Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mantequilla, Nov 20, 2009.
Czyz entered to one of my favorite songs of the early 80s, Fame!
Rewatched this a couple of years back. This is what I wrote:
Mustafa Hamsho v Bobby Czyz
Strangely enough, although this fight was fought on the undercard of the Qawi-Davis world title fight - which was scored on the WBC 10 point system - this bout was fought under NJ rules on a rounds basis. Here we go.
Round 1: Even
Round 2: Czyz
Round 3: Hamsho
Round 4: Hamsho
Round 5: Czyz
Round 6: Hamsho
Round 7: Hamsho
Round 8: Czyz (This was Hamsho's round but he loses the round due to roughousing with the forearm. In NJ and NY's rounds scoring, if someone is penalized, obviously they don't lose a point, the round simply goes to the opponent. If the opponent won the round anyway, there is no penalization. A very flawed system)
Round 9: Hamsho
Round 10: Hamsho
Total: 6-3-1 Hamsho (Actual scores: 7-3, 7-1-2 and 5-4-1 all for Hamsho)
Czyz simply couldn't do much against Hamsho's mugging style. A little too much too soon, but he showed guts with the hammering he took in close. A very lively 10 rounder which moved very quickly.
My memory is that a lot of people took pleasure in seeing young Bobby get mugged but I thought he showed pretty well — not that he won the fight or even came close, but he had the heart and in flashes showed some ability to compete at a higher level. True learning experience fight.
Thanks to @Flo_Raiden for putting this on my radar.
Katsuo Tokashiki v Lupe Madera I (Lt. flyweight title)
Round 1: 10-10 Even
Round 2: 10-9 KT
Round 3: 10-9 Madera
Round 4: 10-9 Madera
Round 5: 10-9 KT
Round 6: 10-9 Madera
Round 7: 10-9 KT
Round 8: 10-9 Madera
Round 9: 10-10 Even
Round 10: 10-9 KT
Round 11: 10-10 Even
Round 12: 10-9 Madera
Round 13: 10-9 Madera
Round 14: 10-9 Madera
Round 15: 10-9 Madera
Total: 146-142 Madera (actual scores: 146-142 Madera, 145-143 and 144-141 both for Tokashiki for a split win)
To begin, so many of these rounds are so close that scores could be meaningless, but I did feel Madera was busier and his body shots carried enough freight to take this. Conversely, Tokashiki was the heavier puncher but got sloppy as the fight progressed. Still, a tightly contested fight. I will say one thing, Stanley Christodoulou was really a worthless referee. I know he was a WBA house ref, but as I have mentioned in past posts, he cautions, cautions and cautions but never takes a point. This can't be lost on the fighters who repeat the same infractions and probably come to the conclusion, "Well, f*ck it, I'll just keep doing it." And this fight was no different. I can't tell you the innumerable times he cautioned Madera for low blows and cautioned Tokashiki for a shoulder butt. They just kept it up throughout the fight. And why wouldn't they? No penalization. Good fight, though.
Just rewatched one of the best fights of recent years Katie Taylor v Amanda Serrano
Round 1 : 10 - 9 Taylor
Round 2 : 10 - 9 Taylor
Round 3 : 10 - 9 Serrano
Round 4 : 10 - 9 Serrano
Round 5 : 10 - 9 Serrano
Round 6 : 10 - 9 Serrano
Round 7 : 10 - 9 Taylor
Round 8 : 10 - 9 Taylor
Round 9 : 10 - 9 Taylor
Round 10 : 10 - 9 Taylor
Total : 96 : 94 - Taylor
Emanuel Navarrete D12 Robson Conceicao
What i'm interested here is how Conceicao solves Navaratte's rhythm-breaking style, if he does. The early stragegy is hard single shots, or shots in twos, while staying on the front foot. A very hard overhand right wins him the round, clearly, but we need to see if that's a one-off or not, as a round, not a punch, he lands some good shots in this first where Navarrete looks a little "off".Conceicao outhits him at the range though in the second, Navaratte is getting no joy circling ot his left as Conceicao just steps with him and looks to land heavy single punches and a quick, flashing jab designed to take control of the real-estate rather than cause harm. It's the winging right again that gets him the round, this is a bad start for Navarette. A slight loss of control by Conceicao at the end of the third doesn't prevent him from taking a sizeable lead but that minor loss of control heralded a major one in the fourth. This is why Navarette is so dangerous, he is both powerful and unexpected. Conceicao is doing a hop, a hop away from Navarette's power hand, it opens up some space for those winging hooks and uppercuts coming the other way. Conceicao iosn't dropped heavily, but he is dropped, a short combo ending in a winging uppercut but Navarette was on his way to winning that round anyway possibly - that said Conceicao gets right back to work. It looks to me like he chose the knee. Superb fifth round, great stuff, first minute there is missing, second minute there is a war, both landing big punches, the thrid round more cautious, I loved it. I scored it for Conceicao who I feel boxed back wonderfully here and dominated the exchanges. A dangerous game but he is playing it and is close to really taking control of this fight. If he wins three more rounds that puts him in a special spot.
