the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Julio Cesar Chavez vs Pernell Whitaker

1 Chavez
2 Chavez
3 Whitaker
4 Whitaker
5 Chavez
6 Whitaker
7 Whitaker
8 Whitaker
9 Chavez
10 Whitaker
11 Whitaker
12 Chavez

115-113 Whitaker


So i rewatched this fight today and i was quite surprised i only had it 115-113 for Whitaker, i thought the first 6 rounds were highly competitive with Chavez starting out really aggressive and i thought Chavez took the first 2 rounds and the 5th round.

Whitaker started to distance himself from Chavez in the 2nd half of the fight as he was landing all the eye catching counter punches and had the better ring generalship. But i still feel Chavez won the 9th round and the 12th round.

I definitely think Whitaker deserved to win the fight but i don't think it was quite as wide as people make out.

I thought Chavez clearly won rounds 1, 5, 9, 12, with the 2nd round being debatable the rest were clearly Whitaker's rounds IMO.

This is my scorecard overall.

 

Hey everyone! Found myself going through page after page on this forum and decided to sign up. This thread has been going on forever! lol. I’m going to go through and get some ideas but if anyone wants to throw some names in the hat of close, or controversial fights for me to watch and score that’d be awesome. Literally starting Azumah Nelson Vs. Jeff Fenech 1 right now. Will post my score after. Also was thinking of watching Benitez Vs. Palomino as well.

 

Welcome aboard, Chris.

 

Lupe Pintor v Seung Hoon Lee (bantamweight title)

Round 1: 10-10 Even
Round 2: 10-9 Lee
Round 3: 10-9 Pintor
Round 4: 10-9 Pintor
Round 5: 10-8 Lee (scores a knockdown)
Round 6: 10-9 Pintor
Round 7: 10-9 Pintor
Round 8: 10-9 Pintor
Round 9: 10-9 Pintor
Round 10: 10-9 Pintor
Round 11: Pintor stops Lee

Total through 10 completed rounds: 97-93 Pintor (actual scores: 97-92, 96-93 and another 96-93 all with Pintor leading)

Tough fight. The Korean arrived to fight and he did so, even though things eventually wore down to one-way traffic. Pintor is the quintessential attrition fighter. He'll just whittle away at the body and head until he senses one weakening and then he goes into the next gear.

 

Nelson V Fenech 1


1. 10-9 Nelson. Wouldn’t argue if someone went Fenech but I thought Nelson landed a couple hard clean shots especially one with like 10 seconds left. Fenech put on the pressure. Very close, even round but I try not to score even rounds if possible.


2. 10-9 Nelson. Same as round 1 although I’d like to see more punches from Nelson. Fenech high workrate but hit all arms and gloves for the most part.


3. 10-9 Fenech. Seems the pressure is starting to work. Now landing cleaner punches and starting to put Nelson against the ropes. Nelson starting to hit gloves but a few definitely got through. Against super close round. All 3 rounds extremely close so far.

4. 10-9 Fenech. Pressure. Pressure. Pressure by Fenech. Aggression wins round for me.

5. 10-9 Nelson. Nelson spent the round against the ropes but felt he landed a lot more pop on his punches and cleaner eye catching punches. Could see others liking Fenech in that round due to optics of Nelson against the ropes and Fenech throwing a lot but didn’t land enough clean imo.

6. 10-9 Fenech. Nelson looks lethargic. Malaria claims possibly substantiated imo. He looks sluggish and tired and just doesn’t seem to be himself. Not Fenechs fault. He actually outboxed Nelson this round.

7. 10-9 Fenech. Effective aggression. Landed cleaner. Threw more. Backed Nelson against ropes. Clear Fenech round imo.

8. 10-9 Nelson. Still looking tired but moved and jabbed for 2/3rds of the round somewhat effectively. Fenech had a couple moments around the 2 minute mark against the ropes but not enough to outweigh Nelson’s moving and jabbing the rest of the round.

