Even
Round 5: 10-9 WB
Round 6: 10-9 WB
Round 7: 10-9 WB
Round 8: 10-9 WB
Round 9: 10-9 WB
Round 10: 10-8 WB (scores a knockdown)
Round 11: 10-9 WB
Round 12: Benitez scores a KO

Total through 11 completed rounds: 109-101 Benitez (actual scores: 107-101, 107-102 and 107-103 all with Benitez leading)

It's amazing what body language will tell you. Mo Hope's southpaw style just gave Benitez fits in those early rounds. In fact, there was nothing definitive Benitez did until the 5th round when he abandoned his long range boxing and just tore into the body. From there on it was his fight. This was the first time I'm seeing this fight again since it took place and it's amazing inasmuch as I didn't remember Benitez being hit as much as he was. Clearly he did not fight many left-handers before this. Damn southpaws! Incidentally, I always heard Gil Clancy use the reference, "all southpaws should be drowned at birth", but I heard in a later telecast he gave credit to Maurice Hope for that line. And during this fight, he mentions what Mo said and the irony because of Hope himself being a southpaw. Anyway, a real dramatic finish by Benitez with that one-punch wallop in the 12th. The type that makes you say, 'Wow!'

 

Orlin Norris vs Tony Tucker

After a thread yesterday about the merits or lack of them of the 1980s enigma Tony ‘TNT’ Tucker, I told Tucker’s detractor @Dynamicpuncher that I’d rewatch this fight and here’s how I scored it…

Round 1 Tucker 10-9 Norris
Round 2 Tucker 9-10 Norris
Round 3 Tucker 10-9 Norris
Round 4 Tucker 9-10 Norris
Round 5 Tucker 9-10 Norris
Round 6 Tucker 9-10 Norris
Round 7 Tucker 9-10 Norris
Round 8 Tucker 10-9 Norris
Round 9 Tucker 9-10 Norris
Round 10 Tucker 10-9 Norris
Round 11 Tucker 10-8 Norris
(Close round which I narrowly gave to Tucker. Norris also had a point deducted)
Round 12 Tucker 10-10 Norris

Tucker 114-114 Norris

There were quite a few close rounds which could’ve gone either way, but Norris was the aggressor and the busier fighter for long periods, though Tucker was jabbing Norris’ unprotected face at regular intervals. Nobody was hurt in this fight, there were no knockdowns and I think Norris would have edged it if he didn’t have a point deducted.
Because of the closeness of many rounds I could certainly understand why some believed Norris won more convincingly. But equally the judge who gave it to Tucker by 117-110 obviously gave Tucker every one of those close rounds!

So that’s my score…a draw. But for the low blow by Norris which led to a deducted point, I would have scored the fight in his favour by a solitary point.

 

Larry Holmes vs Quinn Navarre

1 Holmes 10-8 knockdown
2 Navarre
3 Holmes 10-8 standing 8 count
4 Holmes
5 Navarre
6 Holmes
7 Navarre
8 Navarre
9 Navarre
10 Holmes

95-93 Holmes

So i've been waiting to see this fight for a long time, because i heard it was one of Holmes's closest and toughest fights in his 2nd career. I thought Holmes done enough with the 2 point rounds to win a close but clear decision, but i have to say there was a few calls from the referee that i questioned.

In the 3rd round Holmes may of been lucky to not a have knockdown called against him, it could of been a case of Holmes's tripping over Navarre's feet but it was definitely borderline. Then in the same round Holmes stunned Navarre and whilst Navarre was in the corner Holmes continued his assault, but Navarre was throwing back at the same time then all of sudden the referee calls it a standing 8 count ? i thought that was quite bizarre call considering Navarre was throwing back at the time.

Then another call in the 6th round Holmes appeared to knockdown Navarre with a right hand on top of the head, Navarre's gloves definitely touched the canvas and i thought Holmes should of got credited for another knockdown.

