the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Muhammad Ali vs Ken Norton I​

Rounds Won/Even
Ali - 1,3,8,11
Norton - 2,4,5,7,9,10,12
Even - 6

Notes
- From what I saw, it looked like Norton broke Ali's jaw in the 12th Round when he had him hurt. Cosell commented & said that there was blood coming out of Ali's mouth.
- Norton is the winner by Split Decision

My Scorecard
(A)113 - 116(N)
Winner: Norton​

Review​

A strange fight for Ali with not too much action. I guess Norton's style was just awkward for him. Norton outjabbed Ali and outworked him when they got up close. Ali looked sluggish & lethargic the whole fight and never really got set. A clear win for Norton.

 

Showstopper, I caught that too when Cosell brought up that there was something wrong with Ali’s mouth. He even dwelled that it might be a broken tooth. But that was in the 8th round he brought that up. So I think the jaw break came mid-fight. Just speculating.

 

Evander Holyfield v John Ruiz I (heavyweight title)

Round 1: 10-9 Ruiz
Round 2: 10-10 Even
Round 3: 10-9 Holyfield
Round 4: 10-9 Ruiz
Round 5: 10-9 Ruiz
Round 6: 10-10 Even
Round 7: 10-9 Holyfield
Round 8: 10-9 Holyfield
Round 9: 10-9 Ruiz
Round 10: 10-9 Holyfield
Round 11: 10-9 Ruiz
Round 12: 10-9 Holyfield

Total: 115-115 Draw (actual scorecards: 116-112, 114-113 and another 114-113 all for Holyfield)

To hear Steve Albert and Bobby Czyz at ringside scream robbery, one would think there was another Brinks job having taken place. That is how much they were behind Ruiz throughout the fight and never changed their dialogue. IMO, this was a close fight. This was not the Evander of old but I thought he did enough to stay neck and neck with Ruiz, pulling it even on my card with a strong 12th round. I feel a draw would have been the proper decision. At least I got a chance to see Norman Stone pulling his antics once again at the end of the fight and remind us all on why he was so obnoxious.

 

Great place to find fights we've never seen.

 

How was this from an entertainment standpoint

 

It started out pretty good through about the first 3 rounds with some real brisk exchanges, but after that it bogged down a bit when Holyfield gassed out. Remember this was a 38 year old Vander. Through many of the middle rounds Holyfield did little and Ruiz was content to do a jab and clinch. It picked up again late, so I'll just say it was OK with many close rounds. And again, don't listen to Steve Albert and Bobby Czyz. It seems like they had a narrative and stuck with it.

 

Thanks for that guys.

What were Ali's top 3 post-exile performances?

 

Muhammad Ali vs Ken Norton II​

Rounds Won/Even
Ali - 1,3,4,6,10,12
Norton - 5,7,9,11
Even - 2,8

Notes
- I scored it 6-4-1 for Ali

Scorecard
(A)116 - 114(N)
Winner: Ali​

Review​

A good, tactical bout, with Ali making many adjustments from the 1st fight - which saw him being far more effective against Norton. His constant movement, circling & jabbing gave Norton fits in the early rounds. Norton was able to trap Ali at times, hit him to the body a lot, and hurt Ali a few times - particular Round 7 & 11. A very close fight. If I were to give Norton the rounds I scored even, then it'd have been a draw on my scorecard.

 

This content is protected

 

Larry Holmes W15 Carl "The Truth" Williams

I watched this live back in '85 with my dad and grandfather when I was 17, and very heavily into my newfound passion of boxing. I remember vividly watching it and seeing the rounds tick by as we all thought Holmes was losing his title, and the reaction of my father and grandfather to the decision was one of derision and scoffing, coupled with memories of "real" champions like Marciano and Louis. Ah, the generations may turn but the sentiment never changes.

At any rate, I'd never scored this one, left with only decades-old memories of a vague injustice of some kind. Time to rectify that. Williams looks sharp and confident early, snapping a faster and more plentiful jab, with Holmes looking every day of his 35 years. He can't get off, and when he does, his jab is creaky and slower. He can't match Williams, who grows in confidence as the early rounds progress.

Then Holmes turns the tide, as great champions do. He realizes the futility of matching jabs with his younger opponent and decides to use his right hand, particularly to the body, hard digs that had Williams doubling over in the ninth round especially. He has trouble reaching his challenger with rights over the top as Williams is taller and bigger, but Holmes turns brawler in the middle rounds to retake the initiative.

But he is 35, and energy wanes.......Williams regains control for a couple rounds as Holmes can't sustain his attack, and Larry must dig deep to throw himself at Williams and continue his attack on the ribcage in the final two rounds, which saw an overconfident and perhaps tired Williams slow his attack to a crawl, enabling Holmes' own only marginally effective counteroffensive to carry the day in rounds 14 and 15. It was this that enabled him to retain the title, at least on my card. The two judges scores of 146-139 were off-base I think. Here's how I had it.

