the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mantequilla, Nov 20, 2009.



  1. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    All those NABF light heavyweight champs were ducking a defense vs. Bunny Johnson anyway.
     
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  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Ricardo Sandoval UD10 Rocco Santomauro

    Very weird career Rocco has had. Very weird guy. Self managed, fighting his way from 122lbs down to 112lbs to rekindle his career...here he is though, on the big show. Sandoval seems like he should be too much for him though.

    Snadoval takes over bigtime in the third, he's done the work with left hands to the body through the third while dealing with Rocco's length and a choppy right hand; Sandoval has him timed, is using pressure, right hands inside, and a long right hand outside to score big against an overmatched opponent. Rocco has the heart but it will be interesting to see here how he makes bell! He doesn't have the athleticism and footwork to kep Sandoval off him, nor the power, so he tries to outfight his man and actually, I think it brings him the fifth, brave plan, but risky. Sandoval's corner's call for uppercuts is belatedly answered in a close sixth that Sandoval nicks in the final minute.

    Sandoval never really gets Rocco to go away, he's a tough man, a club-fighter with class really, and although Sandoval wins it pretty wide for me, Rocco was bang in this fight through eight. Disappointing from Sandoval but I think this was not good matchmaking. Why box someone unranked with these weird advantages and background?

    Sandoval:2,3,4,6,7,9,10.
    Rocco:1,5,8.
     
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Jaime Munguia UD12 Sergiy Derevyanchenko

    Sergiy Derevyanchenko always loses, but because he's always in with the best he retains that respect. Here he fights a tight FOTY contender against #1 in waiting Jaime Munguia.

    Total war in the first; they trade bombs, they take turns firing each other back on their heels, it's Sergiy who takes Munguia to the ropes and lands the odd shot in fifteen. Great action. Munguia comes rattling back in the second, flashing a left-hook across Sergiy's jaw early, Sergiy for his own part looks vulnerable when missing, round one is gone for him now and he needs to reset. Big breath for Sergiy at the bell - and he has a great third. Munguia comes rattling back in the final minute though, two good jaws. He continues that work in the fourth, absolutely outstanding, Sergiy won't quit though, he's still moving in trying to throw, all square after four.

    They are just passing the rounds back and forth, Munguia lauches an uppercut that would have landed Sergiy's head on the moon if it had landed, and he clearly wins the firstm minute rocking Sergiy's head about but he comes back savagely, fighting two-handed eschewing defence and rocking Munguia on the ropes. It actually looked like he might go for a minute, but Sergiy shoots his load a bit. In the final minute, Sergiy nearly goes over mostly balance but it gives some idea. Absolutely scenes, wilding. The crazy thing is, you wouldn't be surprised if Munguia wins the sixth.

    He does win the sixth. He's losing the round but lands an uppercut in the final fifty seconds that hurts Sergiy and slips him the round on my card. Close round, but Munguia wins the last minute and shades the round. The seventh, in turn, is even under a cilivised scoring system but Sergiy probably does the more horrible work, what a bodypunch Munguia lands on bell though, sickner.

    Sergiy naughty with the heads in the eighth and it looks like Munguia has a cut as a result - Sergiy then slips but does great work behind that as a one-two. Nicks it IMO. Things have finally slowed a bit but they are still landing meaningful punches on one-another, Sergiy especially is hitting hard still, but he's also circling more, trying to out-box the rangier Munguia and it must be said, it is going rather well...

    It was repeated often in the commentary that Sergiy insisted upon a twelve-round fight - and that Munguia was determined it should be ten. Sergiy won that argument. Hurt in the eleventh, he clearly lost that round - in the twelfth he was dropped. Munguia landed a winging left hook/uppercut and Sergiy sat down immediately - clearly hurt, he takes most of the count. It turned the fight - Munguia turned a loss into a win with that one punch. If Sergiy had agreed to the ten rounds, he'd have won the fight.

    Munguia:2,4,6,11,12*.
    Sergiy:1,3,5,7,8,9,10.

    115-114 Sergiy, official cards were 115-112, 114-113 x2 for Muguia. Any close card is fine.

    *Sergiy down.
     