9. 10-9 Fenech. Fenech stays applying pressure. Throws more punches. Not accurate but Nelson lands nothing of note at all.

10. 10-9 Fenech. Fenech was all over Nelson this round. Nelson seemed more lively at the start, likely due to his longer rest period for the mysteriously vanishing mouthpiece, but Fenech just smothered him. Clear Fenech round.

11. 10-9 Fenech. Wash rinse repeat. Nelson is throwing wildly and missing. Not getting his gloves back in time after missing. All Fenech in round 11.

12. 10-9 Fenech. Again, piles on the pressure. Ends the round/fight like a man who wants that title.

Final Score: 116-112 Fenech.
Rounds: 8-4.

IMO, this is a CLEAR Fenech win and I’m a huge Nelson fan. 116-112 can look or sound close to some, but honestly, 116-112 is being generous to Nelson. Could even be 117-111 or 118-110. I would honestly say that Fenech was hard done by the judges. On a scale of 1-10, with one being a totally fair decision, and ten being an absolute robbery, I’d call this a 7.5 or an 8. What do you all think?

 

Thank you, I just posted my thoughts on the Nelson Fenech 1 fight.

 

Glad you’re here. Good account. Jeff clearly won it imo but he didn’t shut Nelson out.

I hope you’ve seen the rematch. Azumah was hell the second time around. I wish Sal Sanchez had stayed with us long enough for a rematch just to see if the Professor could work his rematch magic or not. Their first fight is everything to like about boxing.

You’ve stumbled across the best thread on the entire internet devoted to past fights. Some great accounts and scorecard comparisons to be found here. Sometimes I just pick a random old page and scroll through it.

Welcome to the club!

 

Thanks I’m glad I found this! I’ve already went through a hundred pages of it lol. I have seen the second fight, just not in a few years. I’ve seen the 1st one as well, just never scored it before. I’ve never really scored fights before, but I definitely enjoyed doing it for this one and plan to give my opinions on some more. Let me know if you think of some others off the top of your head! I actually watched Tapia Ayala 2 the other night and although I didn’t score that one, I feel judging by the eye test that tapia did enough to win. Thinking of doing Holmes Witherspoon next. I wanna try and do some of the ones that were close, or that some feel the decision was way off. Juan Manuel Marquez vs. Barrera is another one that just popped into my head of one I want to try and score soon. I might’ve seen that one being discussed on this thread actually.

 

Me, @scartissue @salsanchezfan are in total agreement here that Tiberi vs Toney is not the robbery it's made out to be.

James Toney vs Dave Tiberi

1 Toney
2 Tiberi
3 Tiberi
4 Tiberi
5 Tiberi
6 Toney 10-8 point deduction
7 Toney
8 Tiberi
9 Tiberi
10 Toney
11 Toney
12 Tiberi

114-113 Tiberi

Toney had a very good 1st round and almost knocked down Tiberi at the end of the round, after that Toney looked surprisingly flat like he had no energy and Tiberi outworked Toney to win rounds 2-5.

Toney got a 2 point round in the 6th round and had another decent 7th round to close the gap.

Tiberi then outworked Toney again to win rounds 8-9.

But surprisingly i thought Toney won majority of the championship rounds with the much more cleaner effective punches to make it close down the stretch.

A poor performance from Toney he looked flat after the 1st round but it's still a close fight IMO not quite the flat out robbery everyone says.

 

Well since you asked, here’s a few I’d suggest that might meet your criteria:

Holmes-Witherspoon, as you mentioned

Even though it was a KO, Holmes-Weaver is a corker btw, and worth scoring

Hagler-Antuofermo I

Sweet Pea Whitaker-Jose Luis Ramirez I

Arguello-Ramirez

Any combination of Bobby Chacon/Alexis Arguello/Cornelius Boza-Edwards/Rafael Limon are always good.

That gives you a good range of fights in different weights so you can pick what you like (or anything else, really).