1. Williams
2. Williams
3. Even
4. Williams
5. Williams
6. Holmes
7. Holmes
8. Holmes
9. Holmes (best round of fight for Holmes)
10. Williams
11. Williams
12. Holmes
13. Williams
14. Holmes
15. Holmes

143-143, draw.

Hate to be a fence-sitter but there we are.

 

Riddick Bowe vs Tony Tubbs

1 Bowe
2 Tubbs
3 Bowe
4 Tubbs
5 Tubbs
6 Bowe
7 Bowe
8 Bowe
9 Tubbs
10 Even

95-94 Bowe

Close fight this was Bowe's Doug Jones and James Tillis type fight a good learning experience before he become champion against a tricky veteran. I thought Bowe edged it with his aggression and harder punches. Tubbs had great defence and made Bowe miss a significant amount of punches but he wasn't active enough to actually get the nod for me.

 

Sal we disagreed on one round but we ended up with the same score, amazingly you also agreed with me that the 3rd round was even.


Carl Williams vs Larry Holmes

1 Williams
2 Williams
3 Even
4 Holmes
5 Williams
6 Williams
7 Holmes
8 Holmes
9 Holmes
10 Williams
11 Williams
12 Holmes
13 Williams
14 Holmes
15 Holmes

143-143 Draw

I've only seen this fight once and it was years ago and i never scored it, but my impression was the 1st time i watched it was that Carl Williams won the fight having watched it again i scored it a draw.

I remembered Williams dominating the first half of the fight, and Holmes dominating the championship rounds. But when i watched it again that wasn't quite the case.

Williams for certain won the early rounds out jabbing Larry Holmes, but Larry Holmes still kept it somewhat competitive in the early going. Because at times Williams would only just throw the jab and i think Holmes nicked some of the early rounds with his right hand and body shots.

The 9th round was Holmes best round of the fight as he hurt Williams with a body shot, and landed some good right hands that may of stunned Williams. But i felt like after Holmes after having few strong rounds 7, 8, 9. He allowed the momentum to shift back to Williams. As Williams out jabbed Holmes from the outside once again.

Now going into the 12th i remembered it as Holmes dominating the last 4 rounds, but that wasn't quite the case either. Yes Holmes upped the pace and landed some good body shots but he certainly didn't dominate. It was more that Williams coasted maybe thinking he'd won the fight although i still think Williams won the 13th round. But Holmes for me won 3 out of the last 4 rounds to do enough for a draw on my card.

Final thoughts there was atleast 2 rounds that could of gone either, as you can see i scored the 3rd round even as i couldn't split them in that round.

I think if anyone scores this fight it's all down to how many rounds you thought Holmes won in the first half of the fight. The 1st half of the fight was alot tougher to score than the 2nd half for me.

 

Muhammad Ali vs Ken Norton III​

Rounds Won/Even
Ali - 1,7,9,11
Norton - 2,3,4,5,6,12,14,15
Even - 8,10,13

Notes
- I scored the bout 8-4-3 to Norton
- Ali is declared the "winner" via Split Decision

My Scorecard
(A)142 - 146(N)
Winner: Norton
Actual Winner: Ali ​

Review​

A fairly underwhelming bout with only spurts of action from both men. Ali won the first round but did nothing but lay on the ropes for the next five. Norton pressed the action, threw more punches & landed the harder shots. I used to think that Ali just nicked it in the past, but after rewatching it, this was a robbery as far I'm concerned. Ali didn't do enough to win or even get a draw.

 

D, you and @salsanchezfan had great cards. Funny enough, when I first saw the fight live I just tabulated the score in my head and had it a draw then as well. But 2 or 3 years ago I sat down and gave it my full attention and this is how I had it:

Larry Holmes v Carl Williams (heavyweight title)

Round 1: 10-10 Even
Round 2: 10-9 Williams
Round 3: 10-9 Williams
Round 4: 10-10 Even
Round 5: 10-9 Williams
Round 6: 10-9 Williams
Round 7: 10-9 Holmes
Round 8: 10-9 Williams
Round 9: 10-9 Holmes
Round 10: 10-9 Williams
Round 11: 10-9 Williams
Round 12: 10-9 Holmes
Round 13: 10-9 Williams
Round 14: 10-9 Holmes
Round 15: 10-9 Holmes

Total: 145-142 Williams

I'm not one to give points for reputation as Ferdie Pacheco drones on throughout the contest. One has to earn it IMO. Actual scores were 143-142 and 2 scores of 146-139 all for Holmes. There is simply no way anyone could give Holmes that fight on those last two scores. That is 11-4 in rounds, which simply no one with any shred of knowledge or decency could come up with. Holmes was clearly outpointed in this bout, IMO. Moreover, I looked at the two judges who scored the bout lopsidedly for Holmes. And its interesting to note, Paul Gibbs was participating in his 6th judging assignment and Al Rothenberg, whom I knew as Pernell Whitaker's hand-picked referee that he took with him everywhere. In a nutshell, Williams had a right to feel like he was mugged.