Thomas Hearns .Vs. Roy Jones Jr. @ 160.

I'll say this much: Roy Jones Jr. has more apologists than any fighter out here. Easily.

Roy was called "Reluctant Roy" in many quarters by the mid-1990s. It wasn't undeserved.

Roy didn't want to fight Nunn. He offered Nunn $125,000 to his 3 million. He turned down Charles Brewer. Both dangerous fights.

Nunn... Brewer ... then we have Nigel Benn, Frankie

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Chris Eubank, and Steve Collins.

--all of these were active in 95-96 during Roy's prime. Ring Magazine rated these guys and Jones in the top 4 from 94 through 96. But Jones didn't fight them. Perhaps he felt like his work was done after he gave Toney a well-deserved whooping. Jones fought lesser known and lesser regarded nondescripts like Antoine Byrd, Vinnie Paz, Tony Thornton, Eric Lucas, and Bryant Brannon. That is decidely unimpressive considering who he could have fought.

And for those of you who hang your hat on Eubank's respectful comments about his chances against Roy, what the hell do you think the day-jobbers Roy DID fight would have said if anyone even bothered to ask them?

In 1995, arguably his peak year, Jones fought Paz and a mailman. He could have easily faced any number of the men listed above. He chose not to.

Don't get me started on Darius.

In 2000, Tarver finally became a number LHW one contender. Jones had his manager, Murad Muhammad write a letter questioning his credentials to be number one. Read between the lines. Jones didn't want to face Tarver -and didn't for 3 years.

Interesting how he priced himself way out of a Nunn fight. He didn't want to fight

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. It was Roy who wouldn't fight either of them. Roach tried to get both fights. Any insinuation that these guys were somehow equally to blame for not fighting Jones is crazy talk. Jones was the boss. He was the superstar. He called the shots.

Jones was an undeniable powerhouse in the mid 90s at SMW (which is his natural division). He was IBF champion. That's one belt. Why didn't he try to unify the titles? I'll tell you why. Because Benn was WBC champion -not Brannon. Because

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was WBA champion and Roy didn't like

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right hook or his tall southpaw stance. Roy didn't even bother with the WBO belt... Because Collins was champ and Roy knew that Collins was a hard man.

--now, do you really believe that Collins,

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, and Benn would turn down the millions that they would make fighting a superstar like Jones? OR... is it more likely that Jones (armed with his HBO contract which meant guaranteed millions no matter what contender he chose to fight) turned them down because he knew he'd get millions anyway...?

...............
I'd encourage all of those who deny that Roy did in fact avoid a number of deserving challengers over his career to discuss the above at Dunkin Donuts.

"Ya'll musta forgot"

 

I just had to read the first few lines of your post before I started laughing. Charles Brewer and Frankie Liles??? Both were decent fighters, Frankie Liles more so than Brewer (although a completely Don King manufactured champion), but if you think they, along with Nunn, Eubank and Benn were anymore of a threat to Jones than who he faced, its pointless. Im going to back out of this one. :blood

I will add there is a lot of hate in your thread towards Jones and its pretty clear another reason to avoid a big long discussion with you. Your basically saying he moved up to a more dangerous division where the fighters were bigger than him because he wanted to avoid all the 68 champions? It didnt matter that Don King promoted Frankie Lilies, and had an exclusive agreement with Showtime during this time?? King was basically banned from HBO until he got back in with Evander Holyfield. Theres a lot more to what your saying.
Jones also faced a lot of southpaws, more than the average champion, so dogging on him for that is kind of ridiculous.

 

You should back out of it.

And guess what, I would have bet the house that Jones would have beat Liles, Nunn, Brewer, Eubank, and Benn. The point that you are not getting is that Jones should have fought them. He did not, he chose lesser men and --that costs him in terms of legacy, and that forces me to question how he would have handled the kind of hell on wheels that a Hearns would have brought to him.

...Don't ask questions if you are just going to dismiss the answer.

You have a lot of excuses. And don't distort what I'm saying -I surmised that tall, lanky southpaws were problematic for him. This didn't come out of thin air. And you should at least consider it.

I have alot of "hate" in my posts? Shall I be more politically correct or will you file a complaint against me for a "hate crime"?