Overall it was a decent competitive fight with a few entertaining moments, and a few dubious calls from the referee. Navarre's best moments were in the 2nd half of the fight when he at times out jabbed the old master. But Holmes overall still had enough left in the tank with his famous left jab, and occasional right uppercut and right hand to get the job done in a close but clear win for Holmes.

 

Holmes vs Maurice Harris, I'm pretty sure Harris deserved the nod there.

 

I haven't watched it in years but i do remember watching it as a kid, when my dad bought me the Larry Holmes boxset. I also thought Harris was hard done by in that one, and they gave the decision to Holmes based on his reputation.

Another close one in Holmes's 2nd career was his fight vs Jesse Ferguson. Ferguson had Holmes in big trouble in the 2nd round rocking him badly, and gave Holmes all he could handle for 10 rounds, that one was also a very close encounter. Although i didn't actually score it when i last watched it.

 

My take from I think February this year:

Maurice Hope (c) vs. Wilfred Benitez for the WBC super welterweight championship, scheduled for 15 rounds at Caesars Palace Sports Pavilion in Las Vegas on May 23, 1981.

Hope, 29, is 30-2-1 (23) and making the fourth defense of the title he won from Rocky Mattioli. The southpaw weighs 153 1/2 and is making $250K.

Benitez, 22, is 44-1-1 (25) and has won three in a row since moving up to junior middleweight since suffering his only loss in losing his welterweight crown to Ray Leonard. He is a 2-to-1 favorite, weighs 153 1/4 and is pocketing $175K.

Benitez is seeking to win a championship in his third weight class.

1. 10-10 even: This gets chippy early, with Wilfred rushing out and pushing Hope into the ropes, with Maurice retaliating with rabbit shots. Hope gets warned twice later in the round for holding and hitting. Wilfred works the body late, Hope uses his right hand effectively a few times.

2. 10-9 Benitez: Wilfred fights off the ropes and does some good body work. Hope is competitive with his jab but the challenger edges it.

3. 10-9 Benitez: Hope continues to walk in as the aggressor, Wilfred keeps working the body and lands a couple of good rights to the head late.

4. 10-9 Hope: The champion is busier and still the aggressor, taking the frame with his volume while Wilfred looks a tad uncomfortable trying to find his timing. Benitez suffers a cut outside his right eye that looks like it could be trouble (but it's contained and never becomes an issue).

5. 10-9 Benitez: Closes strong with rights to the head after doing good body work throughout.

6. 10-9 Benitez: Nearly a 10-8 round as Wilfred closes strong in the last 30 seconds with a big barrage.

7. 10-9 Benitez: Again nearly 10-8, Wilfred puts on a clinic -- body, head, off the ropes, speed, combinations ... masterclass.

8. 10-9 Benitez: Perhaps to challenge or amuse himself, Wilfred switches southpaw for a good bit of this round (he flirts with it earlier) with similar results, although not as dominant in the previous two.

9. 10-9 Benitez: Closer, late rally by Wilfred edges it but Hope lands a few good shots (although Benitez knocks out one of his teeth).

10. 10-8 Benitez: Another close round until Wilfred produces a flash knockdown with a right hand late in the round.

11. 10-9 Hope: Close round but Wilfred seems to be looking to frame one bit shot for the finish that doesn't come, as Hope lands a few clean blows; Maurice looks unsteady late.

12. Benitez lands a sizzling, highlight-reel right hand to produce a one-punch KO at the 1:56 mark.

My scoring: 108-101 Benitez. Official scores: 107-103, 107-102, 107-101.

CBS televises with Tim Ryan, Gil Glancy and Ray Leonard.

This is prime Benitez showing all his hall of fame ability. He looks strong at this weight, his body punching is dynamite and he has some pop.

He calls out Leonard, who will soon depose Ayub Kalule for the WBA junior middleweight championship, for a rematch after. Instead, Wilfred will defend twice successfully (once against Duran) and then lose the belt to Thomas Hearns.

