This video tells me Floyd beats Pac all day long

YES...smarter. Manny was, arguably, gifted the fight. Most press row ringside observers (including Ring Magazine) had JMM winning that fight. JMM was giving up ALL physical advantages to Manny...youth (6 years older, at 34 yo), speed, size, power, etc. Yet, he won more rounds than Manny in BOTH of their fights. His heart, and ring intelligence made that possible. He was/is the brainier fighter. While Manny was/is the brawnier fighter.

I think JMM beats the version of ODLH that Manny fought. Hatton too. Cotto, Clottey, and Margo, I am not so sure. Especially not at 37 yo. He is giving up too much size to them. But, Manny is a better athlete than JMM, so these things were possible for him. And he is 6 years younger. But, he is not a smarter fighter than JMM, and he never will be.

I don't know why you keep throwing these fighters into the mix, when it's clear they are not the most skilled or intelligent fighters. Oscar (at one time). But, that is about it. In a P4P sense Marquez is better than all of them.

 

Fair enough. But, if memory serves, JMM took away the right hand. I'm not sure how much better Pac would do, in terms of using a better mix of weapons, because, he has not faced a single opponent, since, who can adjust and adapt as well as JMM.

 

Exactly!

 

The problem pac had with JMM was the footwork. Pac followed him around the ring and didn't cut it off or step to the side to keep JMM in front of him. It was apretty ismple mistake. Roach was telling Pac to move to his right, but Pac just didn't have the intuition at the time. Things have changed . Pac cut the ring off when Cotto got on his bike, stepped to the side and ripped him apart. Keep in mind JMM was also a small guy and had pretty good handspeed. Floyd is taller then Pac which I believe helps Pacquiao because he will have a bigger target in front of him, and Floyd doesn't throw the kinds of combinations that JMM threw either. JMM and Morales both had to back Pacquiao off at times with flurries. It was proven in both fights, even with that version of Pacquiao, you cant just keep him off with one punch. He'll catch up to you eventually. Today's version knows better then to be led around the ring like a pony.And Floyd has no answer for a quick southpaw other then a straight right hand, as he showed against Judah. You aren't gonna beat Pacquiao with one punch.

 

The allegations are related to his sustained physical prowess, having moved up 3 divisions, in a year's time. It's more pronounced because, he is beating up these fighters, while eating their best shots like gummi bears, in these exhibitions where he is marketed as "the little guy". He's not just winning because he is the faster, smarter fighter, as many would expect a smaller fighter moving up that many divisions to do. He has these so-called bigger fighters afraid to engage, at times. However, at the lower weights, in the same year he moved up, he was made to do the "stanky leg" by an aging LW, in JMM.

With that said...he has shown reluctance to take a comprehensive drug test to make a fight worth tens of millions.

I am not saying I agree with the allegations...just answering your question, by looking at it from an accuser's point of view.

Do you think Cotto improved, when he moved up to 154, recently. Or would you surmise that even if he beat some other good 154 lbers, while up at that weight, he would still lose to Pac?

 

Yah JMM won twice, even if one the judge admitted a mistake detrimental to pacman during their first fight hence the draw. atsch

And why wouldn't I mix the fighter pacman fought at higher weight into the folly?

When you keep bringing Marquez into the picture?

Pacman fought bums?

JMM and Floyd are gods! Is that it?

Your first god lost to pacman, while the other is demanding a drug test. :rofl

Try harder.

 

Juan Manuel Marquez again?

Can't you even bring a different perspective into the table?

Is it always JMM for you guys?

sustained physical prowess?

Pacman KO percentage went down significantly when he move up.

Accusers point of view?

What happened to rule of law?

Pacman has the burden of proof?

Cotto? Why would I bother explaing it to you when you've been discrediting the guy all day long.

Do you really believe I can convince you?

 

JMM won twice in the eyes of MOST ringside observers. But, those were close fights, which leave room for interpretation. And they were close for reasons I have been, exhaustively, explaining to you. Yet, you fail to give JMM his due credit, and instead make excuses for your father...pacman.

We have been debating about JMM for the longest, in this thread.

You are bringing up Pac's 147 opponents to explain away the complications he had, and would, presumably, still have, against a smaller fighter, in JMM. Styles make fights.

Pac has been facing fighters who are inferior, P4P, to JMM, since 6/2008 (starting with Diaz).

None of the rest of this warrants a response...

 

JMM won twice??? What credit? JMM lost to a crude pacman, accept it man. That sore losser have been bitching pacman eversince. :rofl

Aw inferior to JMM? Baby wanna cry.

You can't even identify boxers improvement in skill, and you failed to realize that pacmans only agenda was to land that left hand during his stint at the lower weight.

The rest doesn't warrant response? You can't even understand the burden of proof in the court of law.

So if I accuse of something the the burden of proof is on you?

Try harder next time.

 

That was a response to someone else. But, since you you responded.

First of all who are "you guys"?

"Sustained physical prowess"...as in carrying both his speed and power up with him, with either increased or comparable stamina.

Don't worry...your father is protected by the "rule of law". No one has the "burden of proof". It was an allegation...not an investigation. Pac was the only one attempting to bring the law into it.

I'm not discrediting anyone. But, you can attempt to provide an explanation if you want. I'm not expecting to be enlightened.

What are you really trying to convince me of? That Pac is a completely different fighter, than he was against JMM in 2008...and that metamorphosis occured in either 6/2008 (against Diaz), 12/2008 (against ODLH), or 5/2009 (against Hatton)? You cannot convince me of that.

 

Sorry but I was not even trying to convince you.

I not stupid to even try.

 

Floyd's style is not comparable with Jmm's style.. not even close

 

not a completely different fighter but pac seems to have improved his right hand and movement as he went up in weight. pre jmm2, pac was left hand happy as he has shown against barrera (2nd) and solis.

 

Come on man, Pacquiao for one didn't win the fight in my eyes and most people's eyes
http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=264511 (there should be a curve for *******s voting)
Even if you had Manny winning it wasn't from him being smarter, it's from him being physically better. Do you really think Manny is a smarter fighter than Marquez?
Also no Marquez couldn't beat all of Manny's opponents, but styles make fights and Marquez has a better chance at beating Manny than Margarito does, but Marquez isn't going to beat Margo

 

Who was/is higher on the P4P list, since Pac moved up? ODLH, Hatton, Clottey, Margarito, Cotto, or JMM? They were (and still are) considered inferior to JMM, in a P4P sense, when Pac faced them. Correct me if I am wrong. This seems to be flying over your head.


Roach (and others) said Manny was no longer a 1 hand fighter, prior to the fight JMM rematch. This is documented. Please...do your research. I don't see a different fighter, since that fight. I see, basically, the same fighter, skill-wise, against lesser skilled, opposition. Marquez, basically, took the right hand ("Manila ice") away from Manny in the second fight.


You are confusing your arguments. Go back and read my post and you will understand the context of that statement ("the rest doesn't warrant response")

"Burden of proof" is not the issue. As I said, allegations were made. No investigation was requested or conducted.