  4. AntonioMartin1

    AntonioMartin1 Jeanette Full Member

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    But what if the fight only lasted one round? Those you don't need to score :lol:
     
  5. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Simon Brown v Maurice Blocker (unified welterweight title)

    Round 1: 10-10 Even
    Round 2: 10-10 Even
    Round 3: 10-9 Brown
    Round 4: 10-9 Blocker
    Round 5: 10-9 Brown
    Round 6: 10-9 Blocker
    Round 7: 10-9 Blocker
    Round 8: 10-9 Blocker
    Round 9: 10-9 Blocker
    Round 10: Brown drops and stops Blocker

    Total through 9 completed rounds: 88-85 Blocker (actual scores: 87-85, 86-85 and another 86-85 all for Blocker)

    Despite my score, never at any time did I feel Blocker was winning, but mainly evading. He fought smart knowing after several rounds of trading with Brown that that tactic would be a lost cause, so he stayed on the bike throwing sharp combos. But the dude just appeared so fragile that even though we know the results, there seemed to be an inevitability about this. Decent enough fight with some good exchanges.
     
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Nice to see Brown go to embrace his friend after the fight as his corner tries to lift him.

    BROWN:3,4,5,
    BLOCKER:1,2,6,7,8,9
     
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  7. Drew101

    Drew101 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    We disagree on one round, the seventh. Dev did land the more eye catching stuff in general, but Munguia was a little more consistent and landed the two best single shots of the frame. Like you say, it's a 10-10 round in other years but in this year I shade the round and fight to Jaime.

    My current FOTY.
     
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  8. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Knockout ending aside, I think you’re presenting a good example of how people get upset about the scoring of a fight when they don’t actually score it themselves.

    I can have the impression that one guy is going to win, that it seems inevitable, while the other fighter is quietly, surely piling up points and edging some rounds and the scorecard (while accurate) doesn’t match my impression.

    I think that happens a lot and people react as if a fight was a robbery — but a careful, round-by-round analysis and scoring shows that maybe it wasn’t quite how they thought they saw it. I noticed a few people (both high-profile former boxers on social media and general fans) who raised hell over the verdict originally say when they went back and watched Loma-Haney (especially without commentary, which I will get to), they thought Haney won or that it could have gone either way — even Loma’s decisive late round (was it the 11th?) was much closer than they realized … but some want to hang one of the judges over it.

    And commentary most definitely influences people. You watch Whitaker-Ramirez I and listen to the announcers and you think it’s a shutout … and then they say at end of a round where they did nothing but pile praise on Whitaker, almost as an aside, that JLL probably won it, lol. But actually watch it and you see Sweet Pea turning his back and literally running away and maybe a judge (one like me) isn’t going to reward that. I thought JLL won, narrowly, but the announce team made up its mind in the first four rounds and didn’t bother to pay attention that the tenor of the fight shifted. I think that also happens a lot.
     
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  9. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Couldn't agree more.
     
  10. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Chucho Castillo KO14 Ruben Olivares

    I really like taut tactical battles that still feature a good amount of punching. Whitaker-McGirt 1 is one of these, as was Randall-Chavez 1. Espadas-Betulio Gonzalez was beautiful that way too. This fight was terrific, and showed both in good form and at their best weight. This was the second of three fights the two would have. Seen the first some time ago, and wanted to see how different this one might be.

    Good tactical phonebooth warfare. Castillo is exceptionally tough to stand up to the bombs of such a renowned puncher as Olivares. He does a good job of staying a bit inside of Ruben's big shots; Olivares has freakishly long arms for his height and it takes a bit of doing to get the proper arc on his punches. If you stay at range you're toast, you have to either get on your bike and box like crazy or get inside and try to take the play away. Seeing as Olivares is a masterful boxer as well and cuts the ring well, the latter seems the most realistic if more dangerous tack. Castillo takes his lumps here and delivers everything back that he might take and then some.

    Olivares is cut in the first from a butt, and while it probably did hamper his focus somewhat, he still fought bravely and well. Castillo for his part was very sharp and stayed in the pocket.

    In the ninth, with Castillo beginning to surge, Olivares tried desperately to hammer his way back into the fight, pinning Castillo against the ropes and swinging away. Castillo stayed calm here though, and returned fire. The final minute of the round was one long exchange, just beautiful. Olivares tried to capitalize on his last-minute success in the ninth, but Chucho neutralized well by sticking close and just kept his hands moving. He blocked a number of hooks throughout with his right hand and delivered his own, and matched Ruben punch for punch when it came to body blows. A short synopsis of this fight is that Castillo was indeed a bit fortunate with the cut on Olivares, he fought a determined, resolute fight and was able to outdo the champion at his own game. Difficult to score, as often there was precious little between them. Neither man bent, it was the cut that ultimately made judging moot, thank God.

    Regrettably, the 14th is missing except for the final seconds, but that's okay. I get the idea.

