There is no explanation for this statistic other than Bowe had a bad chin and Futch knew it

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Contro, Jul 29, 2018.


  1. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I think everyone has made some valid points on the subject, but just looking at Saintpat's post has me thinking. Of the names mentioned, to tell you the truth, I was never very impressed with Gonzalez, Seldon and Hide as big punchers. However, Pat brought up Bert Cooper. Now we're cooking. I remember when this took place because I was really excited as far as how this fight was going to go down. Smokin Bert was coming off a 12 rounder with Ray Mercer. And let me tell you, if anyone hasn't seen the fight, try to. Mercer took some hellacious shots from Bert for 12 rounds and he rightfully won. But then Bert is signed immediately to fight Bowe. Now, if I was a trainer who was going to avoid a good slugger, then Smokin Bert would not be my first choice to engage.
     
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  2. Contro

    Contro Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I meant the equivalent of a foreman or a shavers which knocked Norton out.

    Norton's chin looked just fineagainst Holmes
    But a real puncher exposed it.
    Bowe never fought a real big puncher.
    Therefore his chin wasn't really tested and there is no evidence his was any better than nortons because the 205lb version of Holyfield didnt Hit Harder than 1978 holmes
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2018
  3. Contro

    Contro Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Bert was a big puncher but he was wildly inconsistent. He looked absolutely dreadful vs foreman and Bowe. Probably a stylistic thing. Cooper is a relatively safe fight for a tall fighter with pop because of coopers not very fast feet and leaky defense.


    But really even with cooper Bowes resumee is just very devoid of Punchers and of good fighters period.
    If you have to name guys like Seldon... I mean come on.
    Look at the guys razor ruddock, Lennox Lewis, mike Tyson and evander Holyfield took on in the same time frame.

    Riddick Bowe was considered the best active HW in the world by many in 1996 before he fought golota, there was certainly no indication of him being shot vs Gonzalez the year before, where alot of people said "the real Bowe is finally back"

    And I'm not comfortable claiming that one big left hook from a 30lb smaller evander Holyfield inthe Rubber match ruined bowe, because besides that big punch evander didn't do much else in the fight other than look like he is about to keel over from a heart attack.


    To be honest I think Bowe just had one good night where he was fortunate that a much smaller man whose big advantage was faster feet and hands decided to try to knock him out and played right into his hands. And when evander fought that stupidly even gatekeepers like Alex Stewart and Bert cooper gave him all he could handle.
    If Holyfield Had given Bowe the respect he gave foreman and used his speed things would be seen differently.
    And if Holyfield Had tried to knock foreman out and push him back the way he did with Bowe, foreman would have won the title in 1991

    There just isn't much else in his entire career that warrants the hype.
     
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  4. HerolGee

    HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

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    foreman and shavers didnt fight many of the top fighters of the 90s, its a poor example,they are 2 of the hardest hitters of all time. there is no such compare in the 90s.
     
  5. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Foreman and Shavers were big hitters in their day but that doesn't mean their power would translate well to later eras.
     
  6. steve1990

    steve1990 Active Member Full Member

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    Let's also note that Bowe's started to decline by the 3rd Holyfield fight. 92 Bowe would have handled 95 Holyfield from Bowe 3 rather easily.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2018
  7. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Funny, because when I make a similar post about a fighter from the 50s missing out on nearly all the big punchers of the era, you argued me to death.
     
  8. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    He did show heart and showed he could hang in and dig deep when the chips were down.

    Are we glossing over Evander Holyfield a little? His punch dropped Ray Mercer and has Tyson wobbling helpless. Just say in if you had a bad chin Holy would crack it.
     
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  9. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Bowe missed out on some of the better punchers of the era, but he also fought plenty of big punchers who had plenty of size too

    Bert Cooper
    Evander Holyfield
    Jose Luis Gonzalez
    Andrew Golota
    Herbie Hide

    How many heavyweight champions pre 1960 fought this many punchers at 210lb + in size?

    Most of the heavyweight champions fought "punchers" weighing less than 190lb
     
  10. Combatesdeboxeo_

    Combatesdeboxeo_ Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    I never did think about it!! Maybe you right
     
  11. Combatesdeboxeo_

    Combatesdeboxeo_ Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    lol
     
  12. Contro

    Contro Boxing Addict Full Member

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    And he did. With one punch. While he looked like he was having a heart attack.
    it took about a million to stop a gassed out Tyson who was loading up and getting countered on every right hand
    Bowe did not have a chin nearly as good as Tyson or Holyfield who were much smaller guys
     
  13. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    Bowe's chin was questioned since the amateurs when he suffered several KO defeats .. on the other hand Lewis, who's chin many questioned id fight everyone who would fight him .. Ruddock, Tyson, Briggs, Klitschko, Mercer, Bruno, Rachman, McCall, Tua .. Lennox may have fought more punchers than anyone.
     
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  14. Contro

    Contro Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Every. Single. One. Of the top 10 HW Punchers of Bowes era fought atleast 2 others from the top 10.

    Moorer fought foreman Tua and Stewart

    Stewart fought foreman Moorer tyson

    Tyson fought Bruno ruddock Lewis and smith


    Bruno fought Lewis tyson and Smith

    Lewis fought tua Tyson Morrison ruddock etc....


    Smith fought Tyson bruno and Moorer

    Ruddock fought Morrison Tyson Lewis

    Morrison fought ruddock Mercer and Lewis


    Foreman fought Morrison and Moorer






    Bowe fought......cooper.
    Oh yeah and seldon I forgot
     
  15. Contro

    Contro Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Pre 1960? What does that have to do with anything?
    Bowes resumee of punchers is **** poor compared to every single name HW in his own era.
    Every one. Even Morrison and Moorer fought more dangerous hitters.
    Atleast former LHW Moorer picked a popular big guy with an ATG Punch when he defended vs foreman
    Bowe threw his belt in the trash and fought a Dokes that was so shot it's disgusting.
    I mean wtf. The guy is huge, hits hard and often, gets described as the best schooled big man in the world and fights THAT opposition??? Only explanation is there was something to hide.

    Bowe never faced anybody who could really test his chin to tell us how he does H2H against a great puncher. Taking alot of shots vs Holyfield ist great but Holyfield was much smaller than him. How much credit do you really want to give him for taking the shots of someone that he has 30lbs on and who wasn't any more than average punching until he stopped bouncing around and gained another 10lbs of muscle at which point Holyfield didnt have much trouble hurting Bowe anymore


    Norton took every punch in the book vs Holmes but it doesn't tell us anything about how he takes a shot from a KO puncher.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2018