the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Teofimo Lopez vs Sandor Martin

Round 1 - 10-9 Lopez - Slippery defences on display, active round but a lot of missing, edged Lopez due to pressure and hitting the target more, even if mostly chest.

Round 2 - 10-8 Martin - The knockdown was not noticeable in real time but the replay shows sufficient evidence of a shot on the top of the as Lopez lunges in. Ultimately I don’t feel Lopez particularly lost the round but he also didn’t decisively win it either so in this instance I’ll stick with a 10-8.

Round 3 - 10-9 Martin, first clear round for me, edging Lopez on clean shots and generally look to keep Teo off balance.

Round 4 - 10-9 Martin, real tricky round, they definitely split stages of it but I’m going to say Martin had more.

Round 5 - 10-9 Martin - winning a round on the defense, ring generalship, frustrating Teo and landing a few clean shots. Not an easy fight to score by any means.

Round 6 - 10-9 Lopez - Chasing the target, had his moments, finished the round with a flurry, Martin didn’t do enough and was fortunate to not have a point deducted.

Round 7 - 10-9 Martin - Cleaner head shots from both, Lopez had a good start, possible knockdown against Lopez but I’m going for that it was a shot on the back of the head rather than cuffing round the side. Martin looked to edge it on cleaner shots.

Round 8 - 10-9 Lopez - Straight right hands to the body are the key for Lopez In this round, seems he’s found a way to reach Martin, less obvious shots but scoring, could benefit for coming rounds.

Round 9 - 10-9 Lopez - That was difficult, less success, had a brief moment where he wobbled Martin, on the whole Martin looks relaxed but not too effective scoring wise. Lopez dejected at the end of the round, pep talk from Dad. I will still give the edge to Lopez, just.

Round 10 - 10-9 Lopez. Both landed a couple of clean head shots, Lopez with a little flurry and chase of Martin round the ring at the end.

Stylistically, really tough fight for Lopez, in accordance to game plan it went much more to the liking of Martin, Lopez was visibly frustrated but at times Martin’s style is not always effective to give him a round scoring wise. Frustrating fight to watch, I know the outcome of course, will add up my score.

My Scorecard: 95-94 Martin

A 96-93 (7-3) 97-92 (8-2) feels extremely fortunate for Teo, overall I don’t feel the verdict is terrible, just a little fortunate for Teo. In another aspect I would have liked Martin to do more to cement the victory but understand this is his style.


Additionally watched the following fights which both had premature stoppages in favour of the Top Rank prospect, frustrating to see despite both being one sided fights.

Muratalla vs Torres
Zayas vs Espadas


In addition, watched Stevenson vs Caraballo, rough times during the boxing covid cards, great body shot finish with Caraballo gasping for air just after.

 

Has anyone checked out the Curtis Cokes v Stan 'Kitten' Hayward scheduled 10-rounder? Man, put away your pens and just check this out. 4 rounds of some of the sharpest exchanges. One can't help but notice the size difference between the two in the first round. Dunphy himself mentioned it in the 2nd round. But funny enough, Kitten was only a little over 3 pounds heavier, but it looked like a boy against a man. But enough text, just check it out and enjoy.

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Love the Kitten, both as a fighter and for having one of the greatest ‘harmless’ nicknames (a la Sweet Pea, Butterbean, Termite Watkins and Bubblegum Kid O’Grady).

 

It's short enough and enough fun to watch multiple times. Yes, the size discrepancy was startling to see, given the weights. Curtis Cokes is one of the most forgotten really good fighters through history, which is unfortunate.

 

Thomas Hearns W12 Virgil Hill

In the ensuing decades since I got into boxing in the early-mid 80's, I have grown to really admire Thomas Hearns. It wasn't always that way. As a younger fan, you need polarization to a degree I think; it's easier. You have heroes and villains; that's part of the fun. Hagler was my first boxing hero. Being such an avid reader, I absorbed everything I could about the fighters of yesteryear, and pieced together the timeline of the sport I discovered and that seemed to suit me best. So much fun.