    1. Even
    2. Olivares
    3. Castillo
    4. Olivares
    5. Castillo
    6. Olivares
    7. Castillo
    9. Castillo
    9. Castillo
    10. Even
    11. Olivares
    12. Castillo
    13. Olivares
    14. Referee stops contest as the 14th round ends due to Olivares' cut.

    125-124 Castillo at the time of the stoppage.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2023
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  11. Dynamicpuncher

    Dynamicpuncher Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Sergiy Derevyanchenko vs Jamie Muniga

    1 Derevyanchenko
    2 Muniga
    3 Derevyanchenko
    4 Muniga
    5 Derevyanchenko
    6 Muniga
    7 Derevyanchenko
    8 Derevyanchenko
    9 Derevyanchenko
    10 Derevyanchenko
    11 Muniga
    12 Muniga 10-8 Knockdown

    114-113 Derevyanchenko

    Muniga had the strong finish but overall i felt Derevyanchenko had too much of a lead, i much preferred Derevyanchenko's defense, jab, clean punching, and backing up the bigger man.

    Yes in the end it became closer but i still think Derevyanchenko was very unlucky not to win this fight.

    Overall though a cracking fight a FOTY candidate.
     
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  12. Dynamicpuncher

    Dynamicpuncher Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    We had the same score although i think you made a mistake with your 115-114 scorecard unless i misread your RBR.

    1 Derevyanchenko
    2 Muniga
    3 Derevyanchenko
    4 Muniga
    5 Derevyanchenko
    6 Muniga
    7 Derevyanchenko
    8 Derevyanchenko
    9 Derevyanchenko
    10 Derevyanchenko
    11 Muniga
    12 Muniga 10-8 Knockdown

    114-113 Derevyanchenko
     
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  13. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Checked out a couple of Razor Ruddock fights I hadn't seen in awhile. Here we go.

    Razor Ruddock v Michael Dokes

    Razor was very composed in this bout and the bout was close. Dokes was still fighting nicely in the 4th but it was just one of those things with that left hook/uppercut of Razor's. A real game changer. And when he hurt him, that was it. Dokes was out before he hit the canvas. I gave Dokes a share of the 2nd and the rest to Razor for a score of 30-28. Quite a brutal ending.

    Razor Ruddock v Tommy Morrison

    Round 1: 10-8 Razor (scores a knockdown)
    Round 2: 10-8 Morrison (scores a standing 8 count)
    Round 3: 10-9 Morrison
    Round 4: 10-9 Morrison
    Round 5: 10-9 Razor
    Round 6: Morrison drops Razor and gave him another standing 8 count before it was stopped

    Total through 5 completed rounds: 47-46 Morrison

    Another brutal fight but Razor was sloppy in close and Morrison was getting off with uppercuts and the knockdown Morrison scored in the 6th was a highlight knockdown for the ages.
     
  14. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Neither of these guys was a piece of cake. Both had their vulnerabilities, which made them must-see, but they could turn a fight on a dime with their power shots (both left hands, delivered differently).

    I don’t think it’s fair to dismiss this win for Morrison as if Ruddock was some broken-down husk. He was still dangerous and the Duke did his job.
     
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  15. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Antonio Cervantes v Shinichi Kadota (jr. welterweight title) (Japan's 5 point system in effect)

    Round 1: 5-3 Cervantes (scores a knockdown)
    Round 2: 5-2 Cervantes (scores a knockdown and the ref appears to dock Kadota a point for a blatant head butt)
    Round 3: 5-3 Cervantes (scores a knockdown)
    Round 4: 5-3 Cervantes (scores a knockdown)
    Round 5: 5-3 Cervantes (scores a knockdown)
    Round 6: 5-4 Cervantes
    Round 7: 5-4 Cervantes
    Round 8: Cervantes drops Kadota 3 times and the bout is stopped

    Total through 7 completed rounds: 35-22 Cervantes (actual scores: 35-23, 35-24 and 35-25 all for Cervantes)

    I imagine one would look at this and say it was one-sided. And on points it was. But Kadota continued trying to make a fight of it in the inside. I saw him fight years ago against Juan Collado and he gave Collado a body-pasting for 10 rounds, so I knew he was good on the inside. But Cervantes kept catching the awkward southpaw with a counter which kept piling up the knockdowns. He finally turned up the heat in the 8th to finish the job. Incidentally, I don't know if the other officials took a point off Kadota for the 2nd round headbutt, but it sure looked like the referee deducted that point, so I followed suit, and it was blatant.


     
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