I’d defer to @scartissue @salsanchezfan @Jel and @Dynamicpuncher as some of our resident experts in this area, all excellent scorers with excellent observations. Even where we see things differently, I hold their views in high esteem and sometimes go take another look after seeing how they scored something to check my original scoring.

This is my favorite thread in all the internet. So many fights I’ve discovered by reading the accounts and so much wisdom in different ways to weigh this or that in a fight or a round.

Oh, let me also mention Vintage Boxing on YouTube has excellent high-res versions of tons of good and sometimes relatively obscure fights. Great to get a good look at some classics that are a bit blurry elsewhere.

 

Welcome aboard!

I had this one 9-3 for Fenech, though I can't remember which rounds I gave to whom, only watched it live.

Oh, if you're looking for one that might make you decide judging fights is too hard, try Michael Spinks-Eddie Davis. I dunno, some might not find it that bad, but it might be the most difficult thing to score I've ever seen.

 

Man, I gotta feeling you're gonna be a breath of fresh air compared to most of these new guys.

 

I watched a fair few Lomachenko fights over the last couple of days and most of them weren't worth scoring. Either stoppages or near enough shut-outs, but I did write a lot of what I'd seen from him.

Cultured Lead:
- Loma likes to use pitter-patter shots. This takes the form of a pawing or prodding jab. It's not damaging or even bothersome, but it scores points. He also using this constant contact with the opponent to measure distance, get to grips with their defence and suddenly set-up harder shots. These taps also really create his offense to the body.
- He often goes high, low then high again with the jab. An awkward pattern to begin with, which creates a lot of openings. Breaking or changing this pattern creates a large portion of his offence.
- He can throw the jab in a variety of ways. He often paws with it, and also prods. He can throw a sharp power jab, with the elbow directly down which offers no telegraph and with the elbow flared out for speed and to set up the left. He jabs to the body well, and uses his jab to open a guard.
- He often uses his lead to circle around his opponents lead hand, and keeps it extended after shots to redirect counters.
- I like how he controls his opponents' head after the jab. That stiff-arm to the fod when his opponent dips is nice.
- He often uses his lead to circle around his opponents lead hand, and keeps it extended after shots to redirect counters.
- Another trick he does is how he simply removes an opponent's guard by pulling the glove down and hitting with the opposite hand.

- He can throw a beautiful long-arm hook, with only a few degrees bend in the arm. It's an awesome shot to capitalise on openings and Loma likes to use it at the range of his 1-2, especially when hitting around the high guard. Like how he redirects counters, this also reminds me a little of Karate.

- His lead hook is excellent. Brilliant timing and technique, with an ability to throw it at any range and in any way. He throws it well as a counter to the left hook; off the rear uppercut, off the jab and as he pivots. He's also great at setting up nasty lead hooks to the body. He also occasionally throws a short hook, from above then brings it down. It's really cool, and a much cleaner shot than the overhand GGG knocked out Rubio with. He sets up lots of slight grappling off the lead hook as well. Examples include brief collar ties, body control and framing with the forearm. These all give a new dimension of control to his lead hand.

- His lead uppercuts are perfect. At short range, he can sneak them in underneath his opponents hooks and catch them up close, or he can throw them at a longer range as a counter to the jab. Loma likes to add this punch onto the end of his combos, which is very nice. Especially after a lead hook to the body, or off the straight left.



Dynamic Movement

Loma's movement of foot is really something special. Both offensively and defensively, at the same time. It's truly awesome. He uses a quick, Karate-like, in and out style from a bladed stance, in combination with his half steps to draw leads, counter and enter punching range. Once here, he couples this his uniquely freakish ability to shift and pivot around his opponents, using these shifts and pivots from a wider base.

Most of his movement comes from the rear leg rather than the lead. He likes to keep his lead leg in place and use the rear foot to control the angles and his movement. He generally readjusts the lead afterwards, if necessary. He often brings his lead leg about halfway to his rear, then steps back out at a slightly different position. In conjunction with stepping in as he jabs, this is generally how he got his lead foot into the spot he wants it.

