Thomas Hearns vs Pernell Whitaker At 147

But talking about Chavez post-Whitaker doesn't tell the whole story. He lost his cloak of invincibility that night and was never the same again after being outclassed- something some (including me) but not all, thought would happen if he took on Whitaker at light, light-welter OR welterweight. He went back down from 147 as he realised he was no match for the main guy at the weight anyway, so we'll never know. But the idea that it would have been some great achievement had he beat another champ, like say, Gert Bo Jacobsen for the WBO crown, wouldn't particularly impress me, it would just tell me that he knew he couldn't beat the best in that division (like Duran in 83).

 

Spot on mate. Good to see you're still posting.

Oh yeah definitely. And I still need to know who 'yellow' top guy going berserk is at ringside, when Tommy's dominating round 1 and delivering the pay-off in round 2. He's the double of Don Curry.

 

Thanks! One of the best thing in years in this forum to see you posting again.

 

I think overall wins over Hill, Benitez, Leonard, Duran, Cuevas, trumps any of Whitaker's best wins by quite some margin, especially in the manner in which Hearns destroyed Cuevas, Duran.

But does Whitaker have better career overall because of his lack of KO losses in his prime ? Well that depends on how you see it.

 

I agree. But what I responded to was a comparison between Chavez-Whitaker and Leonard-Hearns 2.

Yes, that's a tricky one. I don't understand those that can do p4p rankings with high confidence. To me there's just so many parameters that go into it. And Hearns is one of the trickiest ones. Because as you say, how much damage do his losses do compared to his amazing wins?

 

Thanks DP. All fair points.

I agree JCC wasn't a natural WW & that he didn't do anything remarkable there. Both those points apply, arguably even more so, to SRL at SMW.

I think we're broadly on the same page here, given your responses to my 2 x questions.

As I've said previously in this thread - 1) I'd heavily favour prime Hearns to beat any version of Whitaker at 147lbs; and 2) I personally rank Whitaker a little higher on my P4P ATG list, though have no problem with someone ranking Hearns the higher of the 2, reasonable arguments can be made for both, imo.

 

Yeah, Whitaker fought a title fight at 140 a year earlier so he'd probably come down there again and do the same thing to Chavez.

And that fighters aren't the same after the cloak of invincibility have been stripped from them isn't that uncommon. Curry comes to mind as does Hamed, and Toney had a long fairly bad spell after being shown up by Jones. Foreman didn't seem quite the same again after Zaire. To name some examples.

 

Without joining the debate or even proffering an opinion it's worth noting just how ridiculous the top 10 P4P were at Benitez' time vs Chavez.

I'm trying to remember how the 10 went at that time, used to know it off by heart but there was just so many strong names. I remember guys like Sanchez only just finding the bottom of the 10 at points.

SRL retired a month prior to Hearns - Benitez but still would have been #1. Hagler and Holmes would have been top 5, Arguello too. I don't think spinks was as he was sharing glory with Braxton/Qawi (Braxton being Ring champ) and they were in the second half i believe. Trying to think of the fifth ahead of Benitez. Gomez lost lustre losing the Sal and was a bottom half guy thereafter. Chandler was tail end. Benitez may well have been #5'ish even counting Leonard. Back to my point tho, am immense top #5 and #10 comparative to the Julio era.

 

Decent point mate, in 1981 when KO did its very first pfp list (something they would do monthly by late 1984) Benitez was ranked behind Gomez. Leonard, Hearns, Hagler & Arguello, a very strong list, yes better than the 93 list but that still had the likes of Chavez, Toney, Jones, Lopez, Holyfield & Canizales in it. The thing is, for me Whitaker was the best pfp fighter in boxing for around 5 years, something Hearns never was. Yes, Tommy's era was a bit stronger but he did he the chance to usurp those pfp top guys- and lost to both of them. That's probably why I rate Whitaker higher (although not much in it).

 

Yeah Gomez was belted out of that spot by the time Benitez and Hearns got together. Technically SRL was gone too but many didn't believe that of course. Benitez had a big standing when they fought after that dominant victory over Duran.

Agree Whitaker was an amazing P4P fighter, top 4 lightweight and probably top 25 all time. Hearns would be more 35-50 on most accounts i think.

 

I feel like the androids from Star Trek that they said illogical things to and they made their heads explode. I can't really picture this. I am trying. But I can't do it. I will do it. But I can't do it. But I will do it.

 

...They couldn't process it with their computer brains, even though they look like regular people. They were androids. So it destroyed them.

 

True. But JCC and Pea were still a really, really good 1 and 2. Both unbeaten not counting the Ramirez robbery and had been on top for years, winning titles in multiple divisions. Few close fights. Both were really dominating on either end. How many title wins did they have together across all divisions? Count in the dozens, I'd guess. I struggle to find similar examples through history.

 

Your final paragraph is exactly how I see it John, with the minor exception I have Packey Mcfarland #4 at LW and Whitaker #5.

 

That's fair.