the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mantequilla, Nov 20, 2009.



  1. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Jorge Lujan v Cleo Garcia (bantamweight title)

    There was a recent thread on the Forum called 'The worst title challengers' or something to that effect and I was going to chime in with Cleo Garcia. Mainly from what I knew of him, which, according to boxrec, was a fighter fighting for the title with a record of 6-4-1 but advertised going into the fight with a ledger of 21-9-1. One thing noticeable was a record devoid of wins over anything even remotely world class. So how was he the #2 contender for the WBA? But hold on. After this fight, he went on to fight for another title, losing to Leo Cruz for the super bantamweight title. And he managed that by losing to Bernardo Checa. What the hell? Did he have naked pictures of WBA officials in compromising positions? How is he getting these shots and was he all that bad? So, rather than bring him up on that thread I decided to watch him in action to see if there was anything salvageable on this fighter.

    To be honest, he was very strong in there with Lujan and he did not display any amateurish moves. Also, he was in excellent condition. However, he threw only punches in ones. No combinations, which was something Cosell finally picked up on around the 9th round. Also, he was a sucker for Lujan's overhand right. He kept it somewhat competitive until the 11th round, which is when his wheels started coming off the chassis. Decked in the 14th and sunk to his haunches in the 15th with all the fight in him gone, it was finally stopped. I don't know the official scores but I had it 140-125 for Lujan through 14 rounds, with every round to Lujan. I would classify Garcia as a good club-fighter who should never have seen the day he would be fighting for a world title, let alone twice.
     
  2. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Pete Ranzany (c) vs. Ray Leonard, scheduled for 12 rounds for the NABF welterweight championship on Aug. 12, 1979, at Caesars Palace Sports Pavilion in Las Vegas.

    Ranzany, 45-3-1 (28), is making his first defense of the North American title he won in his previous bout with a cuts stoppage over Clyde Gray. He has some notable wins (Gray, Jimmy Heair, Randy Shields, Bruce Finch) and a KO 2 loss to Pipino Cuevas in a previous try for the WBA title. He is ranked No. 3 by the WBC.

    Leonard, 23-0 (13), is ranked No. 2 by the WBC. He holds a decision win over Ranzany in the amateurs.

    Both weigh 147.

    1: Even — Ranzany was busier and did well the first two minutes while Leonard only threw maybe a couple of jabs. Ray starts throwing in the last minute, his jab snapping Pete’s head back a few times to go with a couple of body shots and a hook. Some of Ranzany’s work was glancing, but still enough for me to call it even.

    2: Leonard 10-9: Ray warms to the task now and finds the mark with much of what he throws. Pete does some good work in spurts but has trouble landing cleanly.

    3: Ranzany 10-9: Again, a bit more work and Ranzany lands a couple of effective rights. He puts Ray in a corner at one point and gets in a few shots.

    4: Leonard hurts Ranzany with a blazing right hand and tees off. He puts Pete down and then greets him with a barrage when the action resumes after an eight-count. He batters Pete around the ring and finally referee Joey Curtis steps in as Leonard lands tees off with a series of rights. Pete is clearly defenseless and out of it when the fight is halted at the 2:41 mark.

    My card: Even at 29 apiece. No scores I can find but apparently Pete was ahead on all three cards through three rounds.

    This is, to me, Ray’s real coming out party as a fighter who is headed to a world title and great things. He was rising up the ranks but this to me was a quantum step forward in his evolution.

    Leonard has so much more fast-twitch explosiveness than Ranzany and is an absolute assassin once he hurts Pete and opens up to take him out. Such killer instinct. Pete is a true and deserving contender and Ray completely outclasses him.

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    Last edited: Mar 8, 2024
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  3. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    Alexis Arguello v Alfredo Escalera 1 and 2

    Two of my all-time favourite fights and one of those rare cases where the first fight is a classic but the second is even better. Rewatched these thanks to excellent quality uploads by the Vintage Boxing channel.

    I’ve scored both these fights before on this thread so was just rewatching them for fun.