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Checked it out about a year or so ago. This is what I wrote:

I know this isn't exactly a classic fight, but this was one I missed on Holmes' oldtimers tour, which I had always heard was disputed. So here we go, Larry Holmes vs. Maurice Harris

Round 1: 10-10 Even
Round 2: 10-9 Harris
Round 3: 10-9 Holmes
Round 4: 10-10 Even
Round 5: 10-9 Harris
Round 6: 10-9 Holmes
Round 7: 10-9 Holmes
Round 8: 10-9 Harris
Round 9: 10-9 Harris
Round 10: 10-9 Harris

97-95 Harris (actual scores: 96-95 and 96-94 Holmes and a 96-94 for Harris for a split win for Holmes)

I believe that Harris did deserve that decision. This was a jaded Holmes fighting on memory, but regardless of what Larry did in his youth, Harris should have got the nod here.

 

Larry Holmes (c) vs. Trevor Berbick, scheduled for 15 rounds for the WBC heavyweight championship on April 11, 1981, at Caesars Palace in Las Vegas.

Holmes, 31, is making the ninth defense of his title and has stopped eight challengers in a row. He is 36-0 (27) and weighs 215. At 6-3, he has a one-inch height advantage and three-inch reach advantage over his opponent. He is a 50-1 favorite.

Berbick, 27, is the No. 5 WBC contender and Canadian champion. He has won six in a row and is unbeaten in his last eight (with a draw in there) since his lone loss by first-round KO to Bernardo Mercado. He’s won his last four by knockout, starting with an upset of John Tate that put him on the map, to come in with an 18-1-1 (16) record.

HBO televises. At ringside are notables including Mike Weaver (the WBA champ), Saoul Mamby, Diana Ross, artist LeRoy Neiman, Magic Johnson and Joe Louis, who would die the next day from a heart attack.

1 — Holmes 10-9: Larry gets his jab going and lands a few rights, using lateral movement, while Berbick does a bit of taunting and talking. After the bell they get in a shoving match, with Berbick inadvertently shoving referee Mills Lane (who HBO’s Barry Tompkins embarrassingly calls Carlos Padilla throughout) to the canvas. They gonna get it on ‘cause they don’t get along.

2 — Holmes 10-9: That jab plus rocks Berbick with a big right early. Berbick rallies a bit late.

3 — Holmes 10-9: After moving around the first two rounds, Larry goes flat-footed to rip the body and throw crisp combinations.

4 — Holmes 10-9: Berbick gets aggressive and works his way inside but Larry gets the better of it, hammering Trevor with right hands (uppercuts and body shots) from the corner while they go at it for the last 30 seconds or so.

5 — Even 10-10: Trevor is frisky, doesn’t land many clean shots but clubs away to the body pretty well while Larry works the jab when they’re at a distance.

6 — Holmes 10-9: Jab

7 — Berbick 10-9: Trevor comes forward aggressively and smothers Holmes, doing some good body work. They go toe-to-toe for 30 seconds.

8 — Holmes 10-9: Larry rediscovers the jab. He does a paint job with it for this round and the next three.

9 — Holmes 10-9

10 — Holmes 10-9: You could make a case here I think for 10-8 so dominant is Holmes, who is barely touched and also lands two absolutely sizzling rights.

11 — Holmes 10-9

12 — Holmes 10-9: Berbick gets aggressive again but doesn’t accomplish much; Holmes batters him late as they go toe to to again.

13 — Holmes 10-9: Jabbing away and leads the crowd in chanting his name to liven things up.

14 — Berbick 10-9: He mauls and smother, very sloppy but he outworks Larry.

15 — Holmes 10-9: Toe to toe action and Larry closes it out with body work and chopping shots.

Score: 148-138. Official cards: 146-140, 146-139, 150-135

Trevor showed a lot of heart and wouldn’t let himself be put away but Holmes was simply in a different class. Worth a watch I’d say but more for how Larry solves an awkward puzzle and settles in to show off that magnificent jab.

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I've always loved that fight. Loads of fun. You could tell Barry and Sugar Ray enjoyed it a lot too.