the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mantequilla, Nov 20, 2009.

  1. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    If somebody said that there is no better fight than this one in boxing’s history, I wouldn’t argue much.

    Round 8 is still the best complete round I’ve ever seen.
     
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  2. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Jose Torres v Dick Tiger I (light heavyweight title - scored on NY's rounds basis)

    Round 1: Tiger
    Round 2: Tiger
    Round 3: Torres
    Round 4: Tiger
    Round 5: Even
    Round 6: Tiger
    Round 7: Torres
    Round 8: Tiger
    Round 9: Tiger
    Round 10: Tiger
    Round 11: Torres
    Round 12: Even
    Round 13: Tiger
    Round 14: Torres
    Round 15: Torres

    Total: 8-5-2 Tiger (actual scores: 10-5, 10-4-1 and 8-6-1 all for Tiger)

    I think it was around the 8th round that ring commentator Don Dunphy stated something that I had been mumbling to myself for a few rounds. That Torres just seemed to wing a big shot each time. There were no combinations from him and also there didn't seem to be any great urgency from him until the last couple of rounds. Tiger just fought a brilliant fight for a smaller man. Tear in and rip in combos to the head and body and out again. Torres' jab of course kept him in the fight. It wasn't a point-getter, but a hard jab delivered in ones. I'm sort of surprised the Tiger corner didn't capitalize on this more seeing as how there wasn't a second jab following, nor a right hand. A perfect shot to time and counter one would think. The fight wasn't a barn-burner - although the 11th round was about the best for action - but I didn't mind it too much watching the tactics unfold. And again, Tiger really fought a nice fight for a fighter fighting at such a deficit in height and weight.
     
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  3. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I think I likened this one to Rome burning while Nero fiddled. Very, very winnable fight for Torres but he just fought with no passion.
     
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  4. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    good analogy
     
  5. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Florentino Fernandez W10 Gaspar Ortega (1)

    I really think Ortega should have been given the nod here. Fernandez's youth and strength began to bear fruit late, but I thought Ortega taught the kid a few too many things there to have gotten the fuzzy end of the lollipop.

    Ortega isn't a jab and dance type but he counters beautifully here and serves notice early that Fernandez (21-0 with 18 KO's going in) can't just wade through him like the others. He clips the transplanted Cuban repeatedly and stings him a number of times, and Fernandez doesn't help his own cause by responding not with deft bodywork or opening things up with a nice jab; he simply wings home run shots from his heels and hopes to hit something. He rarely does, and Ortega is tough enough to ride it out when he does catch leather.

    I had Fernandez rallying to make it close at the end, as Ortega seemed to be wearing down a bit from Fernandez's bulldozer attack but I thought he banked enough rounds to earn the decision. Not a horrible decision, but a nice effort from Ortega wasted. Good fight though, thanks to @William Walker for the upload.

    1. Ortega
    2. Ortega
    3. Fernandez
    4. Ortega
    5. Ortega
    6. Even
    7. Ortega
    8. Fernandez
    9. Fernandez
    10. Fernandez

    96-95 Ortega
     
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  6. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Sal, I believe this is actually their second fight. Their first fight featured 2 knockdowns. But no matter, this was an excellent contest which I only saw recently and extremely close. This is what I wrote:

    Gaspar Ortega v Florentino Fernandez II (scoring on a rounds basis)

    Round 1: Ortega
    Round 2: Ortega
    Round 3: Even
    Round 4: FF
    Round 5: FF
    Round 6: FF
    Round 7: FF
    Round 8: Ortega
    Round 9: FF
    Round 10: Even

    Total: 5-3-2 Fernandez (actual scores: 6-2-2 and 5-4-1 both for Fernandez and a 5-4-1 for Ortega)

    First of all, I know I've said this before, but I love these '60s MSG bouts. Did the people back then know how good they had it? Ortega fought differently than he did in their first bout. Rather than make every round a pier-sixer, he boxed, moved and countered when he could, but Floro was a monster at the weight class and just pounded the body whenever and wherever he could. Strangely, if there was anyone stunned in this bout it was Floro, albeit briefly, in the first 2 rounds, being caught with one of Gaspar's patented counters. Had I not known the result I would have said Gaspar was well on his way after those first 2 rounds. Also, I know I've said it before, but could the announcer not see how awkward he was announcing the decision? I mean, it's a split vote and he announces the first 2 scores for Floro. Really? Why even bother with the 3rd ballot for Ortega. Absolutely no suspense. And this practice continued in NY and NJ well into the '80s, whereas Jimmy Lennon was keeping the west coast fans in suspense since the early '60s and maybe even the '50s. On my soapbox today, guys.
     