Sixth feels key - I have it for Conceicao but it was heavily contested and very very close. It seemed to me that Conceicao was outlanding Navaratte in this round and that for all that Navaratte was landing the heavier punches, Conceicao too had some steam on his shots. Clearly outlanding and out-throwing Navarette both to body and head. Navarette comes bombing back with a bodyshot KD in the seventh though! It was like a shotgun, holy ****, it was like he just bowled him over. That is memorable. He doesn't seem hurt and has gone back to work again. And a wonderful response in the eighth. His gameplan seems to be to out-squabble Navertte at a specific distance, to outjab and out-right him, to hit him when he tries to step off, to take advantage of his lack of grace, and to hold when it goes wrong at mid-range. This is where holding is valid in a fight, it's a good, exciting fight and it's deployed tactically, it's not a jab and grab and it is not spoiling the fight. It is helping Robson Conceicao win the fight though! Clearly wins the eighth. Pretty clealry wins the ninth. Clearly wins the twelfth. Interesting though on the holding: referee Thomas Taylor had a great night, and at the beginning of the tenth he warns Conceicao about holding and maybe just by coincidence, but maybe not, Naverette nicks the round in the final thirty seconds with bodyshots on the inside. Maybe Conceicao was conscious of over-holding after the warning and it changed up the dynamic. Conceicao is clearly discomforted by bodyshots in the tenth and also drops the eleventh to make Conceicao a close victor on my card. Conceicao's effort in the twelfth has to be seen to be believed. He literally staggered back to his corner at the end of the 11th and looked done. Out he comes and puts them together and Navaratte doesn't quite have the technique to get him under control.
* Conceicao down.
So Navarette's power saves him, IMO, although it is worth noting that he is the only man with a winning scorecard. Without the KDs though, he's lost this fight. I have it 114-112 Robson Conceicao. I suspect the sixth is the swing so a drawn scorecard is absolutely valid, that round was a cointoss.
Tell you what else: these men show one another great respect after this fight. Hugs, smiles, bows, Navarette gives Robson full credit and says he wants to fight him again. Robson said he thought he won it but called Navarette a "wonderful fighter." I love boxing so much when it is conducted by adults.
Too bad Conceição has no power, he would be so exciting and dangerous... could be a big star.
Should have nicknamed himself Bobby “Hot Lunch” Czyz.
Highly underappreciated 1980s movie.
Watched tqo fights i the past couple days, but am at home this past week trying to recover from double pneumonia and frankly tailed off a bit in my attention span when I tried to score them.
One was the second fight between Sergio Palma and Ricardo Cardone, with Palma defending his WBA 122-pound title. It ended up being a TKO12 for Palma, and really the issue was not was going to win but just how much punishment could Cardona take. As it turns out, a lot. I gave Cardona the first, where despite his advantages in height and reach, was seemingly content to meet Palma in the trenches and rifle uppercuts through his guard. At first I thought it might have just been a psychological thing, in order to establish his share of territory and keep the aggressive Palma on his best manners but upon closer inspection I think it was just because he had no legs anymore and couldn't move and keep distance.
Each round looked the same from there on, with Palma ramming Cardona up against the ropes and hammering away. Cardona threw back, but with his position against the ropes and the impression that gave, it was difficult to award him much but kudos for his courage and resolve. I think I have him one of the late rounds too, where Palma let up some and allowed Cardona to occupy ring center more. I think it was the tenth, but who knows.
In the twelfth, Cardona is finally sent down from a hard shot. He goes to his knees and while it was of course a good punch, it was nothing more than he had been taking all along. He was simply not able to absorb more. He managed to get up, but a flurry along the ropes prompted a stoppage in Palma's favor. A one-sided beating really.
The second one was the first encounter between Pernell Whitaker and Wilfredo Rivera. Whitaker had been ill in training, and it showed. He took the bulk of the first few rounds, as Rivera was purposeful and stoic but not busy enough, and allowed Whitake to fight and rest as he pleased for the most part. It was tense and close, but Whitake did better early.
Then the tide turned, and despite a headbutt-induced cut at Rivera's hairline, Whitaker began to tire and look sloppy, missing many more shots than we're used to seeing him miss. He gasped for air and lunged with off-balance haymakers often. Rivera began to switch to lefty a lot in order to lessen the exposure to the cut side of his head, and it troubled Pernell. Rivera rarely landed cleanly, but he was outlanding Whitaker now, who typically gained momentum in the second half of fights. This was new. Rivera took the last two on my card and I think I scored it 7-5 in favor of Rivera. Whitaker won by split decision, and the final score of 117-112 in his favor was a travesty.
