They changed their styles

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by red cobra, Dec 13, 2015.


  1. Nighttrain

    Nighttrain 'BOUT IT 'BOUT IT Full Member

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    I think Ali realized George couldn't hurt him.
     
  2. Momus

    Momus Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Steve Collins put on a clinic against Chris Pyatt, before transforming into a human windmill for his fights with Eubank.

    Calzaghe's style evolved from heavy-handed swarmer to the Calslappy of lore.
     
  3. turnip

    turnip Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Terry Marsh when he fought the American guy Manley I think his name was for the IBF title normally a stand up Euro boxer turned into a two fisted fighter totally out of character.
     
  4. BillB

    BillB Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Ali has told various stories about the rope-a-dope.
    He once said he had planned it from the start after watching the film of Foreman being winded after the Frazier KO.

    Unfortunately, one has to take Ali's words with a huge grain of salt.
    The same for Foreman.
     
  5. Anubis

    Anubis Boxing Addict

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    Everybody knew he planned from the start to extend Foreman, but it's how he was planning to do it which changed after action commenced.

    He told George before their match was he was going to "Dance! Dance! Dance!" all night. He went right after Foreman at the opening bell to bomb him for getting his attention (probably thinking of how George bowled over Kirkman with his hands in Boone's own corner at the opening bell to successfully demoralize Kirkman), then did indeed begin dancing.

    Everybody knew he was going to try extending Foreman. There was no secret about that, but the idea was that he'd tire the big guy out the way Leotis Martin gassed Liston, by staying out of range as George began huffing and puffing while following, but George was no Sonny when it came to ring cutting efficiency and making his opponents trade. (Later, Dino Denis tried the stick and move template Ali intended for Kinshasa, but Dino had neither Ali's power or punch resistance.

    The rope-a-dope was indeed improvised, but it's hardly as if he'd never gone to the ropes before. However, he tried it against an opponent in Frazier who was geared for the championship distance, who that tactic was never going to wear out.

    Foreman actually didn't fight that dopey a fight in Kinshasa, and did blast some massive right hands to Ali's body, but he was really only a five round fighter in the 1970's, and wasn't going to decision Ali on body shots over 15 the way Frazier or Norton might. It was going to be George in five or less, or Muhammad.


    Muhammad had a tremendous surplus of energy remaining after returning to his dressing room, as his demeanor during David Frost's interview made apparent, more than enough vitality to finish Foreman off. George's power was gone, and he didn't have the defense to protect himself against the vicious attack Ali would have assaulted him with in round nine. (The following year, Muhammad battered Lyle from pillar to post to pillar with 46 unanswered punches in 40 seconds, and there were still nearly 2:00 to go in round 11 of that one.)

    If Foreman beat Clayton's ten second count (and I recall seeing other matches where Zack used a stopwatch type count), and Sadler let him out for the next stanza, round nine would not have been a pretty sight. (Ali had considerably more respect and appreciation for former sparring mate Lyle than he would have had for George. Even during the post fight interview he was trashing Foreman, something highly unusual for Muhammad. George might have gotten killed.)

    Foreman looked drunk in that eighth round, just like he later would against Lyle and Young. For that matter, he looked sloshed almost from the opening bell, reaching out like a baby learning how to walk. Ali's straight sharp lightning bolts were slashing between George's ponderous swings. Muhammad was right, he really did resemble a mummy.

    With 54 seconds left in round five, the eventual outcome was established. Seven seconds earlier, Foreman cut loose with the hardest combination he ever landed. Right to the body, hook to the body, hook to the head, hook to the body, hook to the head, two more hooks to the body, all to set up that final monstrous right hand to Ali's jaw. When he steps back to watch his challenger fall, Muhammad drops his gloves to fire back with his immortal, "Is that all you've got?" Of course George has since famously admitted his temptation to say, "Yeah. That's all I've got." We then see a disbelieving Foreman move back in with a tentative jab, but any confidence he might have still had until then has been completely shattered.

    Muhammad began his counterattack ten seconds later with a left-right. Once he actually knocked George backwards with 25 seconds remaining in the round, everybody in the stadium seemed to sense that Ali was not simply going to decision him, but take him out at any time.

    Reviewing round five, I think a real case can be made for scoring it in favor of Muhammad, on the basis of his ring generalship and control of action during the course of those three minutes. Foreman's aggression was not effective over the first 2:15 of that round, while Ali's return fire over the final 45 seconds left George reeling like a seasick sailor.

    The allegation that Foreman might have been drugged does not explain how Ali outperformed him over the first couple of rounds, leaving George with a slightly puffy left eye. Foreman was missing very badly from the opening bell. I've also noticed how Muhammad was subtly redirecting the impact of hard punches George was landing on his arms. This redirection of force can be as draining as missing shots outright.

    Foreman did not have the speed or endurance of Frazier and Norton. Nor did he have the insane flashing impact Shavers later buckled Ali repeatedly with. (Or Earnie's reach, handspeed, or even the staying power Earnie showed with Ali, Roy Williams, or in his first match with Henry Clark.) I don't think he would have ever been able to beat an Ali with a heartbeat.



    Ali told Dundee and Bundini after round five that George was through, and that he was now going to have some fun with him. Foreman has not denied that he was ready to go as early as the outset of round six. He never produced a knockdown beyond round five until his second career comeback, and admitted expending everything he had in the fifth round at Kinshasa with that monster combination.

    To this day, I think Foreman dodged a bullet against Chuvalo, who was really enraged that one was stopped. The Canadian had already shown against Frazier that he himself was the best judge of knowing when to quit, and Foreman was expending himself badly. Chuvalo's wife panicked, inducing Irv Ungerman to panic in turn and begin entering the ring to stop it, but referee Mercante had worked with Chuvalo before, was familiar with Foreman, and didn't seem yet inclined to call a halt on his own. Coming between Peralta I & II, a continuation of Foreman-Chuvalo might have been an interesting test, because Chuvalo did have late round power with imposing physical strength.