Thomas Hearns is a Greater fighter than Marvin Hagler

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Joeywill, Jun 26, 2023.


  1. Joeywill

    Joeywill Boxing Addict Full Member

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    No way !! He was really serious about fighting Mike Tyson ? That's crazy
     
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  2. Dynamicpuncher

    Dynamicpuncher Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Agreed not to take anything away from Hearns's win over Hill which was impressive. But you have to look at it with some context, the division at that time was pretty lackluster. Hill was not a big puncher nor was he a very aggressive fighter, apart from a few surprising nights like when he finished off Kinchen quick. But for the most part he would go the distance relying on his very good left jab, in all honesty Hill could be quite a boring fighter for the most part.

    So all in all Hill was quite a favourable match up for Hearns, again this is not to discredit Hearns's win which was as I said very impressive. But the difference is Spinks is an ATG puncher at Light Heavyweight, and Qawi was an absolute menace for the few years that he was dominant at Light Heavyweight.

    So whilst Hearns wouldn't be scared of Qawi, Spinks, like I said. He and his team would know they're not favourable matchups for Hearns, where as Hill was probably seen as a more beatable opponent for him based on styles.
     
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  3. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    Before the 1980s, successfully jumping weight and winning world titles in more than one division was pretty unusual. Leaving aside Henry Armstrong’s amazing feats in the 30s, there were only a few 3-weight world champions and those included guys like Tony Canzoneri and Barney Ross, who, as great as they were, stopped off at light-welter (Canzoneri was featherweight and lightweight champ; Ross was lightweight and welterweight champ) to pick up the extra strap.

    Remember, Alexis Arguello would have become the first 4-weight world champ in 1982 had he beaten Aaron Pryor. Now, there are multiple four (or more) weight world champs. Is that because the fighters got better since the 80s or because it’s easier to win world titles now? That’s a rhetorical question, of course.

    Hearns caught the beginning of that change, when title straps per division went from 2 to 3 and then 4 and the introduction of betweener weight classes like super middleweight took place and he benefitted from that.

    Simply put, being an undisputed world champ and dominating your division is more impressive to me than what Hearns achieved. People only accuse Hagler of playing it safe through the prism of our weight-jumping era.

    But Hagler was old school. He valued the championship he held, was the perfect fit for his division and maintained the same attitude and high standards in his performances for years. Before anyone says ‘his middleweight era was weak’, it really wasn’t. There was fierce competition below him for the no. 1 contender spot but Hagler just batted them back.

    He was one of those rare champions, like Duran, Monzon and Joe Louis before him who fought his best challengers and was just that much better than them. His was one of the ten best title reigns in history.

    That’s why I rate him above Hearns. And I’m a massive Hearns’ fan.
     
  4. Joeywill

    Joeywill Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I understand your point about the many weight classes but Hearns was and still is the only fighter to win the Welterweight, Middleweight, and Light Heavyweight titles (actually did it out of order winning the Light Heavyweight title before the Middleweight title.) and those titles have been around since the beginning.

    So its not like he wasnt winning world titles in the historical divisions.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2023
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  5. Greg Price99

    Greg Price99 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Outstanding post Jel. I agree with every word.
     
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  6. Flash24

    Flash24 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    On point as usual JT. If Hearns had Godzilla in the opposite corner he'd fight it.
    Hearns wouldn't avoid anyone in a boxing ring. If Qawi or Spinks or Charles, Foster , Moore or any great Lt Heavy was there when he grew into the division, he would've fought him.
     
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  7. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    Yeah, I’m not suggesting he cherry picked his way to those titles but he undeniably benefited from the split titles. Or put another way, he was two wins away from being undisputed welterweight and undisputed middleweight world champion which would have put things in a wholly different perspective. But he lost those huge fights with Leonard and Hagler. No shame in that at all but it does impact his legacy.

    So when he picked up the middleweight title it was in the post-Hagler era and he beat Juan Roldan - a tough fighter for sure, but Hearns was one of three titlists with no greater claim than the other two.

    I know I’m sounding quite harsh by being critical of him picking up titles and not undisputed titles and, in truth, his ability to go from welter to light heavyweight picking up titles in all those divisions was fantastic. But losing the two biggest fights of his career, which were for the undisputed titles does impact him, particularly when compared to Hagler, who was one of the two to beat him (and he beat him well).

    But, and this is something that should always be remembered about him, he never ducked anyone and he dared to be great. And that counts for a lot.
     
  8. Flash24

    Flash24 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Excellent point Jel.
    Sometimes when a boxer dominates his division the way Hagler, Louis,and Monzon did, Some have the tendency to assume the division was weak.
    That's not always the case, especially during Hagler's championship run.
    There was some outstanding fighters that probably would've won a championship if Hagler wasn't the champ .
    Aaron Pryor also is a little underrated because of this fact . And the "magic bottle " theory.
     
  9. surfinghb

    surfinghb Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Hell of a post !! spot on
     
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  10. surfinghb

    surfinghb Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Because there H2H fight is pretty much the answer to this thread .. If Hearns won, there is no thread no discussion.. But Hagler bombed him out in one of most exciting " short " fights ever .. So it doesn't really matter that Hearns went up and beat Hill because he couldn't get past Marvin at 160... So it centers around fighting all comers defending your weight for as long as he did, consistency and title defenses ... And for that Hagler gets the nod, when comparing theses 2 directly .. see Jels posts .. he just said it way better than I did before
     
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