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  7. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Give me Jimmy Lennon each and every day.

    I can still hear him in my head announcing a fighter “weighing in at a trim and ready 145 pounds.” He made ring announcing into poetry.
     
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  8. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The incompetent announcing is a pet peeve of mine too.

    I'll have to watch the first fight then. I swear it said it was the first fight.

    Either way, the fans got their money's worth!
     
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  9. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Crisanto Espana v Donovan Boucher (welterweight title)

    This is what I get for not reading about the fight first. Kidding aside, I do like to be surprised and know nothing of the fight I'm embarking on. In this bout, which is as one-sided as it can get, Espana hit Boucher with every assortment of punches he could muster. But I will say, Boucher wasn't a bad little fighter - I saw his fight with Kirkland Laing - it's just that he was hopelessly outgunned by a fighter that had every dimension on him. I gave Espana every round with knockdowns awarded in the 2nd and 7th, as well as the 10th before Espana stopped him for a score of 90-79 through 9 rounds. Actual scores read 90-79, 89-80 and 89-82 which was quite close and quite puzzling compared to mine.
     
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  10. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Crisanto Espana v Rodolfo Aguilar (welterweight title)

    Round 1: 10-9 Espana
    Round 2: 10-9 Espana
    Round 3: 10-9 Espana
    Round 4: 10-9 Espana
    Round 5: 10-9 Aguilar
    Round 6: 10-9 Aguilar
    Round 7: 10-9 Espana
    Round 8: 10-9 Espana
    Round 9: 10-9 Espana
    Round 10: 10-9 Aguilar
    Round 11: 10-9 Espana
    Round 12: 10-9 Espana

    Total: 117-111 Espana (actual scores: 117-111, 119-110 and 120-109 all for Espana)

    This was a much better fight than Espana's fight with Boucher. This was competitive in every round and exchanges were brisk and sharp. The dude seemed like he was going to dominate for a few years until Quartey arrived on the scene. While watching it I could only think to myself, only in boxing would you have a Venezuelan defending his title against a Panamanian in Belfast.
     
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  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Julio Cesar Martinez MD12 Samuel Carmona

    Carmona, 8-0, kind of fascinating, takes a tilt at Julio Cesar Martinez who is steppiing back into 112 after that weird asswhipping Gonzalez gave him at 115 (supposedly). This win took Martinez to 19-2 and put him right back into the divisional mix with Sunny Edwards and Artem Dalakiam.

    I always feel like Martinez looks tiny in the ring, so wee, and Carmona is not a huge fly, but still, he looks small. He's also got the most fun uppercuts in all of the sport right now and he looks to use them, his left-uppercut off the left-hook is legit beautiful, tight, torque, swift, but he's outpaced by Carmona who doesn't react to the right handed uppercut feint of Martinez but scores with a gorgeous, whipping right hand straight. The battle lines are drawn here, this is shaping up great.

    This is a pretty fight. Martinez is the deftest switch hitter going I think, it almost looks like he's still fighting orthodox then you realise that on the step he has switched and has just thrown the riskiest punch in the southpaw lexon, the lead trailing hand to the body, and it lands too, then he steps out of that punch into orthodox. Shameless, beautiful. Carmona steps right off him though and lands most of a 1-2. He also lands the best punch of the fight, a stiff-right-hand off lateral movement that seizes Martinez for a second. What a great fight, Carmona's orthodox punching behind control of range and angles against Martinez's unorthodox aggression. "Boxing is dead."

    Martinez hurts Carmona early to the body in the third after a wild miss, a double shot, both good blows, and Carmona goes on the run. I hoep this is just round-changing and not fight-changing, a disappointing lapse in discipline there. Nope, he surrunders the third, but he is back in a big way in the fourth, delightful two-piece to take control of the round. Martinez smokes his way to the round though, this is great. Carmona will want the fifth bigtime given his strategy. And he gets it, glorious left-handed comeback, this really is a jab-activating fight for Carmona who uses athleticism and blah blah to win fights, but here he is a jabbing machine, relatively. Huge learning fight for him and he learns on the job jabbing his way to the fifth. Martinez sweeps him up in the sixth though, I have it split.