    Here are my previous cards and write ups for both fights:

    Even though by the 10-point must system I have the first fight slightly closer, the knockdown in round 4 and the 10-7 round 5 in fight 2 skewed the scoring and in reality the second was a closer amd more competitive fight throughout and certainly tougher for Arguello than the first fight. It genuinely felt like Escalera could still turn things round going into the 13th of fight 2 and you could see the relief from Arguello post-fight that he managed to retain his title.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2024
  4. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I was going to dock you two points for never calling the first fight The Bloody Battle of Bayamon, but after reading your post with your past scores embedded, I’m going to allow it.
     
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  5. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    With so much rumblings on these fights recently I figured I would check them out. Haven't watched either since they happened, so here we go:

    Alfredo Escalera v Alexis Arguello I (jr. lightweight title - or, since I don't wish to get docked 2 points from @Saintpat we'll call it the Bloody Battle of Bayamon)

    Round 1: 10-9 Escalera
    Round 2: 10-8 Arguello (scores a knockdown)*
    Round 3: 10-10 Even
    Round 4: 10-9 Arguello
    Round 5: 10-9 Arguello
    Round 6: 10-9 Escalera
    Round 7: 10-9 Arguello
    Round 8: 10-9 Arguello
    Round 9: 10-9 Escalera
    Round 10: 10-9 Arguello
    Round 11: 10-9 Arguello
    Round 12: 10-9 Escalera
    Round 13: Arguello stops Escalera on cuts

    Total through 12 completed rounds: 116-112 Arguello (actual scores: 116-111, 118-112 and 117-110 all for Arguello)

    *Regarding the knockdown. I immediately felt it was a sort of awkward trip and was surprised when it was counted as a knockdown. But i replayed it a couple of times and Arguello did land a left hook on the way in, so it is what it is.

    Excellent fight and I'll give kudos to Mercante for having the stones to make good professional decisions that were very unpopular to the rabid crowd. I've seen a lot of officials get very intimidated by that Puerto Rican crowd but he held to his guns, especially on the stoppage. He also showed compassion to Escalera on the backhands. He saw Escalera regretted them - that they were reflexive - and did not take points. As for the fight, Escalera went out on his shield, landing bombs when he could and had a good 12th round. But those jabs were like razors to Escalera, not to mention Arguello's lead rights and left hooks. I think Cosell said a 4th cut had just appeared on Escalera, which prompted Mercante's stoppage, although I really couldn't tell where. But again, an excellent fight.
     
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  6. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    Scar, I didn’t score round 2 10-8 to Arguello but with hindsight I probably should have. That would have meant we had the same total and I think our RBR was near identical too.
     
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  7. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    @Jel I went at Arguello-Escalera II this morning and amazingly, we both had it about the same - with some differences such as different rounds and points. I recall when seeing this live, this was the first time I had heard about the Casanova gloves and their propensity for blood-letting. Anyways, here we go:

    Alexis Arguello v Alfredo Escalera II (jr. lightweight title)

    Round 1: 10-9 Arguello
    Round 2: 10-10 Even
    Round 3: 10-9 Escalera
    Round 4: 10-8 Arguello (scores a knockdown)
    Round 5: 10-8 Arguello (scores a knockdown and a standing 8-count)*
    Round 6: 10-9 Escalera
    Round 7: 10-9 Escalera
    Round 8: 10-9 Escalera
    Round 9: 10-9 Arguello
    Round 10: 10-9 Arguello
    Round 11: 10-9 Arguello
    Round 12: 10-9 Escalera
    Round 13: Arguello drops and stops Escalera

    Total: 115-112 Arguello (actual scores unavailable but noted on their records that 2 judges had Arguello up by 3 points and 1 judge had him up by 1 point)

    *Regarding the 5th round, according to the rules it should be a 10-7 round for Arguello with the knockdown and standing 8-count, however, Escalera came back so brilliantly in the last minute to batter Arguello, I felt that cleaned the sheet on the standing count. So, a 10-8)

    The fight started sort of sloppily but then really took off. Escalera's modicum of success was when he could negate the Arguello jab by staying in so close he could do his thing. But Arguello managed to get himself outside again and that sweeping left hook that finished Escalera was a thing of beauty.
     
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  8. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    Which of the two fights did you think was better, Scar, the first or the second?
     
  9. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    At first it seemed the second fight started out sloppily but it really gained legs and I found it very competitive with Escalera staying so close to attempt negating Arguello’s jab, which in turn caused the two of them to really engage with some brilliant exchanges. Sorry to get wordy, but the answer is #2.
     
