Thomas Hearns VS Pipino Cuevas

Emanuel Steward talked about it at the time. He knew that Cobo Hall (in Detroit) had this issue and that’s why he wanted Hearns in rubber-soled shoes. It wasn’t happenstance.

I agree it’s not his responsibility to tell Pipino’s team.

But try that logic on people who seem to think Ray Leonard got a cheap win because Duran allegedly didn’t train properly for the rematch or because Marvin negotiated to make more money rather than dicker over glove/ring size.

What’s the difference? Why should Ray want to beat people in conditions that favor his opponents while Hearns/Manny get a pass on the same topic?

I am pointing out the difference.

And it’s funny that people dismiss the canvas as ‘well Hearns would have beaten him anyway’ — if that’s the case, why not use leather-soled shoes so it’s equal? He’s going to win anyway, right? Why go for an edge?

 

Ray made Roberto quit.

After completely clowning him.

That’s pretty commanding.

 

Nobody serious about boxing questions Leonard like taking unfair advantage in those fights.

It was already well known SRL would try to improve his odds using every trick in the book, but that is the way the game goes and it was up to Duran and Hagler to be aware of Leonard's tricks.

The truth is Duran and Marvin underestimated Sugar. Duran was reckless and lazy, he balloned, he didnt train properly. Same with Marvin, he got greedy and cocky, his gameplan was ridiculous.

They lost fair and square and they can only blame themselves.

Pipino also lost fair and square, and rubber/leather soles most probably didnt make a difference.

And again, it was not Manny/Tommy's duty to make sure Pipino had proper footwear, his hands were well wrapped, didnt forget his mouth protector, carried his jockstrap, etc.

If you adversary doesnt prepare properly, it is not you fault; more power to you.

 

I think your response underscores exactly my point.

With Leonard, its ‘his tricks’ to ‘improve his odds.’ You basically paint him as conniving and manipulating to gain advantage in a way that makes it seem unfair.

With Pipino, ‘well, that’s his problem if he got lured into an arena in Hearns’ backyard where Manny knew that traction would be a problem and had his guy wear gear to offset that, he’d have lost anyway.’

Why do you see it as Leonard using tricks to stack the deck but with Hearns and Manny you don’t say it was a trick to gain an advantage?

That’s exactly what I’m addressing.

And if you don’t think people who consider themselves serious about boxing don’t dismiss Leonard’s wins over Marvin and Roberto as being the result of him pulling strings to gain unfair advantage … well, go look up threads on those fights. Page after page after page of posters in good standing on this forum stating exactly that. You’d think Leonard stole their wallet and their girlfriend.

 

I remember watching this on CBS when it first took place--was absolutely in awe of Hearns!! (I thought to myself at the time: NOBODY is going to beat this guy!!)

And that mindset cost me $50.00 (which was my bankroll at the time) betting on Hearns to defeat Sugar Ray! I thought for sure Hearns would land a sonic boom right hand and put Leonard's lights out!!

Learned an expensive lesson LMAO!!

 

Cuevas was not going to be competitive with Hearns if he had leather soles, rubber soles or fought in wing tips, Chuck Taylor Converses or friggin’ barefoot. The physical discrepancies were just too great.

 

Hearns just had that ko power, Cuevas maybe his gameplan was to try to see if Hearns could either gas a little or leave himself open to a counter punch?

Either way Hearns a physical freak.

 

I think his gameplan was likely the same as usual, which was to get inside & unload his powerpunches (Hearns' lanky body must've been an inviting target, plus it was well-reported in the press that he had to dry out to make weight). Everything changed once he took that opening left hook & received the shock of his life.

 

Remember Iron Mike’s comment about what happens to plans?

 

LO-****ing-L. The video you used is from a fight at LA Sports Arena.

Before facing Thomas Hearns, Pipino had defended in Chicago, Houston, Sacramento and multiple times in Los Angeles. All ‘normal.’ He won the title in Puerto Rico, right?

In Mexico, the main complaint is dust — it’s dry, not like an ice rink. It can affect breathing, allergies, etc.

There are, and I am simplifying, basically two kinds of canvases you run into in boxing. One is actual canvas, with the rough-hewn ‘cloth’ facing up, which is ‘normal.’ Humidity doesn’t affect it. It doesn’t get slick. The other is more like the plastic side of a tarp facing up, and it gets slippery as hell in humid conditions.

I’ve had guys fight on both. In fact, Greg Serb, longtime Pennsylvania commissioner, came up with a solution that helps — pour a Pepsi over the ring before the fight and mob it around a bit (so it’s not just puddled). Give it time to dry out. Now it’s sticky and people can get traction. Once in Mississippi, I ran into a slick ring and made my case to the commissioner to try it after the first fight looked like baby Bambi vs baby Bambi with two guys who could barely stand up. He did it. It worked.

(Side note: We’ve all seen this where you have a normal canvas but a sponsor has a logo painted in the ring center, and when people get to that part under the right/wrong atmospheric conditions, they slip and slide. Roy Jones Jr vs Sugar Boy Malinga is a prime example. It’s not like this has never happened.)

Cobo had this reputation. Go watch Shavers-Cobb on the undercard and they’re sliding all over the place after a couple rounds and practically hugging to both stay up.

Emanuel knew it and talked about it (after the fight), basically saying it made all the difference to have Hearns in rubber soles. If Steward, one of the greatest trainers in boxing history, who WAS THERE, says it was an advantage, who are you or we or anyone else, to say different?

Because the thing you and others are missing, or do not wish to acknowledge, is that Hearns was able to get traction for those right hands. Cuevas wasn’t. So if Thomas’ right foot was slipping out from under him every time he threw the right, he’s not landing power shots to take Pipino out.

The pushback on this, which was acknowledged by the Hall of Fame trainer of the winner who knew to change shoes from past experience in that building, baffles me.

It’s like people saying ‘yeah, he hit the guy with an anvil and KO’d him but it was in the second round so he’d have easily knocked him out without it.’ SMFH.

 

Agree with every word here. Double standards. People like Tommy, less so Ray, and that's what's guiding the narrative.

The Kronk guys had an advantage. No two ways about it. Fair play to them. But I say fair play to Ray for whatever minor advantages he was able to gain. He did what everyone else did, even the beloved Tommy and Manny.

 

Ya they knew each other well and were great friends since the Ametuers. Kronk guys had no advantage over Ray Leonard, Ray trained there at times for the Olympics and Tommy was Ray's sparring partner when he was getting ready for Floyd Sr. Leonard was just clearly mentally tougher than both Tommy and Marvin and he used it well before getting in the ring with either of them. This is what propeleld Ray over both of them that mental toughness , a la Monzon