The fact is, I followed Jones in the Olympics and saw his first professional fight and was a fan. I was absolutely in his corner when he fought Toney, who I was a fan of after he toppled Nunn but lost regard for after Tiberi whipped him. I had high hopes for Jones after that and felt then the way I feel now about Pacquiao --that we were bearing witnessing to developing greatness. What's the difference? Manny seeks to prove it. Jones opted to sit on Toney for 9 years and proclaim his greatness without feeding that notion. He didn't do much between Toney and Ruiz that would validate Max Kellerman's claims that he was as great as Ray Robinson, did he. And I do believe that it was roids that was behind that 20 pound muscle gain when he fought Ruiz. Hell, I watch Jones-Paz and see two guys on the juice!

His career has been a disappointment. And guess what, he all but admitted this. To his credit, he has been taking surprising challenges -Tarver III, Calzaghe, Lacy next week. Do you know why? I do. He's making up for lost time. He said as much.

This part of his career is his redemption -there are no roids and he is fighting against live guys. I'm cheering him on... but I will not rewrite history -nor should you.

 

Why should he have fought them?? What about moving up to Light Heavyweight and winning the titles against a solid group of fighters, all the while making some mandatories in between?? There's more to it than just should have made the fights. Like you said you would have favored Jones, but going up and fighting Mcallum, Johnson, Del Valle, Telesco, Griffen, Hall and Harding certainly erased any doubt in my mind that Jones avoided the fighters you mentioned. I think there is some pretty decent lanky southpaws in that mix as well.
Again Don King promoted Liles and Benn for that matter? Do you remember the boring slots that were filled while Tyson was sitting in jail with countless Fabrice Tiozzo, Frank Liles and Sharmba Mitchell fights? Do you ever recall seeing Benn, Liles, or Eubank fighting on HBO? Don King worked with Frank Warren who promoted most of the fighters in Europe. They fought in Don's slots on Showtime.
Jones was an HBO house fighter. It made more sense to unify at LH because there was less politics and just as good of fighters. He fought often, filled some of his slots with soft touches, but overall its nothing to sneeze at. If you think replacing his LH accomplishments with Nunn Brewer and Liles, would have exhanced his legacy, I think your the only one. If you think he is fighting Lacy because he was some dangerous opponent he would have never faced in his prime to make up for lost time, your nuts!

 

1. Source? havent heard that 1, Nunn is a hard fight
2. Brewer was a sub-par belt holder, he didnt present a danger
3. Benn wanted 15million for the fight and was owned by King who would want Jones to sign his career away
4. Liles didnt want any of Jones, I read something to that affect in the past. Plus another Don King fighter, we know you don't get a shot at Don King fighters without signing with Don
5. Eubank admitted he didnt want any of Jones multiple times. He turned Jones down in the early 90s and 1998.
6. Collins priced himself out wanting 6million for the fight and Jones faced the man who beat him instead, big duck that 1
7. Darius was made an offer and rejected it, he was happy fighting bums in Germany and getting gifts along the way, hardly a duck move, Darius would lose to Gonzalez who Roy shut out
8. Pure lies now, Tarver hadn't even faced and beat a top 10 opponent until 2002 the year before they actually fought, he didnt avenge his loss to Harding until 12months before Joens fought him
9. We believe they all priced themselves out of the fights
10. Jones wasnt actually that big a draw but your right no fighter in history is going to bother taking a harder fight for the same money such as Hearns who faced inferior fighters to McCallum in making his way

As you mentioned not all fights are going to happen, boxing is about risk-reward and making money. Jones still cleaned out all the best 175lb division, minus Darius and he also beat the man who would reign after him

 

Jones did want to make Tarver prove himself before he fought him. The fight with Harding was made and Tarver lost. Thats what blew his chances at Jones Jr earlier.

 

Did all his other opponents have to prove themselves in this way?

 

No because they were beltholders or already rated. Tarver if you remember had a very big mouth with little to back it up at the time. Losing to Harding didnt help his cause. :good Tarver had 16 fights

 

Good article here on Jones. If he had retired after beating Ruiz be would have been a top 15 "pound for pound" of all-time?

http://www.thesweetscience.com/boxing-article/7085/roy-jones-keeps-fighting-forget/