These HW's today are just so incredibly massive/huge. Just freaks really.

I mentioned culture. You can't talk about the thousands of athletes you have no idea about and deduce guilt onto them from some examples from one sport in one country.
I don't know anything about baseball, but do you really think Lance Armstrong and Roy Jones wouldn't have been above their opponents regardless? Was Roy Jones doped up when he dominated at the Olympic games? No one can claim to know what difference if any was made by Ripped Fuel.

 

He said Heavyweights not sasquatch.

 

I think you just have bad genetics. Stop hating on people with great potential.

 

Daniel Dubois is as massive and as powerful as Joshua.

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Hassan Whiteside? Dude look like stiff. If you want to talk about big been with potential talk about guys like Jimmy Butler, Jason Maxiel, Lebron James, Camelo Anthony.

 

I’m not sure how to isolate and quote posts so this reply is going to try to answer some of your points but it might seem random:
1) You were called a liar and that is offensive and it might be projecting our ignorance onto you unfairly. However, when you say that people are insecure and jealous because we aren’t world class athletes now you’re the one projecting and being dismissive. I can reasonably suspect Anthony Joshua and the Klitschko brothers of steroid use without trying to make up for my own insecurities.
2) You are focusing only on genetics and training / diets and dismissing PEDs as unnecessary. I’m stating that genetics, training and PEDs all work together.
3) You say that only B/C level athletes are juicing but the top level guys aren’t- that’s ridiculous.
4) You (and most others) are equating doping with a moral violation- frankly, I don’t. I understand that the pressure to dope, along with the rewards of success, are too great not to dope. Telling athletes that using substances (most of which are already produced in the body) which will burn fat and build muscle, greatly reduce recovery times, increase cardio noticeably and potentially lead to national and world records, gold medals, multimillion dollar contracts and sponsorship deals, leave you and your unborn grandchildren financially set for life and turn you into a national-if not international-celebrity is a futile endeavor.
5) You’re saying to not really focus on Balco or state sponsored programs because they’re not indicative of the widespread tentacles and effects of doping. That is an incredibly self contradicting statement.
6) Lance Armstrong was never a world class grand tour rider until after he and his team became systematic dopers. While I’m convinced that LA doped as early as his teenage years, he showed himself as a one day puncher-roleur type of guy. With the advent of EPO, test, HGH etc he would become the greatest Tour de France rider ever, winning the 21 day race 7 consecutive times.
What we have witnessed across the board in all sports is that athletes are now bigger, stronger, faster and competing at the top levels much longer. This all coincides with the rise of PEDs and chemists and doctors that willfully design and administer them to be undetectable, along with microdosing.
But despite all of this, the scandals and positive tests at the top levels, you’re saying they don’t really work and you don’t know any world class athletes that take them.
Anyway, I can go on but this is sufficient for now.

 

1. No you can’t, there are muscular big guys.
2. There is scientific evidence for training and nutrition. There isn’t for most banned substances in the context of athletic performance due to the ethical issues involved.
3. From my experience with top level athletes (which I assume isn’t the norm here) that is certainly the case. Guys who feel they need help feel they need help for a reason.. they are at a natural disadvantage.
4. I do consider it a moral violation, I am subject to the WADA code as are all my athletes. Most athletes consider it deplorable and a sign of major character weakness.
5. Victor Conte isn’t a sports scientist, he was a salesman selling his story and supplements to gullible athletes and a gullible public. He has no idea about anything, he’s a dishonest crook. State sponsored programs were political moves, not relevant to indidual professional sports.
6. Lance Armstrong was taking what everyone else was. That was the culture of cycling at the time. He was an exceptionally gifted and determined athlete, on a level playing field the result isn’t any different. Not excusing it but that is a sport where physiological limits are being pushed to the extreme. That’s not the case for most sports.

 

1) I can and do reasonably suspect Joshua and the Klitschko brothers of using steroids. Hell, Vitali actually tested positive for steroids in the 1996 olympics.
Look, in order to get big and muscular you need to have the genetics and the diet and lift heavy weights...a lot. To achieve the physiques of AJ, Klitschkos, Holyfield etc you’d be weight training more than boxing.
2) Nobody is denying there’s scientific evidence for training and nutrition- this is a straw man. And, yes there is, scientific evidence for many banned PEDs. HGH, EPO, steroids, clenbuterol etc. These all came from the medical community to the sports community. You can’t be this disingenuous.
3) Aside from your experience, all other documented experience says top level athletes dope and are successful.
4) What do you expect athletes to say? “That’s right, b!tches - we dope! Catch us if you can!” Politicians also say they care about the little people.
5) Victor Conte never claimed to be a scientist - he had a chemist on staff. What he sold was PEDs that provided multiple gold medals and broken records to the athletes that used his products.
Again with your disingenuousness! State sponsored doping were political moves played out in the sporting world! It was propaganda to create national, idealistic pride amongst their countrymen. And they used PEDs because they work!
6) Lance, along with his personal doctor Michele Ferrari, developed cocktails and microdosing schedules. Along with the corrupt UCI.
And are you actually saying that physiological extremes are not being pushed to the limits in other sports?

 

1. Vitali from the 1996 Olympics isn’t relevant in anyway. If you’re familiar with sports training you’d understand that there are periods when athletes do little else other than lift weights. Their physiques are nowhere near what you see on a bodybuilder.

2. You said that genetics, training and peds work together. I pointed out that there is evidence for the first two and none for the third. For a start there is no such thing as a ‘PED’. I’ve already pointed out that there is a world of difference between the clinical population and the athletic population. You have absolutely zero idea about the efficacy of banned substances on performance in even a healthy, active population. Never mind genetically gifted elite athletes.

3. You’ve just given a self-defeating statement. Of course documented cases of cheating demonstrate cheating. Even if these people claim enhanced performance they are in no position to make that claim. Even the best designed scientific studies have methodological problems, an anecdote out in the field means close to zero. There are an almost infinite number of variables they can’t account for and no control.

4. When you coach athletes you become close, a good coach is obviously perceptive and a good judge of character. You know all about their personal life and the culture they’re entrenched in. Of course there is room for individuals to be deceitful and dishonest. This is just my anecdote that I’m very confident about.

5. He sold placebos to athletes who were already elite. Many elite athletes used to wear ‘power bands’ (magnetic bands) on their wrist because they believed they enhanced performance. They used them because they worked! All the tournaments won while people were wearing them!
State sponsored doping was essentially forced on athletes, so again I don’t see the relevance.

6. As was every other elite road cyclist at the time.
Yes, I know that for a fact. Physiology is stressed on a spectrum, from weightlifting to road cycling/cross country skiing. Those sports are the only ones where physiology is being pushed to extremes, so are the only sports where minor physiological advantages can theoretically transfer to improved performance. Everything in between has a combination of demands, meaning there is a payoff/loss whatever direction you push yourself.

 

I agree everyone tall is not naturally strong.
But getting enough calories, especially drinking many of them, & overloading any muscles is not that hard.

With PEDs most anyone can get significantly bigger, without them nah, many will not get very big.
Also some folks CAN get as muscular naturally as a Joshua or Bruno.
A small % of the population, but some with years of effort CAN reach that height/weight & bodyfat % naturally.

And some use & do not look that impressive.
So unless someone is beyond the level of what a small % can develop-or grow extremely fast when not still thin...

DO not automaticlaly conclude they are (or definitely are not) cheating.

 

The real question is why weren't they more successful before.

 

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makes it more interesting, who will triumph? the beanpole? the muscleman? the fatty?