Thirty NineYears Old Two Years Retired Fitz versus Prime Liston,Frazier,&Tyson

Tyson was shot to hell when he fought McBride and Williams, and was way past it when he fought Lewis though.

 

And Frazier fought arguably the hardest puncher in history and kept on getting up

 

I get you but the results may not have been too competitive ...

 

Can't disagree with any of this.

 

I think the difference is a prime Tyson fought world class massive punchers like ruddock, Bruno, bone crusher taking flush punches from them and beating them...it took 40 fights and hundreds of flush punches for 10 rounds from a 230lb man to finally put Tyson on the canvas. Frazier was floored in his 2nd pro fight by a 199lb club fighter, and floored twice and nearly stopped by a 205lb bonavena

It's not that Frazier couldn't beat a world class puncher, it's just that he never did.

The world class big punchers of the era were foreman, Liston, Martin, Lyle, shavers, M Foster. It would have been interesting to see if Frazier could have walked though their best punches and beaten them. Frazier did well against common opponents of some of these men, however this is a matter of styles.

Frazier was a come forward pressure fighter. He annihilated any boxer types or medium level punchers. But how would he do against a big man who could really hit and had some skills?

The only one we saw Frazier with, foreman, bounced him up and down like a yo yo.

The closest match here was manual Ramos, but he was a second rater not on the level of the men above. Bugner and Mathis were close to world class big men, but neither man could crack an egg.

Again, not saying Frazier couldn't do it. He just never did. It's a shame yank Durham didn't match him vs Liston in the late 60s

 

Nicely put Q. You know I'm inclined to think Joe could and would but yes I do see your point when clarified this way.

 

I think joe would have as well especially the prime 67-71 Joe ... Lyle would have been a dangerous matchup for a past his prime Frazier in 74-75

 

39 years old, 2 year retirement comeback? Maybe in a street fight out on the parking lot...where he gets the first shots in. Otherwise, he has little, or no chance in the ring against:
Sonny Liston
Joe Frazier
Mike Tyson

 

Had he beaten Liston in the late 60s, many would discount it as Liston being "old". Outside of Foreman, I think a better tale would have been told if he fought Shavers, Lyle or Foster.

 

Frazier had a terrific chin .. to keep getting up against Foreman showed that .. he did fight Bonavena, a very good puncher, Chuvalo, a very good puncher, Quarry , a very good puncher as well as Ramos .. he also walked through Ellis who was able to drop Bonavena twice and through Foster, a light heavyweight and we all know not a heavyweight killer but a dangerous puncher at any size. He also took dozens of Ali's best shots when many others like Foreman and Lyle could not. When you factor Joe's chin you have to factor his impaired vision along with his swarming style ...

 

I would make all of them favorite over him, but I think that he would have given them hell.

 

Janitor why would he have given them a very hard time?
He was declined by then due to age & inactivity, even if not by that much.
And he was 165 lbs. right?
However hard he could hit for his size, you think he could absorb the blows of Liston or Tyson very well?
Tyson is too fast, Liston hits extremely hard & can take punches, maybe Frazier gets caught more & is vulnerable to a big puncher...But could he possibly have hit harder than say Julian Jackson?
Few great swarmers would be pushed too hard by guys several weight classes below them.

 

No, I wouldn't give him much chance at all against prime Liston, Frazier or Tyson.
The best Jeffries-sized fighter I'd see out-of-retirement Fitz beating might be someone like Pinklon Thomas.
The best Jeffries-sized fighter I'd see prime absolute Fitz beating might be someone like Baer.

 

That is all that he would need to be!

We honestly don't know.

There were no official weigh ins back then, and his opponents accused him of deliberately under reporting his weight.

I suspect that he was a light heavyweight by then.

Looking at fight reports, for his second fight with Jeffries, is more than interesting.

He seems to have thrown his normal game out of the window, and basically used a hit and run strategy.

Some observers described him as "fighting more like Corbett!"

So yes, he probably could have given those men some problems!