    It bothers me how slow Carmona's corner is in producing the stool. It also bothers me when after an admittedly one-sided seventh the referee informs Carmona "you can't run all night." **** you, yes he can. Also, he only ran for the round. Some speculation in the woeful commentary that Carmona might have hurt his right hand. He only threw one all round, but he's told his corner it's ok apaprently so I guess he just got swept up in six and is feeling it. Shame if this pats out into a one-sided fight.

    It did a bit. Whatever happened with Carmona's right: he may have won this fight if he had the right hand. This is a shame - it was genuinely thrilling through six.

    Martinez:3,4,6,7,8,9,10,11.
    Carmona:1,2,5,12.

    8-4 Martinez.
     
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  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    David Jimenez MD12 Ricardo Rafael Sandoval

    Two punchers here. Sandoval looks weird, all the way out over that left leg, sometimes he looks like his right is the further extended punch. He outspeeds Jimenez here, it will be interesting to see if Jimenez adjusts in the second...he doesn't, and looks befuddled to me. Third though, blockbuster, Jimenez makes himself small and becomes very aggressive, keeping his stance tight, moving in and betting on himself to land accurate shots, often beginning with a bodyshot. Sandoval blazes back for a good round.

    Great fourth round, love it, Wonderful round, battle of the jabs, battle of the bodyshots, Jimenez shades it but combat. Jimenez cries uncle in the fifth so far as dropping his guard goes - he doesn't like the bodyshots. But he fights such a close round with Sandoval, it's even basically, but Jimenez makes a seriou smistake switching to southpaw and Sandoval lashes him back to the ropes. So based upon that tactical blunder i give it to Sandoval. Sixth is close, Jimenez looking to hodl on a bit in this round, but you can see how important it is to both these guys. This is a really big fight, Sandoval would have moved probably to 1 or 2 in the world with the win here, Jimenez is stepping up for the first time. 4-2 Sandoval after 6. I will say though, Jimenez is finishing close rounds stronger. Could easily be 4-2 the other way.

    Disaster for Jimenez! He's been warned twice for holding and the referee takes off a good point. So he closes the gap but he doesn't. Sandoval takes the eighth with eye-watering bodyshots and a cream straight-left. Sandoval has six rounds in the bag after nine and Jimenez's corner are telling him combos, you'll lose the decision. He for sure needs something big. He wins the tenth on pure aggression and then in the eleventh, he gets that something big. I understand how it happened. Jimenez was putting everything on his punches but Sandoval hit him to the body a couple of times and Jimenez was on his bike a bit and looked a little like he was ready to surrender the round. But he was winging in these tight right hands too high, missing or glancing but one went righ through the top of his man's head. Sandoval was flashed, 10-8 round. I now have JImenez needing the 12th to draw. And he gets it, outworking Sandoval in exactly his fight, a messy, raucous, disorgansied punch up. Jimenez is better than that makes him sound, but the fight he needed he finally got, and deserved. Not sure he deserved the Majority deciion (114-112 twice, 113-113) but it's no robbery.


    Jimenez:3,4,7^,10,11*,12.
    Sandoval:1,2,5,6,8,9.

    ^Jimenez point off for holding.
    *Sandoval down

    113-113
     
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  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Rey Vargas SD12 Mark Magsayo

    Top featherweights clash for an alphabet belt in a close one, Bernstein vs Roach too. Battle lines are very clear here: Magsayo the reach, Vargas trying to cut it off, get inside, work when he gets there becasue he's probably going to lose the ranged war. It's tetchy, bitty, technically uncertain both fo them at the moment, but I think I like Magsayo better this round as they both load up. Left hook the heart the most memorable punch. Second round follows the same pattern, but Vargas is going back though, and it does make a difference, even with just the landing of meaningful punches. I have no idea why Vargas is so insistent of leading with the hook - he could do so much damage with a good left-handed jab, it makes no sense the approach he has right now. Fight is yet to lift off and Vargas is yet to find his way, probably not a coincidence. He does land two right hands right on the bell though that do enough to poach a scrapy round. He gets hold of the distance in round 4 without the jab, and probably edges it but it's in the last minute when Vargas tags Magsayo with three jabs consecutively that he relay looks in control. He needs to jab. He doesn't, really, in the fifth, inexplicable, but he does kind of hold the distance regardless - but Magsayo nicks the round for me with a bodypunch mid-round and a right hand as the round winds down. Decent action but still not a great fight.

    The sixth is better. Vargas showed interest in the body in the fifth and he doubles down here with left hooks to the body, Magsayo does not like it (does anyone?). I think Vargas might just have taken it away from Magsayo. Vargas is bleeding from his left eye though - let's see how that affects things...yeah none, Vargas is running away with things here, and given that I had one and two very close, it would be reasonable to have him unreachable on points without the knockdown. Bernstein winning the theoretical argument at the moment! The great man calls for the jab though. The cut looks like a clash of heads on the replay.