Sal, first of all, I hope you're feeling better, my man. Secondly, two decent fights to check out during your convalescence. I too was mystified over the scores on Whitaker-Rivera. This is what I wrote when I reviewed it:
Pernell Whitaker v Wilfredo Rivera I
Always heard about the controversial decision in this fight and thought I would check it out, although I probably saw it live but just not recalling.
Round 1: 10-9 Whitaker
Round 2: 10-9 Whitaker
Round 3: 10-10 Even
Round 4: 10-9 Rivera
Round 5: 10-9 Whitaker
Round 6: 10-9 Rivera
Round 7: 10-10 Even
Round 8: 10-9 Whitaker
Round 9: 10-9 Rivera
Round 10: 10-9 Rivera
Round 11: 10-9 Rivera
Round 12: 10-9 Rivera
Total: 116-114 Rivera (actual scores: 116-113 Rivera and two scores of 115-113 and 117-112 both for Whitaker for a split win)
Harold Lederman's score of this fight was 115-113 for Rivera, but we had about 3 rounds differing. Still, Rivera should feel bruised and it wasn't from Whitaker's punches. He won that fight. Two other of our posters scored this fight. Sweet Scientist had it a draw and McGrain also scored it for Rivera. So there is a definite controversy there if anyone wants to check it out.
Agreed. It was Whitaker at his worst, and the effort of Rivera should have been rewarded.
Hanging in here. Amoxycillin is a good thing.
Here's a fight I just saw out there and checked it out. My God, this is a pristine film. The Japanese know their stuff when it comes to film.
Koichi Wajima v Miguel DeOliviera II (jr. middleweight title)
Round 1: 5-4 Wajima
Round 2: 5-4 DeO
Round 3: 5-4 DeO
Round 4: 5-5 Even
Round 5: 5-4 DeO
Round 6: 5-4 DeO
Round 7: 5-4 Wajima
Round 8: 5-4 Wajima
Round 9: 5-4 DeO
Round 10: 5-4 DeO
Round 11: 5-4 DeO
Round 12: 5-4 DeO
Round 13: 5-4 DeO
Round 14: 5-4 Wajima
Round 15: 5-4 Wajima
Total: 70-66 DeOliviera (actual scores: 73-73 and two scores of 73-70 and 74-71 both for Wajima for a majority win)
To begin, I remember when this fight took place after their previous draw, which was panned by the magazines at the time of a hometown decision. This decision was announced and the mags just ran with it - probably from a Japanese correspondent - and that was that. Well I just went along too all those years thinking Wajima (Mr. Rematch) came back with a better plan. Well, he didn't. This was like the Angel Espada-Clyde Gray fight where one receives a report from a hometown scribe and thinks it was as he said. Well. I thought Gray won that fight and I think DeOliviera won this fight too. DeO was a sharp boxer, who controlled the center of the ring well, but was very strong on the inside as well and didn't mind whacking the body in close. I think he could have done with a sharper jab though, as it seemed his jab were more in the line of taps. As for Wajima, he was as unorthodox and as awkward a fighter as one could see. His plan was to grill DeO against the ropes, which he did to an extent as one could see the profound rope burns developing on the back of DeO. However, he was so wild, many of them were picked off by DeO's tight defense, I will say one thing about the Wajima attack though. Around the 7th or 8th I noticed he had great success at tagging DeO with a left hook. despite DeO's tight guard this got through every time. however, I never really saw this exploited after that. Whether the Wajima corner didn't notice it or what.
Regarding the decision, when you have 3 Japanese officials scoring the bout, your chances are slim without a KO or at least a couple of knockdowns strewn in. To be clear, in rounds, they scored this 5-2-8, 4-1-10 and 2-2-11 respectively. My God, have you ever seen such fence-sitting in your life? Those Even rounds were simply protecting their fighter.
What's the old joke, how Japanese boxing judges probably scored WW 2 even?
LOL!! That’s awesome!
Vic Darchinyan v Jorge Arce (super flyweight title)
Round 1: 10-9 Vic
Round 2: 10-9 Vic
Round 3: 10-9 Arce (best round)
Round 4: 10-9 Vic
Round 5: 10-9 Arce
Round 6: 10-9 Vic
Round 7: 10-9 Vic
Round 8: 10-9 Vic
Round 9: 10-9 Vic
Round 10: 10-9 Vic
Round 11: 10-8 Vic (battering)
The bout is stopped between rounds due to cuts around the eyes of Arce
Total through 11 completed rounds: 108-100 (actual scores: all 3 officials scored it 109-100 for Vic)
I was more generous to Arce giving him 2 rounds of the fight. Man, the dude was a warrior, but Darchinyan had lethal power in his shots. I personally would have pulled Arce after the 10th round. He was cut, getting battered and had no chance of winning unless one was riding the hopes of a lucky punch KO. At least the doctor showed some common sense.