Thomas Hearns was in my mind the antithesis to my hero. Hagler was solitary, teak-tough, single-minded, and it seemed as if he couldn't have cared less what happened outside the ring. He was built for one thing and one thing only, and that was to chop you to pieces if you dared challenge him. He seemed such a throwback to all these older fighters I had read so much about but he was here in the flesh, in MY era. That made him special. Hearns was part of a team.....the Kronk stable. He had a little "support system," you see, so that counted against him. He wore flashier trunks, he had the jheri curls, he had more fancy athletic gifts. He was everything Hagler wasn't, so I didn't like him.

Of course people are people, and as I gradually realized, few of my original hypotheses were correct or complete about either man. Hearns was just as tough as Hagler, though more breakable. He worked just as hard as Hagler, but didn't advertise it as if he went to a gulag for every training camp. Now I count myself as a huge Hearns fan. In some ways he is now my favorite of the Four Kings. He was never afraid to fight the very best, despite more holes in his game than the other three. He never wavered in the face of adversity or defeat. Never rattled, never swayed. Always striving to be the best but never letting it shake him when he fell short. Lots of lessons for us all there.

Hill is making another defense of his 175-pound title here, one he has held for many years. He's boring, but effective. Hearns is now two years removed from his infamous draw against Leonard, which he probably should have won but in which he still looked slower and older. He enjoys no real height advantage against Hill, and the ravages of age now make him slower and less fluid than his opponent, a rarity.

This is a fight where experience simply won out. It was closer than I thought it would be based on other members' writeups here. This was a winnable fight for Hill, and he did some pretty good work here and there. It's just that boxing is as much about controlling tempo and dictating pace as it is about landing punches sometimes, and Hearns called upon his vast experience to dictate those terms. Hill took Hearns' best shots very well but was wary, and wouldn't charge in. Hell, he never did that against anyone really.

And so Hearns took advantage of this and flurried here and jabbed there and commanded more of the ring. His legs were generally not in use; he was inching forward and making the viewer focus more on him than Hill was. It was that simple. He knew when to push and Hill did not.

Had Hill pressed in the last two rounds he could have swayed the judges I think, but he was true to himself and fought more reactively. Hearns siezed the day and outworked him when it counted. A crowning victory albeit not the prettiest one of Tommy's career.

1. Hill
2. Hearns
3. Hearns
4. Hill
5. Hill
6. Hearns
7. Even
8. Hearns
9. Hearns
10. Hill
11. Hearns
12. Hearns

116-113 Hearns.

 

Had just the amount of time to fit in the following:

Charly Suarez vs Jorge Castenada - First time seeing Suarez, I’ve heard bits about the Navarette fight. He looks old and the age is not the best for the weight but he looked sharp in this, an enjoyable performance, full of aggression and dangerous shots which took out his opponent.


Bruce Carrington vs Jason Sanchez - A familiar name to see Shu Shu in with, speaking of dangerous shots, a fantastic counter left hook took all the senses away from Sanchez, sharp right to follow for the first knockdown. Another knockdown to follow right on the bell, as the bell rung Sanchez being the warrior that he is gets to his feet, I’m sure he would have been taken out by Shu Shu’s superior speed and power in the next but probably deserved the chance.

 

It’s late so didn’t fancy scoring a fight, and fancied some fun fights, why not go for a Mexican. Settled with the wildly unorthodox Luis Alberto Lopez. I think seeing a comment here regarding his unique style swayed me.

Vs Isaac Lowe - Firstly, I thought in hindsight what were they thinking with the matchmaking in this one to bring Lopez in. Leaping left hook in the first 20 seconds to put Lowe down followed by a overhand right in the 2nd, Lowe did well in response to both of those knockdowns, brought the fight to Lopez, just lacked an equaliser. Throwing himself off balance at times Lopez but when he is accurate with the leaping shots and uppercuts, he’s dangerous. A well placed uppercut and body shot moving backwards from Lopez to finish, Lowe dragged himself up at 9 but you definitely felt he did it out of pride whilst hoping the ref would call it, he obliged.