He often shuffles his rear foot as he throws his cross - especially after stepping with the jab. It brings him slightly towards the target, and narrows his stance, allowing him to step out to his right, heel first. He drops his weight onto his right leg and pivots to the outside. As soon as Loma's leg touches down, he shifts further past his opponents and steps back into his stance - now perpendicular with his opponent. He also does this but instead of a pivot, he hops on both feet to take the new angle. Something Tyson did often. He also likes to frame on his opponents as he pivoted. This kept his opponents from pivoting with him, and gave Loma more balance, meaning crazier pivots. This is a prime example of Loma uses his feet to enter position where he hits opponents and can't be hit.

Others include:
- Taking a outside foot position, then pivoting across while defending a jab, completely nullifying their right hand, and opening them up to both of his.
- Shifting to his left after a combination basically limits his opponents to just the right hand. Loma, knowing this, can simply defend the incoming cross or uppercut; without having to worry about the lead hook unless he's a step behind - which is rare.

Once he's got a guy on the ropes, he shuffles while punching, bringing his left leg across the opponent, then pivots off the shuffle and hops back into southpaw. He maintains contact with the punches he threw while shuffling, and uses this to balance himself during the pivot. He even ducks as he does it and punches as comes back up, it's beautiful. This disorientares; overwhelms and opens up a hurt opponent.

Making use of the pitter-patter shots, he often steps in with the 1-2 to conceal his steps. He steps across to a wide, orthodox stance; which he concealed with a straight left. He then shifts to his right and L-steps around the opponent to return to southpaw and find room for lead uppercut.

On his way out of an exchange, he often simply walks backwards. He compromises his stance, balance and movement to simply walk backwards in a straight line. This may sound like a horrible mistake, and it is; but I'm convinced he's doing it on purpose coz there's only a few examples of him doing this and countering the **** outta his opponents.

Head & Hand Movement

A lot of his head-movement is clearly a mixture of rapid-fire reflexes, great timing and lots of drills. Some of these drills and guards can be seen merely in his fights. Now, obviously head movement is mostly just avoiding punches as they come at your face, but Loma does some other nice stuff, I wanted to mention.

Baiting.
- Loma often moves his upper-body even when not in danger; this elusive target tempts opponents into throwing tentative, easily predicted jabs which are easily slipped and countered. He decides which punches are coming at him by controlling distance and structuring himself in a certain way. For example, he'd defend the left side of his head and lower his right glove to invite a jab (and vice versa for the cross.

Back-Foot Bob & Weave
- He likes to bob and weave off the back foot, which I find really fun to watch. The way he bobs down and sends the overhand right sailing past him; then weaves right under the left hook which comes a moment later. It's awesome, very well refined. As soon as he's finished moving his head, he's back to moving his feet.

High-Guard Slips & Rolls
- He rarely ever slips twice. He always rolls back to the centreline and avoids getting his head taken off by a stray cross. He rarely slips to the inside, and always slips the way he moves. He tends to stay upright more while using the high guard; and often gives deliberate openings in it to bait his opponents into leading. He's defensively responsible here too, slipping generally after every step and combination.

Stalking from Cross-Guard Crouch
- In the 7th - I don't remember which others - round against Pedraza, Loma employed a southpaw cross guard. He stood side on, right elbow covering his body and his left gloves across his face; crouched down and weaving as he stalked Pedraza. Offensively, this put him in a great position to jab with Pedraza, and to go to his body.

