Your not wrong in what you are saying Stoo, but most of PRIDE fighters did not get their start in the ufc including many you mentioned: Oleg, wand, ruas, kerr(I assume Yarborough was a joke) meaning they could have just fought outside the ufc until the creation of PRIDE FC. Their were other orgs out there in Japan and Brazil a few around the world. Many others like Igor vovchanchyn, Rickson,Renzo, Royler, Akira Shoji, Fujita, ect never fought in the ufc (renzo fought in the ufc long after the demise of PRIDE). PRIDE would have been able to stack their cards without the help of guys that made their name in the ufc early days. Remember branko cikatic(K-1 gp champ 93) in PRIDE 2? they would later continue with Mirko and mark hunt. The UFC was not the genisis of MMA, it was as Rek stated the org that first gave MMA a world stage. It is impossible to know what the global MMA scene would have looked if their were no UFC, but as far as in Japan in 1997 the influence was minor compared to the influence of pro wrestling and Japanese MMA (Pancrase, Shooto, and Rings).
Agree'd there fella, the Vale Tudo events in Brazil were also a big part of the early NHB scene and most guys started there first, like Kerr, Randleman, Chuck and so on Pancrase is often overlooked sometimes as well, but the lines were very blurred between what was a work and what was a shoot
I think that Japanese pro wrestling, Pancrase, etc made Japan have an immediate fan base for post UFC I mma. I don't think anyone makes the step to do PRIDE rules mma without the first few UFCs. Outside of Brazil, was that sort of competition going on anywhere? It was like other places were toying with the idea, but never fully committing to it. Grappling was not taken nearly as seriously by the martial arts world as it should have been. There were tons of competitions, bust most of the rules revolved around striking. The first few UFCs were a revelation to the martial arts world. No one could hang with Royce at that time. Shamrock and Ichihara would have held a considerable edge in grappling skills against most anyone in the world outside of bjj practitioners and elite caliber wrestlers. Royce made them look like beginners. Severn was almost twice Royce's size at UFC IV, had more credentials as a wrestler than Royce had a bjj practitioner, and still fell victim. Without Royce winning those tournaments, I don't think Rickson would have become as big of a deal outside of Brazil. Without Rickson becoming a big deal, there would be no intrigue in seeing him in action by Japanese fight fans. UFCs I-IV are probably the most globally significant events to occur in the martial arts world regardless of the number of viewers they had.
There is no doubt that without pro-wrestling there would never of been Pride FC or MMA in Japan. Pro-wrestling in Japan and MMA are different branches on the same tree. Pride raided RINGS for fighters.
Its funny that you say your first post wasnt serious and just to get a rise out of monoro then make two more posts saying the same thing just not mentioning fedor. Fedor, who's first MMA match was in Rings. Maybe Japanese MMA had more of an influence than the ufc did to fedor. is that possible? I think your forgetting the feud that japan had with the gracies that far pre-dates UFC 1. Nobuhiko Takada fought Rickson Gracie because he was the best of the Gracie family it had everything to do with that feud and wasnt about Royce. I dont know where your getting your theory that royce's popularity is what made Takada vs Rickson. Why not royce vs takada then? If PRIDE 1 had been just about a big headliner Takada could have just fought someone else(he was the star) their were other MMA fighters in japan before the ufc. guys like Ken shamrok and Bas Rutten who fought before in the first Pancrase. K-1 was huge at that time Takada could have fought a kickboxing star they may have ended up being better fights anyway if it was just about a big fight. unlearn this ufc centrist nonsense rek, your a lot smarter than this(and one of my fav posters on this section). Pancrase Rings and Shooto all existed before UFC 1. they would have existed in spite of the ufc. JMMA was never about the ufc.
yes. look at sakuraba, even though he fought in the ufc japan, his path to MMA was through pro wrestling. the skills he learned the showmanship, sakuraba would have been a star with or without the ufc. Though the matchup with Royce would have been different...
I did not say I wasn't serious. My main objective was to **** with morono. I realize the UFC of today is not the same UFC created by Rorion. The UFC has been sold and bought out. I don't care about that. I just have a feeling morono does. I think morono hates everything UFC, regardless of who was running the show. RINGS was a professional wrestling organization until 1995. That was well after UFC I. Rickson may have been known as the Gracie's best fighter in Brazil, but the rest of the world did not know who he was. After the first few UFCs, Royce was all the rage. When Royce informed people that Rickson was the best in the family, people paid attention. I am not a ufc centrist, unless you are referring to the early days. I will repeat, the first few UFCs were a revelation to the fight world. The first few UFCs were the most important events, that I know of, in martial arts history.
I don't know if this is relevent to the argument so sorry if I'm picking up the wrong end of the stick, but in Japan Martial sports have always been big even before any modern form of MMA. Martila arts are a huge part of their national identitiy, history, culture and spirit. Look at the innovation in the 60s and 70s of kickboxing, the numbers that Katate and sumo competions used to bring in the 60s and 70s. They don't pigeon hole and catergoize fight sports like we do in the west. They view them as variations on the same thing as one of the fellas earlier said "different branches of the same tree". Modern style MMA ws inevitable in Japan more than any counrty in the world! Thier love of boxing, wrestling, kickboxing, MT, Karate, Sumo etc etc etc and thier nature to experiment and refine was always gonna make the current form MMA happen. In the West with the exception of boxing and maybe wrestling martial sports have always been minority sports and not linked to our cultures except for say fencing?!
well i see your point clearly, however, i thought that stupid white guys did make up much of the wrestling base? i mean overall, of course they arent all stupid, i am stating only stupidish, like compared to other groups ? a little bit stupid ? well ignorant as well i think is a little bit fair ? im a white wrestlin fan and i am just going on me and my buddies so i am generalzing i realize that, all i am saying is that if that is the ONLY point of RACISM against WHITEs that your claiming he is SECRET CODING to conceal his racism/negativity of UNFAIRNESS against whites then that to me simply is not enough truth be told if you say **** like that you should go quote it otherwise your being kinda unfair and maybe your doing that for the wrong reasons and arent even considering it at the time ? now hey this dude could be killing whites by the dozens in his basement for all i know, i simply hope that this one WWE comment is not the only comment that you have quoted him using in numerous posts because if thats the case if i were him i would hunt you down and kill you in my basement,,, im just saying, as well that would only be if i were him and he were a lunitic white killing black mofo, witch i doubt he is as i thought his POST was freaking excellent witch was the whole reason i posted this after reading yours, i thought it was well written, i liked the WWE comments, thought they made good fair sense, fairly stated and confidently stated to back it up but again only with fair expectations put it this way, if i dont find out this guy is a real white hating racist real freakin fast im going to turn black and stop hanging out with my white racist hoodlum friends