Vs Chirino - A quick runout, going through the motions, vast amount of levels between them.

Switched up to a couple of Boots fights on the come up.

Jaron Ennis vs Armando Alvarez & Raymond Serrano

I caught on to Ennis a couple of years after this but nice to look back and see the glimpse of the special talent coming through. Both beatdowns.

 

Continuing my Super Six Tournament Re-Watch

Carl Froch vs Mikkel Kessler
Group Stage WBC 168 lb title on the line

I had not watched this fight in a while and I feel this one has the legacy as the best fight in the tournament. I also remember the decision being debated on this forum and Froch feeling like he won. The last time I watched it I remembered really struggling to pick rounds. I never score 10-10 rounds and I hate doing it because the real judges typically don't but the last viewing I gave out a few.

This time I got through the first 4 rounds not awarding any. I had a difficult time separating the two men, I also was on the phone during the rounds so it ****ed me up a little.

I have to say there is something odd about Carl Froch and his style and my eye for judging fights. I feel like I am more charitable than others when scoring his fights. I know many feel he did not deserve the Dirrel fight and most of the YT comments had Kessler 116-112 but I disagreed. I don't know if it's because he hits hard and has a great chin that I over rate what he lands and under rate what he is hit with. He has a unique and awkward style. I think it is easy to write him off as being slow and wide open and easy to hit but I don't think he actually is. He landed plenty of sneaky punches vs Kessler and Dirrel and tucks his chin under his left shoulder and has some head movement that makes him a bit tricky. He gets in trouble when he over extends and gets out of position and is countered.

I hunkered down and began to score more closely in the 5th. I felt Froch won 5 and 6 on the back of hard punching including the cross when he straightened it and his uppercut. I thought Kessler came back strongly in the 7th, 8th and 9th winning all three. Froch looked gassed, his nose possibly/probably broken but Kessler was a little reluctant and wild with his right hand looping it and being less accurate. The replays often showed a lot of Kessler work missing the target. I thought Froch won 10 and 11 before the YT video cut the 12th and announced the decision.

In the rounds I scored I had it 4-3 Froch and if you split the first 4 which they were close it could be 6-5 Froch without seeing the 12th.

I don't really like my score and feel I should watch the 12th and rewatch 1-4 to get a full card. I am curious to see what anyone else thought of this fight

 

Howard Davis Jr vs Vilomar Fernandez, lightweights scheduled for 12 rounds at Resorts International casino in Atlantic City, NJ, on Feb. 23, 1980.

This is scheduled for 12 because it’s a WBC title eliminator. Vilomar is ranked No. 1, Howard No. 2, in the organizations ratings, with the winner moving on to fight James Watt for the championship, so obviously a lot of incentive for both.

The question is … who’s going to be the aggressor? Both have earned reputations as elusive out-boxers who use their feet to flit and move around the ring. It’s an intriguing matchup because it’s all but certain someone is going to have to fight out of character (and it turns out both do at times).

Davis is 12-0 (5), an Olympic gold medalist on a fast track. He beat ranked Termite Watkins last time out and also holds wins over Norman Goins, Larry Stanton and a few other semi-notables (including Vilomar’s brother Jose). He is 24 years old and weighs 134 1/2.

Fernandez is 24-6-2 (7) and is 5-0-1 since his loss to Roberto Duran in his first title try including a win over Alexis Arguello and a draw with Stanton. He is 27 and scales 134.

It is televised by CBS with the always excellent due of Tim Ryan and Gil Clancy on the call.

This is a really fun watch that I recommend. Both have to get out of their comfort zones to win and there are several momentum shifts.

1 — Davis 10-9: Vilomar takes the lead, stalking and trying to infight, while Davis moves and jabs. He out-jabs Vilomar and lands one pretty good right.

