Third greatest heavyweight of all time?

I used to go Foreman, I liked the redemption he showed, but now I go along the lines of either Holmes or Johnson, and I slightly edge towards The Black Cloud.

 

Alright, I got to go with Sonny Liston. Can't see Holmes trading jabs with Sonny and his movement is no where near that of Clay, Liston absolutely butchers Foreman, Frazier gets his face hammered into his brain every time he tries to bore his way in, Lennox is a tough one but struggled with those that could jab back, Marciano gives him a fight but Liston is too well rounded, Tyson-Liston is a tough one that I go back and forth on. Liston cleaned out his division as impressively as anyone that has ever done it and his two wins over Patterson are about as impressive as anything I've seen.

Liston's simply the man :yep

 

Holmes' height and reach and speed would allow Holmes to pop Liston in the face at will........... Liston had a great jab, but he couldn't out-jab Clay / Ali at all, and he'd lose the battle of jabs to Holmes as well..........

MR.BILL

 

To be fair, Liston was past prime against Clay. IMO :good

 

Holmes has the best case among those listed, in my opinion.

 

Liston didn't train right for his fight with Ali and was drinking heavily.

Even so, if Holmes could move around with as much quickness and grace as a 64 Cassius Clay I've never seen it.

 

UMMM no. Liston argueably had better head movement than anyone Holmes ever fought. Liston also had a powerful jab himself you know. The Type Larry Holmes didnt like stuck in his face, as seen in the Tim Witherspoon and Carl truth Williams fights. Holmes also had a poor habit of trying to brawl his way out of trouble. If Sonny hurts holmes, expect the end to be near. Holmes had speed. but not the speed of Ali needed to beat Liston. I favor Sonny to beat holmes..and do alot of damage to Larry in close quarters.

 

Sure, but Holmes was much better than Cleveland Williams or Eddie Machen ever were / was................. Liston hammerd them dudes back in '59 / '60........ Holmes smacks Liston pretty often and easy if you pit the '60 Liston against the '80 Holmes in a time machine........
:bbb

MR.BILL

 

I don't rate Head to Head when ranking the greatest heavyweight of all time because its silly, unfair, and has far too many factors based on speculative subjectivity. When we did the Greatest HW rankings I believe Marciano was ranked 3rd with Holmes and Lewis very marginally behind him.

My pick is Marciano (Obviously). Johnson getting more votes a lot quicker than I'd expect. Liston can't be justified as #3rd without factoring H2H. Lewis 3rd feels quite steep. Holmes is a solid pick. Even though his era, opposition, and purposely not fighting some legitimate contenders (With some reasoning) he still has 48 straight wins with the 2nd most title defenses. However, I still rank Foreman ahead of him and he's more deserving to be ranked ahead of Holmes in my book. Even if you like factoring H2H I think a case can be made. Foreman gets underrated and overlooked mainly because his boxing skills are largely discredited and mostly looked down upon and his status as a HW champion is almost a dark glimmer on what boxing should be for the purists of the sport. His resume, accomplishments, and destruction of ATG fighters makes Liston demolishing over Patterson look like childs play. However, Liston cleaned up the division which is largely where his greatness comes from.

If anyone wants to know what my criteria is for ranking Heavyweights just ask.

 

I honestly can't see anyone stopping Holmes in his prime. He was resourceful, intelligent and had some of the best powers of recovery I have seen in any weight.

 

Louis is my number 4 actually ,I think Dempsey stops him H to H, but to answer your question I would say Johnson, though I would have him at no2, I prefer to watch Dempsey, he is my favourite but he is no 3.

 

Larry Holmes showed great movemnent in his '78 fight with Shavers and his '82 fight with Cooney............. That is a good depiction there, cause it spans "4" years......... Holmes had very good legs with speed.... Anyone who calls Holmes a plodder is high as a kite................ Holmes even showed leg speed at age 33 against Spoon in 1983........... 'Twas a great title fight for the 80s.......

Okay, sure, Ol' Liston would land some punches since he was a damn good fighter, but Holmes is still better and superior as a ring general...... Liston is NOT beating Holmes............. NO WAY!!
:bart

MR.BILL