 

Carlos Monzon v Rodrigo Valdez 2

Rd 1: 10-9 Monzon - Monzon very active with his left jab. Quiet round for Valdez.
Rd 2: 8-10 Valdez - Valdez closed the distance well and rocked Monzon several times. Valdez scored a knockdown with a beautiful overhand right. Monzon down for the 2nd time in his career.
Rd 3: 10-9 Monzon- Monzon scored well with his left jab. Rodrigo swung wildly with his left and almost felt through the ropes. Monzon decided not to take advantage of his opponent's mistake and waited until Valdez turned around. Good sportsmanship by Carlos.
Rd 4: 10-9 Monzon - Valdez with some nice work to the body, but Carlos wins based on activity.
Rd 5: 10-9 Monzon - Masterful control of distance by Carlos. Valdez has no solution for his left jab. Monzon with some solid 1-2 combos.
Rd 6: 10-9 Monzon - Monzon opened with a wonderful left hook counter off the back foot and finished strongly with some nice combos.
Rd 7: 9-10 Valdez - Valdez struck Monzon with a powerful overhand right. By far the best punch of the round.
Rd 8: 9-10 Valdez - Valdez was customarily outlanded, but couple of times he managed to cut off Monzon and I believe he delivered more impactuful punches.
Rd 9: 10-9 Monzon - Strong round by Monzon. His left jab is nightmare for Valdez to deal with. Slow-mo replay showed Monzon catching Valdez with a strong right uppercut when he attempted to get on the inside.
Rd 10: 10-9 Monzon - Monzon no longer throwing individual left jabs, but using them as set ups for his overhand right. He inflicted terrible punishment on Valdez and opened up a cut over his left eye. I was surprised Rodrigo managed to remain on his feet. Was tempted to score this round 10-8 for Monzon.
Rd 11: 10-9 Monzon - Some amazing fighting off the back foot by Monzon. He's really one of the best in that regard, isn't he ? Dominant round for Monzon. Valdez looks helpless.
Rd 12: 10-9 Monzon - Valdez picks up the aggression. He is trying to get on the inside, but is paying dearly for his attempts. Some good body work from Valdez, but Monzon is landing more and landing cleaner.
Rd 13: 9-10 Valdez - Intense opening by Valdez. He charged at Monzon and hit him with six successive left hooks. He also did better work for the remainder of the round. Surprisingly good round by Valdez.
Rd 14: 9-10 Valdez - Closely contested round, but I give it to Valdez. He is the one pressing forward and delivering more telling blows. Monzon is starting to rely on clinching to stop his opponent's attacks.
Rd 15: 9-10 Valdez - Valdez wins the final round. Despite the beating he received in the earlier rounds, Valdez surprisingly looked like the fresher fighter in the final stage of the fight. Monzon's punches were noticeably weaker and he wasn't as effective in deterring Valdez from getting inside.

My scorecard: 143-141 MONZON

Referee: Roland Dakin 144-141 MONZON
Judge: Angelo Poletti 145-143 MONZON
Judge: Kurt Halbach 147-144 MONZON

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Spoiler: Fights I have scored on this forum

Usyk - Fury 1: 116-111 USYK
Saddler - Elorde 2: SADDLER wins by TKO in 13th round - 114-113 SADDLER (Fight was originally scored on a 5-point system)
Arguello - Boza-Edwards: ARGUELLO wins by RTD in 8th round - 79-73 ARGUELLO
Beterbiev - Bivol 1: 115-115 DRAW
Barrera - Morales 3: 114-114 DRAW
Usyk - Fury 2: 115-113 USYK
Canzoneri - Ross 2: 8-6-1 ROSS
Pintor - Zarate: 143-141 PINTOR
Pintor - Davila 2: 143-142 PINTOR
Camacho - Mancini: 114-114 DRAW
Marquez - John: 113-113 DRAW
Rodriguez - Griffith 4: 69-66 RODRIGUEZ
Lockridge - Boza-Edwards: 98-92 LOCRIDGE
Whitaker - De La Hoya: 114-113 DE LA HOYA
Saddler - Flanagan: 6-3-1 FLANAGAN
Griffith - Benvenuti 1: 9-6 BENVENUTI (alternatively 143-140 Benvenuti)
Trinidad - De La Hoya: 116-113 DE LA HOYA
Hagler - Leonard: 117-112 HAGLER
Zaragoza - Banke: 115-113 ZARAGOZA
Monzon - Valdez 2: 143-141 MONZON

 

This is a good shout. I’m gonna throw this one on now and try and score it.