2 — Fernandez 10-8: Whoa. Vilomar decks Howard with a left hook as Davis gets careless with his hands down rounding a corner. He runs the rest of the round.

3 — Fernandez 10-9: Vilomar attacks doing good work along the ropes to the body and head as he continues to go against type. He out-jabs Howard, who looks a bit lost.

4 — Davis 10-9: Howard holds his ground a bit more, gets his jab going and pot-shots with left hooks and one clean right.

5 — Davis 10-9: Now Howard really digs in, using his speed to produce some sweet combinations along with some single shots and counters. He turns but does not run or give ground. This is a turning point.

6 — Davis 10-9: The best action round so far as they go toe-to-toe a good bit, with Howard’s speed and combos better but Vilomar landing some good shots. He seems to rock Davis late as he stumbles after a shot but it’s one punch, not major damage and not enough to turn the round for me.

7 — Davis 10-9: Vilomar wings big shots, lands a few, but Howard’s jab and flurries take it.

8 — Davis 10-9: This is his bet round as he cuts loose with combos and punctuates them with clean rights and hooks, backing up Vilomar, who does some good work inside but only in a few spurts.

9 — Davis 10-9: Snappy jabs, snappier hooks and hands are a blur. Howard is becoming a pro here and adjusting from the amateur style, and these are up there with the fastest hands in the business maybe ever/

10 — Fernandez 10-9: Body, body, body. Vilomar gets more aggressive again and does some nice work. The last 30 seconds of the round see the best exchanges of the bout.

11 — Davis 10-9: Holy slugfest, Batman … here we get the brawl we never expected. Vilomar’s solid single shots are impressive but Davis overcomes it with flurries as he lets those hands go. Yeah, he misses as much as he lands but when you throw six or eight and three or four land with emphasis to punctuate the combination, it’s effective.

12 — Davis 10-9: Back and forth as they both dig deep to finish strong even though they’re sloppy and tired. Howard finishes stronger to edge it.

My card: Davis 116-111. Official cards: 118-112, 115-113, 114-113 for a UD.

I remembered this from when I saw it as it aired (and hadn’t seen it since) as a very close affair that maybe Vilomar was unlucky to walk away from with a loss. Not so much upon looking at it again and scoring. Ryan and Clancy do point out that there are very few rounds where either guy has the edge for 3 minutes, lots of ebb and flow. I really want to see how @scartissue @Jel @salsanchezfan and others see it.

Coda: What happens next for these guys? They BOTH get title shots next time out — Davis losing to Watt for the WBC lightweight crown and Vilomar losing to Hilmer Kenty for the WBA. Vilomar follows with a loss to Rudolfo Gonzalez, loses a rematch to Arguello and kind of fades from the scene, although he has one nice (and surprising) upset KO of Monroe Brooks left in him. Howard regroups with a string of wins over guys including Tony Baltazar, Claude Noel and Greg Coverson but loses his next title shot to Edwin Rosario four years after Watts and is up and down after that.

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@Saintpat , here’s my card for Davis-Fernandez….

 

Thank you — definitely some difficult rounds to score where it’s a ‘what do you like’ thing. Vilomar in most of those was landing singular, bigger blows (not necessarily damaging) while Howard was flurrying with a lot of punches missing but usually at least one clean, telling shot getting through.

Even though we disagree on some of those rounds and you see it far closer than I ended up, yours is certainly a fair and valid scorecard for this one.

Hope you enjoyed the watch when you did it.

(BTW, I absolutely love Ryan and Clancy and this is them at the top of their announcing game. Gil catching that Vilomar’s success seemed to come almost exclusively off the right to the body and Fernandez mysteriously abandoning that for several rounds was the kind of thing that made him so insightful and valuable — he made us smarter fight fans.)