    Important KD for Magsayo in the ninth! Vargas looks uncomfortable early after a seeming rabbit punhc, Vargas seeking a big right, Vargas jabs but gets hit by the right, Vargas lands back, Magsayo is absolutely winging with the left hook but it's a much shorter right that drops his man. Vargas looks mostly unhurt, but Magsayo's follow up is ludicrous, falling in, winging, getting hit. Missed chance i'm afraid.

    Now - a messy tenth and Vargas does ok, probably lands some of the better stuff but he is all over the place and twice goes down when punches go in and the referee rules slips. I think they were slips, but they easily could have been called an maybe should have been - punches did go in. Bernstein looks horrified :lol:

    The second half of the fight was better than the first. I'm not sure about the split - had it 8-4 and there was a knockdown.

    Vargas:3,4,6,7,8,10,11,12.
    Magsayo:1,2,5,9*.

    Vargas down in round 9.

    115-112 Vargas.
     
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Mark Magsayo MD12 Gary Russell

    Another big size difference, this time in favour Magsayo though, he looks huge. Really landed a couple of decen punches in this round, and Russell looks unsure, he's been hit hard despite taking control early with his southpaw jab. Wow, straight right to the head, uppercut to the body to open the second toopen the round, Magsayo is smoking. Even outjabs Russell briefly at the ropes. He's staying limber and relaxed at distance, seeing how Russell wants to cross or suddenly closing the distance with one or two punches. Russell isn't sure yet, he doesn't like the sudden attacks. He's been inactive for quite a while: what a ****ing nightmare to run into for your first fight back. Magsayo wins the second out of site. This is mad, he opens the third with a lead left hook to the body, the riskiest punch against a southpaw, and no problems. This is looking pretty onesided. The judges scorecards are so close, i'm wondering when the wrinkle comes, and how.

    Russell appears to hurt his shoulder in the fourth - it was like he got punched on it though, i'll need to see a replay, but he hasn't thrown a punch with that arm since. Weirdly, he has a really good round, just winging in that left. He has sort of had no workable plan, I feel, maybe the injury has given him some much needed direction. Yeah, the injury was caused by a punch, he was puncehd on the shoulder and now he's one-handed, brutal. Yes, he is doing well though :lol: It's mad, Magsayo is walking onto the left hand like it's a lottery win :lol: Two-armed Russell was getitng dominated, one-armed Russell is a genius. Magsayo overreached a bit in the fourth and got punished, he got excited about Gary's injury and got taxed. Now he's weirdly pensive but isn't really jabbing.

    Man, I took a peak at the punchstats, Russell throws zero jabs from 5-12. Eight though, is a left-handed clinic :lol: I like Magsayo but I find myself rooting for Russell. The first minute of the ninth is straight-up matador-bull as I have ever seen in the ring. The opening 30 seconds is hilarious; and Russell wins it, and the round. Magsayo catches up to him a bit in 10 and 11 though, can maybe feel it slipping.

    Gary Russell's injury may be the worst thing that's ever happened to Magsayo :lol: post-injury I have him winning! Overlal though, 57-5 Magsayo.

    Fascinating.

    Magsayo:1,2,3,6,7,10,11.
    Russell:4,5,8,9,12.

    115-113 Magsayo.
     
  15. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Here is the last of my Crisanto Espana fixation.

    Crisanto Espana v Luis Santana (some crap title)

    Round 1: 10-9 Espana
    Round 2: 10-9 Espana
    Round 3: 10-8 Espana (scores a knockdown)
    Round 4: 10-9 Santana
    Round 5: omitted
    Round 6: 10-9 Espana
    Round 7: 10-9 Espana
    Round 8: 10-9 Espana
    Round 9: 10-9 Espana
    Round 10: 10-9 Espana
    Round 11: 10-9 Santana
    Round 12: 10-9 Espana

    Total: 108-99 Espana (actual scores: 119-108, 119-110 and 120-109 all for Espana)

    Y'know, I must've been in La-La land because I was into about the 9th round before realizing I was a round off. The 5th round was omitted and I was so far into it that I decided to keep going. My score reflects the missing round, but by the official cards, it becomes apparent that Espana won the round. If so, my score would be 118-109. But it is what it is. I really enjoyed this fight, BTW. Beautiful combos and hard shots flying galore.
     
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