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  10. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    One is the Bloody Battle of Bayamon.

    The other is … not.

    That settles it for me.

    In fact, the rematch was in Rimini, Italy. So not only not in Bayamon, but not even in Puerto Rico (nor Nicaragua for that matter).

    I mean, if Alfredo won the second match and this was the rubber match, it could have been the Trinity in Rimini.

    As it is, they didn’t even call it the Hostility in Rimini nor the Toxicity in Rimini or even the Bloody Morbidity in Italy. Seems like a waste.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2024
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  11. AntonioMartin1

    AntonioMartin1 Jeanette Full Member

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    I was in Bayamon that night...

    Alas I was only 5 and only cared about my Fisher Price Little People and my little also 5 year old neighbor "girlfriend" (we planned to marry when we were "old people at age 20" LOL!)

    I did not care about the fight then.

    Now I do!
     
  12. AntonioMartin1

    AntonioMartin1 Jeanette Full Member

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    I havent watched a fight in a while.//mostly just listening to music and writing and watching movies lately.

    Oh I did watch a couple of fights from mexico between unknown Mexican boxers but that is it.
     
  13. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    The Rumble in Rimini?
     
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  14. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The Brawl in the Boot?
     
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  15. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Tommy Morrison vs. Donovan Ruddock, scheduled for 12 rounds on June 10, 1995, at Municipal Auditorium in Kansas City, Mo., for either the IBC (if you go by boxrec) or IBO (if you go by graphics on the video linked below) heavyweight championship, lol.

    Tommy is 44-2-1 and 227 pounds. He’s gone 6-0-1 with a draw vs. Ross Puritty since being iced by Michael Bentt after beating George Foreman.

    Ruddock is 28-4-1 and 243 3/4 pounds and won his only fight since being iced by Lennox Lewis some 2 1/2 years earlier.

    This fight came up in one or maybe two other threads and I hadn’t seen it since it happened, so I figured I’d revisit it. Really fun heavyweight scrap so I’m glad I did.

    1: Ruddock 10-8 — Watch out for the left hook, watch out for the left hook! Tommy did, and he got knocked down by a right uppercut instead.

    2: Morrison 10-8 — Watch out for the left hook, watch out for the left hook! Razor did, and he got wobbled by a right uppercut (in combo off a couple body shots) instead. There’s a standing eight-count in effect here and Ruddock got one by grabbing the rope to stay upright when he was rubber-legged. Fair enough (you can argue the ropes held him up even if there were no eight-count rule).

    3: Morrison 10-9 — Tommy lands some sinking body shots and a few really powerful, snappy jabs, mostly boxing while Razor stalks but doesn’t throw much. Morrison throws more combos.

    4: Morrison 10-9: Ruddock seems to be having his way the second half of this round and Morrison is tiring (after edging the first half of the round), then the Duke finds a bit of gas in his tank and lands several explosive shots in a flurry late to take it.

    5: Ruddock 10-9 — Donovan discovers he has (a) a jab and (b) a right hand, and uses them both effectively. He’s bossing Tommy around now, leaning on him inside and muscling him while also getting through with some heavy shots. Morrison is gassing.

    6: Morrison wins by TKO at the 2:55 mark. Ruddock was continuing his good work from the previous round but now getting in his snappy left hook and seemed to rock Morrison and then Tommy lands as peachy a left hook as you’ll ever see and Ruddock drops like he’s been shot by a sniper. Morrison follows up with a flurry and Ruddock doesn’t punch back, earning a standing eight. Razor seems to have weathered it by holding (but never throwing) and Tommy keeps going all out, finally breaking through to snap Ruddock’s head and send him stumbling back and referee Ron Lipton stops it.

    It’s a bit controversial, of course Razor argues it, but I don’t have an issue with it. If you’re not hurt, how about throw some punches? And the final combo that caused the stoppage definitely did damage (after a knockdown and standing eight earlier in the round).

    Had Ruddock lasted to the end of the sixth round, I’d have made it a 10-6 … 10-7 if I was being generous.

    My card: Morrison 47-46 through five. Official cards unknown.

    Of note: Roberto Duran and Orlando Canizales won undercard bouts against undistinguished opposition.

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    Last edited: Mar 13, 2024
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