 

Pat, this is how I had it and what I wrote:

Howard Davis v Vilomar Fernandez (12 round eliminator)

Round 1: 10-9 Fernandez
Round 2: 10-8 Fernandez (scores a knockdown)
Round 3: 10-9 Fernandez
Round 4: 10-9 Fernandez
Round 5: 10-9 Davis
Round 6: 10-9 Fernandez
Round 7: 10-10 Even
Round 8: 10-9 Davis
Round 9: 10-9 Davis
Round 10: 10-9 Davis
Round 11: 10-9 Davis
Round 12: 10-9 Davis

Total: 114-114 Draw (actual scores: 114-113, 115-113 and 118-112 all for Davis)

Can't remember if I ever saw this back in the day but it was well worth seeing after hearing some chatter that Fernandez was robbed. Indeed, this was no rout as Fernandez went on the attack against the fleet-footed Davis and really controlled the first half of the fight before Davis got off his bike and started fighting back in the second half. For two fighters that really never overwhelmed the audience with excitement, it wasn't a bad fight at all.

 

Wilfredo Gomez v Lupe Pintor (super bantamweight title)

Round 1: 10-9 Gomez
Round 2: 10-10 Even
Round 3: 10-9 Gomez
Round 4: 10-9 Pintor
Round 5: 10-9 Pintor
Round 6: 10-9 Pintor (I had the round even but Gomez was penalized a point for use of his elbow)
Round 7: 10-9 Gomez
Round 8: 10-9 Gomez
Round 9: 10-8 Gomez (Gomez' round and Pintor is docked a point for a low blow)
Round 10: 10-9 Pintor
Round 11: 10-9 Gomez
Round 12: 10-9 Gomez
Round 13: 10-9 Pintor
Round 14: Gomez decks Pintor twice and the fight is stopped

Total through 13 completed rounds: 125-122 Gomez (actual scores: 124-123 Pintor, 126-120 and 125-121 both for Gomez with Gomez leading)

Man, it's been a long time since I saw this. What a great give and take fight. Although ahead, Gomez' face was showing wear and tear. He always had an issue with the most abnormal swelling and this fight was no different. One of those fights that really needs to be seen.

 

If someone were to ask me about memories of Saturdays when I was a teenager (not sure why they would, but you know), the word “RyanandClancy” would probably be the first thing I spit out.

 

Alfredo Escalera W10 Gene Hatcher

Today I watched an unexpected barnburner. This was an excellent, excellent scrap. It was actually the second meeting between these two, with Hatcher taking a ten-round nod the first time. This rematch was held on the undercard of Duran-Moore in June of '83. It features a young, strong measured pressure fighter with the heavier punch in Hatcher against the aged (31) veteran fighting ten pounds above his best weight and trying to reclaim old glories.

It wasn't the easiest thing to score, either. Escalera definitely threw more and opened up a nasty gash to the side of Hatcher's right eye, while Hatcher made the play more often and landed the far harder blows. Neither fighter was ever seriously hurt, though many of Hatcher's shots gave Escalera a little pause.

I never read anything about this decision being debateable, but I can't help but feel Escalera got away with one here. Hatcher showed good schoolbook education with his steady, patiednt attach. He threw plenty of shots, but Escalera threw more. Hatcher's just landed with more "thud" if you know what I mean. He also tended to dictate the tempo and it looked like Escalera was busier playing catch-up than actually getting an upper hand.

The third round is just outstanding; not that the crowd saw much of it, they were too busy fawning over Muhammad Ali, their backs turned away from the scintillating action so that they could watch a man walk down an aisle and take a seat. Good grief. Anyway, that stanza was essentially a three-minute-long exchange. Terrific round.

In the end, while having it close, and admitting I could see a card for Escalera if one was really pressed, I do think Hatcher did the better work here and should have gotten the decision. I'd be interested to see what others think.

1. Escalera
2. Hatcher
3. Hatcher (outstanding action)
4. Hatcher
5. Even
6. Hatcher
7. Escalera (big comeback round, raking Hatcher with combos)
8. Even
]9. Hatcher
10. Escalera (could have gone either way)

97-95 Hatcher.